Official 2007-08 Vancouver Canucks Season Thread

[Toppy Vann]

Gillis said the Canuck coach had a "sub-standard" team to coach last year plus the other things that the others have posted.

Quite clearly other GMs in the NHL club liked Dave Nonis and felt that the Canucks were doing a creditable job and had a pretty good team given the opportunities teams have to acquire new players.

Maybe the hockey teams should hold free agent try out camps like the Lions does hoping to find some undrafted guys no one knows about. We all know they don't do this and can't do this as players are drafted at 18 and locked up so they are someone's property so there are no Ryan Phillips or Buck Pierce walk ons.

Dumping Nonis for the sake of appearing to be doing something is plain stupid. Hiring a guy with no other interviews is dumber. Most owners with a half brain would have interviewed a number of prospective candidates and found out from these guys what their views are of what the Canucks need to do to improve and how and where and also how they could add value to the team. Even if the owner had Gillis in mind from the get go, this data gathering stage can be highly helpful in evaluating your candidate and putting a plan in place that doesn't look knee jerk like giving 37 year old Sundin looks. I heard Blake Price I think it was say that hockey players think the Canucks offer is ridiculous and question why Sundin would be paid more than Crosby or Ovechkin to name just a couple of top players. Sundin hasn't seen 90 points since 1997 or so. 80 is fine but is it worth 10 million and the guy is no hurry to make a deal meaning that if he does play this offer is what he will ask others to give him.

[Lion Guy]

Not blaming; more like putting him down in order to get people (fans) on his side. Regardless of how I took it it would seem on the surface that it is EXACTLY how other GM's around the league took it.

How did he "put Nonis down"? How does holding the opinion that the team isn't cup contender, automatically make the leap in logic to "putting down the previous GM"?

Funny how so many FANS (and a number of media) were quite blatantly putting Nonis down, and now with the off-season not even half over, free agency just barely started, and not a single game to show the fruits of his labour, they've jumped to putting Gillis down and wishing for Nonis back.

Such people need to seriously give their heads a shake, and maybe take up watching croquet instead of hockey.

I am not a fan per se, and I do prefer to watch almost anything except hockey these days, but I am entitled to an opinion. Because of the omnipresence of Canuck information in this town one can't help but follow along with the "interesting" stuff - trades, firings etc. I just think that a good man lost his job for no apparent reason. No big deal, happens every day, but usually you replace something with something better. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but that's just my opinion; it appears though that my opinion is shared somewhat from what I hear.

[Soundy]

Maybe the hockey teams should hold free agent try out camps like the Lions does hoping to find some undrafted guys no one knows about. We all know they don't do this and can't do this as players are drafted at 18 and locked up so they are someone's property so there are no Ryan Phillips or Buck Pierce walk ons.

They'd have to get that into the CBA first.

Dumping Nonis for the sake of appearing to be doing something is plain stupid.

It was widely speculated that the Aquilinis NEVER liked how Nonis worked, and probably would have ditched him immediately upon obtaining full ownership of the team, but instead either decided to give him a chance first, or just wanted to wait until the court case was finished. I hardly think it was done "for the sake of appearing to be doing something."

Hiring a guy with no other interviews is dumber.

Sure it is. How do you know that's what Aquilini did?

Most owners with a half brain would have interviewed a number of prospective candidates and found out from these guys what their views are of what the Canucks need to do to improve and how and where and also how they could add value to the team.

And again, how do you know this wasn't done? Granted, the media in this town are pretty good at sniffing out these goings-on (and if the can't sniff any, some will make them up), but just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I heard Blake Price I think it was say that hockey players think the Canucks offer is ridiculous and question why Sundin would be paid more than Crosby or Ovechkin to name just a couple of top players.

Maybe because Crosby and Ovechkin are still under their entry contracts and are grossly UNDERpaid right now?

Sundin hasn't seen 90 points since 1997 or so. 80 is fine but is it worth 10 million and the guy is no hurry to make a deal meaning that if he does play this offer is what he will ask others to give him.

He's also NEVER played less than 70 games in a season in his NHL career (lockout-shortened 94-95 season excluded) and has been better-than-a-point-a-game for the past three years.

[Soundy]

I am not a fan per se, and I do prefer to watch almost anything except hockey these days, but I am entitled to an opinion. Because of the omnipresence of Canuck information in this town one can't help but follow along with the "interesting" stuff - trades, firings etc. I just think that a good man lost his job for no apparent reason. No big deal, happens every day, but usually you replace something with something better. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but that's just my opinion; it appears though that my opinion is shared somewhat from what I hear.

