Lions bumping Canucks in media coverage; the tide has turned

[Stui]

Oh come on now Stui ... what's the fun in that ...

hahahahaha

Besides, there is one slight flaw in your argument.

"...for personal gain" that was just one of the additionl comments that define a professional. Done so that it wasn't "left out" as _one of_ the definitions

As you stated above they have to "get paid to play"... Technically they aren't getting paid to play. In fact they are receiving a "living allowance" or a "stipend".

Right, they are recieving money, whatever label they want to give it to avoid say... the tax man.. they are recieving renumeration for providing the services requested of them, which is, to play hockey. And hopefully win. heheheh

They actually aren't getting paid to play

See my previous note

anymore than the kids are at the minor hockey level. The kids get "paid" by their parents an allowance or a living expense or even a stipend, and are not considered "professionals". In fact if a parent buys the kids ewuipment and drives them to practices and games and provides them with a roof over their head and 3 square meals a day, the kid in the minor leagues is actually getting better "paid" than the kid in the WHL and should actually give up his amateur status and be considered professional.

Ahh, but the gear being bought for them is considered a "gift" from their parents. The transportation provided is also considered a gift. If a team in a kids little league, were found out by the league, that the kids were being directly given money by the team (coach, assistant coach, owner, etc) the team would be immediately removed from that season. Because, then, by definition, they would be "professional", regardless of the fact that they have barely more than basic knowledge of how to play hockey, other than "go that way, and put the puck in the net". So, no, they aren't being directly paid, so don't have to give up amateur status.

Agreed, it would be ridiculous if that scenario arose, but, again, by definition, and no personal interpretation/feelings/opinion, that ridiculous scenario would in fact be true. You could find two lawyers to very succincty argue both sides. Now THAT would be a fun show. :lol:

Your argument seems to stem from the premise that the kids in the WHL, or even the BCJHL, are being "Paid to Play", when in reality they are being given a living allowance or stipend that is not tied directly to their productivity for the team (as it is in all other "professions" or paid employment). There is a huge difference, just ask Revenue Canada.

No, monetary gain for productivity is what the "big league players" negotiate as additions to their contracts. They are performance bonuses. They still get a defined (and negotiated for better monetary gain) base salary for playing games. They recieve renumeration for playing games. If they miss a game, they don't get paid any money, as they are being directly paid to provide the service to which they have been engaged to provide. Nothing to do with performance. If they don't meet their performance bonus agenda, they only get paid their "base salary". Revenue Canada has put things into the income tax laws, to allow kids to be paid, and have it labeled something else, so that they don't have to pay taxes the same way as the NHL guys do.

And yeah, while we all consider them to be amateur players, they are in fact, by definition, professional players.

But realistically, the whole thing seems kind of silly if you ask me. Especially considering where this thread started and the several different permutations and tangents it has gone through.

Agreed. As I'd noted, I put the link up, to the defintion of professional, as it's pretty clear, so thought it would stop. 'nuff said.

Now that is the truly funny part. :lol: :lol: :lol:

So, how about them Lions eh! I'm pretty confident we'll get win #14 tonight. Then again, I guess it depends on whether Wally will keep any 1st team guys out of the game.

Which radio station is it going to be on, by the way? (ooooooh, ouch, singe!!!)

[Solar Max]

@ Yank in BC

By DEFINITION anyone who gets paid, regardles of how little it is, is classified as a "professional". So regardless of anyone's interpretation of "what the league is", it IS a professional league.

From the dictionary:
"a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs" DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL.

And just for you, seeing as you're an american, from the AMERICAN HERITAGE DICITONARY:
"Performed by persons receiving pay"

So I would suggest that before you post, make sure it's not just an interpretation by an individual.

So, as you said, yes, my post was much better, and as I have just shown, smart-ass, no, I'm not wrong. (nice try at the sarcasm by the way. No, really.)

Later.

So are you saying that the Vancouver Giants are recompensed to the same degree as the BC Lions are? By your definition of "professional" a child running a koolaid stand is a "professional"; would that fit your model?

The Giants themselves refer to themselves as "amateurs", and I will therefore take their word over yours, minus the name calling, of course.

[Stui]

So are you saying that the Vancouver Giants are recompensed to the same degree as the BC Lions are? By your definition of "professional" a child running a koolaid stand is a "professional"; would that fit your model?

The Giants themselves refer to themselves as "amateurs", and I will therefore take their word over yours, minus the name calling, of course.