The point is, NOBODY has enough information yet to know if that's the case. The off-season isn't even halfway through - we don't even have training camp to base the state of the current team on, let alone pre-season games, let alone games that actually MATTER - and there are still two months for more moves to be made before TC gets underway... three months before the season actually begins.

To put it more in perspective for you: it would be kind of (not exactly, I know) like the grief Alouette management must have been getting from the fans and the media for bringing in an unknown, untested, unfamiliar head coach who had never coached a CFL game, or CFL-style football. No doubt, they were called idiots all through the off-season, but nobody had any way to know how the guy would actually work out. Well so far, he's off to a good start.

I'd think it would be fair to allow Gillis AT LEAST one game with the team he finally assembles, before writing him off, no?

What really gets me are that a lot of the people who are now wanting Nonis back, were the same ones that were calling for his head just a few short months ago.

[Lion Guy]

I am not a fan per se, and I do prefer to watch almost anything except hockey these days, but I am entitled to an opinion. Because of the omnipresence of Canuck information in this town one can't help but follow along with the "interesting" stuff - trades, firings etc. I just think that a good man lost his job for no apparent reason. No big deal, happens every day, but usually you replace something with something better. That doesn't seem to be the case here, but that's just my opinion; it appears though that my opinion is shared somewhat from what I hear.

The point is, NOBODY has enough information yet to know if that's the case. The off-season isn't even halfway through - we don't even have training camp to base the state of the current team on, let alone pre-season games, let alone games that actually MATTER - and there are still two months for more moves to be made before TC gets underway... three months before the season actually begins.

To put it more in perspective for you: it would be kind of (not exactly, I know) like the grief Alouette management must have been getting from the fans and the media for bringing in an unknown, untested, unfamiliar head coach who had never coached a CFL game, or CFL-style football. No doubt, they were called idiots all through the off-season, but nobody had any way to know how the guy would actually work out. Well so far, he's off to a good start.

I'd think it would be fair to allow Gillis AT LEAST one game with the team he finally assembles, before writing him off, no?

What really gets me are that a lot of the people who are now wanting Nonis back, were the same ones that were calling for his head just a few short months ago. [/quote]

Agreed, but I wasn;t one of them. Gillis came in arrogantly, at least that was my interpretation, shooting off his mouth about "sweeping changes". So far, nothing...........that's all I'm saying.

What was that saying about first imptessions?

If the team does well, then good for him. If they stink, look out.

[Soundy]

The real irony of it is, the main knock on Gillis is that he came into it with "zero experience" as a GM... coming from a group who collectively have - wait for it - zero experience as GMs.

What was the arrogant part, anyway? When he said he wanted to build a winner? What GM doesn't? When he said he didn't think the current team was good enough? A lot of people didn't - he was asked the question, he gave it a straight answer. Was he supposed to bull$#!t his way through the Q&A? Or mumble into his chin and deflect questions the way Nonis always did?

The only impression that matters is how the team performs on the ice, and that's still months away.

[Toppy Vann]

Maybe the hockey teams should hold free agent try out camps like the Lions does hoping to find some undrafted guys no one knows about. We all know they don't do this and can't do this as players are drafted at 18 and locked up so they are someone's property so there are no Ryan Phillips or Buck Pierce walk ons.

They'd have to get that into the CBA first.

Dumping Nonis for the sake of appearing to be doing something is plain stupid.

It was widely speculated that the Aquilinis NEVER liked how Nonis worked, and probably would have ditched him immediately upon obtaining full ownership of the team, but instead either decided to give him a chance first, or just wanted to wait until the court case was finished. I hardly think it was done "for the sake of appearing to be doing something."

Hiring a guy with no other interviews is dumber.

Sure it is. How do you know that's what Aquilini did?

Most owners with a half brain would have interviewed a number of prospective candidates and found out from these guys what their views are of what the Canucks need to do to improve and how and where and also how they could add value to the team.

And again, how do you know this wasn't done? Granted, the media in this town are pretty good at sniffing out these goings-on (and if the can't sniff any, some will make them up), but just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I heard Blake Price I think it was say that hockey players think the Canucks offer is ridiculous and question why Sundin would be paid more than Crosby or Ovechkin to name just a couple of top players.

Maybe because Crosby and Ovechkin are still under their entry contracts and are grossly UNDERpaid right now?

Sundin hasn't seen 90 points since 1997 or so. 80 is fine but is it worth 10 million and the guy is no hurry to make a deal meaning that if he does play this offer is what he will ask others to give him.

He's also NEVER played less than 70 games in a season in his NHL career (lockout-shortened 94-95 season excluded) and has been better-than-a-point-a-game for the past three years.

Huh?!!! If you read what I said with any care you'd note that I was being facetious about free agent camps but mentioning it to note that it is not that easy to change an NHL roster player like CFL teams who can find diamonds in the rough who have not been tied up in an NHL style draft. Gillis has made lots of big claims about changing things here but the reality is that it is very hard to do no matter what money there is out there. I just think he is as wrong for this franchise at this time as Wally Buono and Bobby Ackles were right hires for the Lions organization.

If you have listened to the Lions owner David Braley on what he credits the Lions' success to and it is this:

Two hires.

Wally Buono as GM and HC to get the on field product right.
Bobby Ackles to rebuild the Lions with the media, sponsors and fans.

As far as how do I know if Aquilini interviewed others as I have suggested would be the smart way to have gone do the math.
Nonis fired April 15. Gillis hired April 23. Now maybe you can get a job as an assistant burger chef at McDonalds that quick but that is not what happened with the Canucks. If you have ever hired any at senior levels you will find that one week to hire is a bit on the too quick side. It appears Soundy you are not in favour of interviews but that is how smart owners do things especially when it comes to key leadership positions.

Owners statement in the Globe on April 15: "However, I think this important change in leadership is critical to the future of the team and the direction we need to take," said Aquilini, who was in Europe on non-hockey-related business when the Canucks ended the regular season with an embarrassing 7-1 loss to the Calgary Flames. "It's not acceptable to our fans or to us as owners that our team isn't in the playoffs.

"As owners we made a commitment to deliver the kind of hockey our fans deserve. At the same time, with leadership comes responsibility. So our search begins today for a new general manager, and our focus going forward is on a winning season in 2008-09."

The Canucks screwed up the final 8 games and Luongo in the net was as guilty as any player leading some to believe that he was allowed to play too many games and was fatigued by year-end making errors uncharacteristic of an NHL goalee and certainly one of the calibre of Luongo is a sure bet to be Hockey's Hall of Fame if he continues to play like he did up to year end last season. Over playing Luongo is the fault first off of the HC. Secondly, the GM should have provided some wisdom and counsel on that matter to avoid what happened. A too tired goalee who played his worst when even average would have got them to the play offs. I guess if Aquilini owned the Lions, the GM would have been canned and the circus would be running the franchise. Oh right, we had that in Lions history when Joe Kapp was brought in along with Kuharich and oh yes, Joe Galat's era. I still have that bumper sticker Fire Galat. Those were great days.

BTW, the fans are bailing on the Sundin deal faster than Gillis could make the offer. Sundin is in no hurry to decide and will use this offer to get the teams in the East to pay him more as he is not about to come west at this stage of his career when he go to more travel friendly cities to play and make the same money. Yesterday 1040 was saying that other players are laughing at the offer and not as you suggest because Crosby and Ovechkin are underpaid.

via TSN, a statement from Mats Sundin :

“I would like to thank all the teams who have expressed such sincere interest in my services.

“The numerous options provided to me were impressive and I have no doubt that each one presented a unique opportunity for me to finish my career in a terrific hockey environment.

“I spent a great deal of time yesterday reflecting upon the teams who stepped forward and the opportunities that each provided. Unfortunately, I am simply not close to being ready to make a decision about resuming my career at this time.

“I wish all the teams the very best and thank them for their interest.”

[Soundy]

[quote="Toppy Vann"
As far as how do I know if Aquilini interviewed others as I have suggested would be the smart way to have gone do the math.
Nonis fired April 15. Gillis hired April 23. Now maybe you can get a job as an assistant burger chef at McDonalds that quick but that is not what happened with the Canucks. [/quote]

Really? So you know for a fact that no interviews with prospective new GMs had taken place BEFORE Nonis got the axe? That there had been no informal chats, no hunting around?

If you have ever hired any at senior levels you will find that one week to hire is a bit on the too quick side. It appears Soundy you are not in favour of interviews but that is how smart owners do things especially when it comes to key leadership positions.

Now you're pulling stuff out of your ass. "Not in favour of interviews"? Huh?? Please tell me what in this exchange suggests that:

Hiring a guy with no other interviews is dumber.

Sure it is. How do you know that's what Aquilini did?

Did I not just agree here that hiring someone without interviewing them is "dumb"?

Most owners with a half brain would have interviewed a number of prospective candidates and found out from these guys what their views are of what the Canucks need to do to improve and how and where and also how they could add value to the team.

And again, how do you know this wasn't done? Granted, the media in this town are pretty good at sniffing out these goings-on (and if the can't sniff any, some will make them up), but just because we don't hear about it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Now where do I have anything "against interviews" here? If this is as astute as your analysis gets, it pretty much writes off the validity of the rest of your post.