As I said just above, we ALL think of them as amateurs, but ONE LAST TIME, BY DEFINITION, they ARE professional. And yes, regardless of age, or money taken, the kids would be "professional vendors", and by municipal law _should_ have a business licence, and cleared by the health department, but they aren't as that would be completely ridiculous. But, again, is an allowance given by the authorities. It's just an "allowance" to 'bend the rules'

Our personal feelings, thoughts, interpretations are irrelevant. It's what they are defined as, even if they are kids running a lemonade stand. And NO, NOONE would look at kids selling lemonade, and think of them as professional vendors. Hell, I know I wouldn't.

Now, we used to have the term: "semi-professional":
(definition)semi-professional athlete is one who is paid to play and thus is not an amateur, but for whom sport is not a full-time occupation, generally because the level of pay is too low to make a reasonable living based solely upon that source, thus making the athlete not a full professional athlete.(/definition)
Which would be a much better term to use.

The first half, of the first sentence makes my point. If you are paid to play, you are not, by definition, an amateur. Now, they call it a "living allowance" and "stipend", so that it's NOT called a salary. But that is simply terminology created, and allowed, to _call_ it something other than salary. But it does go directly to the player, so is pay-for-play.

WE ALL think of them as amateurs, of course, but my point, by definition, is that they are professionals... Maybe people would find this easier if I said non-amatuer?

Without the name calling? What's the fun in that? People can get very creative with it! Not me, but I've seen people who are wicked at it! heheheheh

[Solar Max]

As I said just above, we ALL think of them as amateurs, but ONE LAST TIME, BY DEFINITION, they ARE professional. And yes, regardless of age, or money taken, the kids would be "professional vendors", and by municipal law _should_ have a business licence, and cleared by the health department, but they aren't as that would be completely ridiculous. But, again, is an allowance given by the authorities. It's just an "allowance" to 'bend the rules'

One last time, by dictionary definition, you may be correct. Many disagree with you, however, as the Giants are a WHL Junior team that is paid a stipend to cover expenses, and not paid to play the game per se.

Your argument is based upon clinical definition, and not real world experience, and as such is fatally flawed.

As for name calling, since you enjoy it so much, please do it some more, so that we can see the result.

[Stui]

Getting back to the thread:

What's so wrong with the current setup for radio? Other than you have to change to an AM station, what's up with it?

It's a great pre and post game show (or is that only on 1040?)

And how often does it happen that the Canucks and Lions play on the same night, at the same time? The Lions play each week of each month of the season (except the bye week), so even if it was once a month, would that be so bad?

I'm kinda spoilt here, near Ottawa, as the games are never blacked out, so I get to see even the home games. But I'd give anything to be able to get a gig back home, doing what I do. I couldn't give a *poop* about blackouts, as I was a season ticket holder and was at every home game.

So, as I asked, what's so really wrong/bad/upsetting with the current radio setup? I listen to the pregame and postgame shows over the Internet. And for the record, the NW pre and post game shows, used to suck, badly.

[Stui]

One last time, by dictionary definition, you may be correct. Many disagree with you, however, as the Giants are a WHL Junior team that is paid a stipend to cover expenses, and not paid to play the game per se.

If they don't play in any games, do they still get their stipend?

Your argument is based upon clinical definition, and not real world experience, and as such is fatally flawed.

wow, talk about contradicting yourself in the same post. No, it is not flawed, it is in fact, FACT. As you, yourself noted in your opening sentence. Lotsa thought went into that sentence, eh?

As for name calling, since you enjoy it so much, please do it some more, so that we can see the result.

well, as you obviously/apparently don't READ what is said, I said I wasn't any good at it, but have seen people who were wicked/brilliant at it. very creative. I suck at it. And in fact, the use of "smartass" was in direct response to the sarcasm being used. So just gave what I got. No big deal, doesn't really bother me. Just gives me an excuse to give a comeback.

Actually from what I've seen of both No Ordinary Joe and Yank in BC, I'd love to sit down with them over beer/coffee/lunch, and be able to have serirous discussion about our boys and the game itself.

But no, alas, I'm not good at name calling.

[LFITQ]

What's so wrong with the current setup for radio? Other than you have to change to an AM station, what's up with it?

Well I have been able to pick up AM1040 on a good bounce up here. I'm not sure if CFUN has the same possibility. So there's a difference 8) :lol: :lol:

[Soundy]

So are you saying that the Vancouver Giants are recompensed to the same degree as the BC Lions are?

If DEGREE of compensation is the determining factor, then again I'll point out that the CFL would only barely be a "professional" league compared the the NFL, MLB, NBA, and yes, the NHL.

Or are you saying the the BC Lions are recompensed to the same degree as the Vancouver Canucks are, since both are considered "professional"?

[Yank In BC]

From the dictionary:
"a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs" DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL.

And by that defenition they are not Professionals. They can not "earn a living" on their stipend.

But we can agree to disagree.

[Soundy]

From the dictionary:
"a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs" DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL.

And by that defenition they are not Professionals. They can not "earn a living" on their stipend.

But we can agree to disagree.

Other listed definitions:

"undertaken or engaged in as a means of livelihood or for gain: professional baseball."
"Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer."
"Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football."
"Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job."

By one definition, a "professional" is "an authority qualified to teach apprentices". Now if you're going to discount everything based on a single definition, this one discounts almost everyone playing "professional" sports.

[Grandmaster C]

Soundy, you're a Canucks FIRST fan; why can't you understand that some of us are LIONS FIRST fans? Isn't it the same thing that we want for each of our respective clubs? Top billing?

Excuse me, why do you think I'm a Canucks fan first? Because I get annoyed at all the anti-Canuck whining here? Maybe I'm just a non-whining-for-the-sake-of-ridiculous-whining fan. Maybe I'm a let's-use-a-little-logic-instead-of-wanking-off-all-the-time fan. Maybe this is the same reason chimpy120's constant whipping of the attendance/roof/noise dead horses pisses me off so much.

And why can't I be both teams equally? Both of them get a pretty good deal on the radio here. We get EVERY game of BOTH teams. We get good coverage of both in the local media. We have it pretty f'n good in this town when it comes to our sports teams, compared to what I've seen in a lot of other towns, and it really bothers me that some people take that for granted to the point that they insist on making everything an us-against-them battle.

Just for the record, I've brought up the same points on other boards regarding the Giants coverage, and if peope on the canucks.com forums were whining the way you people are about the Lions getting preferential treatment over the Canucks on those days THEY have to tune 1410 instead of 1040, I'd tell them exactly the same thing.

[Lions4ever]

All due respect to the Vancouver Giants and their fans, but they are not a professional team...

Before attempting to attack someone, and try to make them appear stupid, you _REALLY_ should check your facts, before opening mouth (or typing on keyboard).

The Vancouver Giants are a pay-for-play team, and as they take home paycheques, they are IN FACT a professional team.

Just because they don't earn hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to play, doesn't make them any less "professional".

So, before you try and jump in, to rant-on, make sure you are aware of your facts, as the only thing this has done is make you look like an ill-informed, whiner. Your opening statement sunk you before you got started, and it's not like you can start the rant again.

Dumbass.

But of course your post is much better.



Oh wait, your the one that is WRONG.

This straight from the WHL web page:

2. Is the Western Hockey League a professional league?
The WHL in an amateur league working in conjunction with the Canadian Hockey League and the Hockey Canada. Players do receive a very modest monthly stipend while playing in the WHL, which provides them with spending money that they cannot earn in part-time jobs due to the time commitments of school and hockey.

FAQ's

You might want to Check your facts

Stui=pwned=dumbass

[Stui]

From the dictionary:
"a person who earns a living in a sport or other occupation frequently engaged in by amateurs" DICTIONARY DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL.

And by that defenition they are not Professionals. They can not "earn a living" on their stipend.

No, but that was only one definition. There are a list of them, to which any individual one defines a professional.

But we can agree to disagree.

Agreed!

That being done, I've still not been able to see what the problem is with the current radio situation. other that the post from Quesnel, who has to rely on frequency bouncing.

I have a question about the 1040 calls on "double nights". Do they not say during commercial breaks, or at any time, that if you were tuning in for the Lions' game, you should tune to AM 1410 (sorry if I have the freq., wrong)?

[Stui]

Stui=pwned=dumbass

What's "pwned"?

[Stui]

What's so wrong with the current setup for radio? Other than you have to change to an AM station, what's up with it?

Well I have been able to pick up AM1040 on a good bounce up here. I'm not sure if CFUN has the same possibility. So there's a difference 8) :lol: :lol:

Wow, that's rough. No local stations willing to pick the games up and retransmit? That sucks!

You would think that with today's technology, there'd be a better way. Then again, I'm quite sure there is, they just don't think people are worth the effort and money.

I know there's satellite radio now, but not everyone can afford the monthly fees, and I don't even know if 1040 is on there anyways.