Owners statement in the Globe on April 15: "However, I think this important change in leadership is critical to the future of the team and the direction we need to take," said Aquilini, who was in Europe on non-hockey-related business when the Canucks ended the regular season with an embarrassing 7-1 loss to the Calgary Flames. "It's not acceptable to our fans or to us as owners that our team isn't in the playoffs.

"As owners we made a commitment to deliver the kind of hockey our fans deserve. At the same time, with leadership comes responsibility. So our search begins today for a new general manager, and our focus going forward is on a winning season in 2008-09."

Meantime, Gillis' daughter made comment that the family had already discussed a move to Vancouver WEEKS before, indicating that this had be in the process for quite some time. There's long been speculation that Aquilini didn't like how Nonis ran the team... you seriously believe they hadn't "begun their search" WELL before April 15??

As I've already said, I wouldn't be surprised if the Aqulinis weren't at least sniffing around the idea of a new GM the minute they got full ownership of the team, and were limited in what they could or would do about it in large part by the legal proceedings. But to think that they went from having NO thought of a new GM, to hiring one out of the blue, all in the course of a week, is frankly naive and ridiculous.

[LFITQ]

Canucks just got better because of a signing by the New York Rangers.

[nelson95]

Glad that my ice pak seats will improve

[Lion Guy]

So all that said Soundy...how's that Gillis guy doing so far?

Why do I have this picture in my head of Burke and Nonis sitting by the pool near Disneyland sipping on a cocktail and laughing their collective arses off?

[TheLionKing]

So all that said Soundy...how's that Gillis guy doing so far?

Gillis has thus far assembled the best group of 4th liners in the NHL.

[Soundy]

So all that said Soundy...how's that Gillis guy doing so far?

How's he doing? So far, he hasn't done anything unexpected, or blindingly stupid. Most people have been saying the core needs a shake-up, well, it's started. Nobody expected Naslund or Morrison to be re-signed (and most of the media and fans seem to have been calling for that for some time), so no surprise there. As much as I'm sorry to see Naslund go, I agree with most that for the sake of his own career he needs a change of scenery, and it was probably TIME for him to move on. Mo's had injury problems that have reduced his value (part of which was also due to the line he played on - ref. Anson Carter) and probably could remain here and do well, but if someone else is willing to offer him more and possibly put him with more productive linemates, then good on him; I'd like to see him stay, but he's probably due for a change too.

I don't know who else Gillis has or hasn't tried to go after (other than the much-publicized Sundin offer), or how or why any of those players chose to go elsewhere, so there's really little point in judging him on any of that.

Marian Hossa, for example, was courted by a lot of teams for a lot more money and a lot longer terms than Detroit (I believe 4-5 years at $8-9M per was rumoured to be the going price), but felt he had the best chance at a cup there... if that's what his main criteria was, how do you "blame" other GMs for not "bettering" the offer? Sometimes it's not JUST about money, or travel, or location, or the coach, or any other reasons/excuses/speculation people toss about for why a player may not choose to sign with their favorite team.

[Lion Guy]

So all that said Soundy...how's that Gillis guy doing so far?

How's he doing? So far, he hasn't done anything unexpected, or blindingly stupid. Most people have been saying the core needs a shake-up, well, it's started. Nobody expected Naslund or Morrison to be re-signed (and most of the media and fans seem to have been calling for that for some time), so no surprise there. As much as I'm sorry to see Naslund go, I agree with most that for the sake of his own career he needs a change of scenery, and it was probably TIME for him to move on. Mo's had injury problems that have reduced his value (part of which was also due to the line he played on - ref. Anson Carter) and probably could remain here and do well, but if someone else is willing to offer him more and possibly put him with more productive linemates, then good on him; I'd like to see him stay, but he's probably due for a change too.

I don't know who else Gillis has or hasn't tried to go after (other than the much-publicized Sundin offer), or how or why any of those players chose to go elsewhere, so there's really little point in judging him on any of that.

Marian Hossa, for example, was courted by a lot of teams for a lot more money and a lot longer terms than Detroit (I believe 4-5 years at $8-9M per was rumoured to be the going price), but felt he had the best chance at a cup there... if that's what his main criteria was, how do you "blame" other GMs for not "bettering" the offer? Sometimes it's not JUST about money, or travel, or location, or the coach, or any other reasons/excuses/speculation people toss about for why a player may not choose to sign with their favorite team.

But...but....he promised. " 38 years and no cups, and that is not acceptable. We need to win NOW."

His ability to get the right guys here NOW was the reason he was hired. ????

[Lion Guy]

So all that said Soundy...how's that Gillis guy doing so far?

Gillis has thus far assembled the best group of 4th liners in the NHL.

:lol: :lol: :lol: