COVID-19 : How it could impact Lions/CFL
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I cdhoose to be an optimist. delay the tc to latew june. the tc can serve as quarantine for the players. by july most provinces will be well along in recovery plans. then for the live games here are soime of my thoughts. all players and on field staff and stadium employees must be tested and be negative. for the fans we must wear masks or be tested prior to getting a ticket. masks to be on except for eating or drinking. all fans to be screened outside of stadium for symnptoms. or the teams might consider subsidize fan testing prior to games. for tc have imports go to seattle where they will charter to kamloops to quarantine so long as they have been tested in the usa and are negative
- Belize City Lion
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The $2.8M operations cap includes about $700K spent on travel. That would be gone in a neutral site scenario.Hambone wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:41 am
Belize pondered the idea that the cap covers most of the player salaries which isn't exactly true. It covers about 90% of the SMS Cap which doesn't include 6G injuries, the football ops cap of $2.8M and salaries of the other support staff like trainers, medical staff, equipment staff etc whom a team cannot operate without. It also wouldn't cover those housing costs you alluded to. 4 months living in Winnipeg or wherever? That's 120 nights x minimum 40 rooms assuming double occupancy. 46 players + practice roster + coaches + GM + some Football Ops + equipment manager, trainers, athletic therapists etc. You're looking at minimum 80 people per team. No doubt they can score some great deals on hotel rooms but that's $500K per team @ $100/night or $750K/team @ $150/night just for accommodations. The hoggies haven't even been fed yet.
The cap also includes up 14 employees that are not coaches or medical staff. Most of those people would not be needed if there were no tickets sales, sponsorships, marketing, or game day operations. Of course you keep the GM, probably an assistant GM or president, and a head of scouting. But teams could probably reduce staff by 10. If those salaries averaged $50K then that's another $500K trimmed.
You would not need to pay for players and coaches accommodations because their jobs would now be based in Winnipeg (or Regina, or Fredricton, or wherever). This may be an issue for the few players and coaches who actually live year round in their CFL city, and maybe teams subsidize the housing costs for those veteran players only. But for the majority of players who report to camp each spring, they first thing they have to do after making the team is find a place to live. No different this year except there would be guys from every team looking for a place to live in the same city.
So, once you cut the operations cost by eliminating travel and reducing staff, you are looking at a total budget of about $6.9M to field a team for 18 games. If everyone agrees to a 25% pay cut across the board you are at $5.2M which can be covered by the amount each team gets from TSN. Prorate the salaries commensurate with the length of the 2020 season and I think the numbers are viable, even for a 9 game season.
We have temporarily avoided major outbreaks in BC. Smaller outbreaks and deaths are happening daily. There are few systems in place in BC to deal with larger outbreaks. Opening up the economy without having stringent measures in place to contain the virus seems risky to me.
It's hard to discuss the CFL without discussing societal health, economic, privacy/autonomy issues. The outlook seems gloomy all around. I know that I won't be buying any tickets for a long time!
US has major outbreaks. Bringing players up from there seems very risky, unless they were strictly isolated, along with all of their coaches and teammates. Under these conditions, could teams even find enough players to field a team? Would it be worth it financially? Would anyone care about the games?
- Hambone
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The cap includes 25 personnel of which a max of 11 can be coaches. The other 14 are football ops types for the Lions being Hervey, Hunter, McEvoy, Simon, Ralph, Okeke, scouts and equipment and video staff. The therapists and medical staff don't count under the FOPS cap. Trainers, therapists, equipment and video staff however are essential to be with the team 24 x 7 at a neutral site. Presumably the travel expenses you reference would mostly be to cover the needs for scouting forays. Part of that budget for 2020 has already been consumed but a neutral site will not stop that spending. CFL teams always scout NFL training camps which at this point are a go. If NCAA and CIS seasons take place they will be scouted. And of course they scout other CFL teams' players so will have to spend some time wherever the neutral site(s) games might be played at. Scouting efforts won't stop just because the stands have no fans. They don't scout the fans in the stands....well except maybe for that hot chick in the first few rows.Belize City Lion wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 3:41 pmThe $2.8M operations cap includes about $700K spent on travel. That would be gone in a neutral site scenario.
The cap also includes up 14 employees that are not coaches or medical staff. Most of those people would not be needed if there were no tickets sales, sponsorships, marketing, or game day operations. Of course you keep the GM, probably an assistant GM or president, and a head of scouting. But teams could probably reduce staff by 10. If those salaries averaged $50K then that's another $500K trimmed.
You would not need to pay for players and coaches accommodations because their jobs would now be based in Winnipeg (or Regina, or Fredricton, or wherever). This may be an issue for the few players and coaches who actually live year round in their CFL city, and maybe teams subsidize the housing costs for those veteran players only. But for the majority of players who report to camp each spring, they first thing they have to do after making the team is find a place to live. No different this year except there would be guys from every team looking for a place to live in the same city.
So, once you cut the operations cost by eliminating travel and reducing staff, you are looking at a total budget of about $6.9M to field a team for 18 games. If everyone agrees to a 25% pay cut across the board you are at $5.2M which can be covered by the amount each team gets from TSN. Prorate the salaries commensurate with the length of the 2020 season and I think the numbers are viable, even for a 9 game season.
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I can't speak much to what coaches do for accommodations during the season. Just like players it would be individual decisions whether they bring their families with them to live in the city of their employment or just shack up in an apartment by themselves or with another coach. Regardless much of the speculation about the neutral site concept is that it will require all players, coaches and staff to be staying together under the same roof/hotel to reduce the risk of contacting the virus. Yes their jobs might be elsewhere but surely they can't be expected to shell out their own money for hotel rates for weeks on end. For some that would be in addition to leases they may already be committed to back home. On a typical season the Lions would have to cover travel expenses for maybe 20 nights; 10 road games x 2 nights on average. Occasionally a trip back east might involve a 3rd night and trips to Alberta might only involve 1. More often than not they charter home right after the game. The biggest savings would be in airfare as they'd only need to charter to and from the neutral site once presumably. But they'd be needing hotel rooms for all involved for as long is necessary. 8 games? 56 nights minimum. 18 games? Maybe up to 120 nights minimum. Per the CBA players are to receive a $115/day travel allowance when on the road with the team. As PR players would be with the team that would run $6440/day (56 x $115) or $45K/week. The CFL would have to come to some sort of agreement with the CFLPA to amend that so it doesn't apply every day.
Add up the 46, 10 man PR and 25 member coach and FOPs staff and you have 81 individuals. 70-75 of those folks will be essential to operate the team at a neutral site. In addition to that some injured players would stay with the team unless injuries were serious enough to put them on the 6G because the trainers and therapists who would treat them are at the neutral site.
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- Hambone
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If the season were lost my belief is Hamilton will still host in 2021 with Saskatchewan moving to 2022. Obviously both will be well down the road of preparing for their respective Grey Cups. That also includes considerable financial investments and expenses already incurred with Saskatchewan already being much deeper into it. Some of the expenses already incurred cannot be recovered in the event of cancellation or deferral. In that regard I think it makes sense to only disrupt one event instead of two. IMO Saskatchewan's event is already screwed. It won't make any difference for them whether they get 2021 or 2022. Hamilton though could still continue preparing for 2021 without causing themselves the financial harm that would come with being pushed to 2022. The only reason I could see them going to 2022 would be at their own request should they be having issues pulling it off for 2021. If it happened that the virus derailed 2021 as well then I don't think we ever have to worry about Grey Cup again.B.C.FAN wrote: ↑Thu May 07, 2020 5:16 pmEmpty-stadium games, even for a truncated season, are better than no games but it would take a buy-in from players and some financial support from fans, sponsors and governments. I don't know if the league would want to play a Grey Cup in an empty stadium but if they did, I'm sure they would give Saskatchewan a chance to host in 2021 instead and bump Hamilton by a year to 2022.
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Lions can only play when the BC Government's Phase 4 is reached where a vaccine is developed, widespread vaccination, the implementation of effective treatments, and evidence of community immunity.
Given that, it seems unlikely the CFL will play this year or maybe even next year.
Given that, it seems unlikely the CFL will play this year or maybe even next year.
I am MUCH more hopeful for CFL football in 2021 than I am in 2020. I think that most of us that have bought 2020 season tickets (or game packs) will want their tickets to move over to the 2021 season. That will provide a base for the team to operate next year, assuming that there are some helpful dollars coming to ease the pain of a cancelled season this year.
Ambrosie came under fire with his unprepared presentation to a House of Commons standing committee on finance.
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football ... eting.html
https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smi ... nd-to.html
https://www.thestar.com/sports/football ... eting.html
Doug Smith of the Toronto Star has a good perspective on what went wrong there:Thu., May 7, 2020
Federal politicians gave CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie a rough ride Thursday during his testimony before a House of Commons standing committee on finance.
Ambrosie spoke via video during a panel on arts, culture, sports and charitable organizations. His appearance came after news broke last week the CFL had requested up to $150 million in financial assistance from the federal government due to the COVID-19 pandemic.
During his testimony, Ambrosie said the league’s future is “very much in jeopardy,” adding CFL teams collectively lost about $20 million last year. He admitted for the first time the most likely scenario for the CFL is a cancelled 2020 season.
“Ours is a big brand, but not a wealthy business,” Ambrosie said. “Unlike large U.S.-based leagues, our biggest source of revenue is not TV — it’s ticket sales.
“Governments coping with COVID-19 — for reasons of public health that we totally support — have made it impossible for us to do what we do. Our best-case scenario for this year is a drastically truncated season. And our most likely scenario is no season at all.”
Following Ambrosie’s presentation, MPs Kevin Waugh (Conservative, Saskatoon-Grasswood), Peter Julian (NDP, New Westminster-Burnaby) and Peter Fragiskatos (Liberal, London North Centre) all took turns taking the CFL commissioner to task. At times, Ambrosie appeared on the defensive.
“Some of your comments have a lot of holes in them,” said Waugh, a former sports journalist who asked if the CFL was looking for a bailout or loan.
“What we’re looking for is a partnership with government,” Ambrosie said. “Our fundamental position is that we are looking for financial support that we want to pay back to Canadians.
“If it’s in the form of a loan, perhaps we pay some of that loan back through programs ... we’re really looking for a business relationship that would be good for Canadians in the long run.”
Waugh also pointed out the CFL’s three community-based franchises — the Edmonton Eskimos, Saskatchewan Roughriders and Winnipeg Blue Bombers — all turned seven-figure profits in 2018. He added the league’s six remaining franchises are privately owned by people or corporations with deep pockets.
“The fact is that in the face of essentially a zero-revenue model, all of our teams, including our community teams, are going to suffer significant losses that are going to be hard to recover from,” Ambrosie said. “The real issue is this crisis is essentially going to quadruple or more the financial losses that our teams will take in a season that could potentially be lost altogether.”
Julian wondered why Ambrosie’s presentation didn’t include any presence by the CFL Players’ Association.
“Those are the world-class athletes, as you’ve said, that actually are the heart and soul of the CFL,” Julian said. “What would they be saying if they were before the committee?
“And how much of the financial support you’re requesting would be going directly to the players of the CFL?”
The CFL and its players have resumed meeting about potential contingency plans for the ’20 season after talks broke off for roughly two weeks. Ambrosie said Thursday the two sides are scheduled to gather Friday.
“As for how much will go to players, we have to work that out,” Ambrosie said. “We know, for example, our players and alumni could be a potential solution in the healing of Canada.
“Our approach was that we simply wanted government to know we need help. The details of how it all comes together are yet to be decided and that has to be with our players and that has to be done with government as partners.”
Julian remained undeterred.
“Thank-you for your answer,” he said. “But the reality is, as we know, it’s the CFL players that are the heart of CFL football and I think it’s important we hear from them as quickly as possible.”
Julian also questioned Ambrosie about some of the corporations and individuals involved in CFL ownership. At a time when many Canadians are struggling, he added, why isn’t the league’s wealthier ownership, “stepping up to provide support for the CFL?”
“All of those groups and people you mentioned have been stepping up,” Ambrosie said. “The question really for us is how many losses can these owners take when they’ve been losing approximately in total $20 million a year?
https://www.thestar.com/sports/doug_smi ... nd-to.html
Fri., May 8, 2020
This, folks, is a tough one.
I do believe there is a role for government to play in these most unusual times to help businesses survive, business whose very existence is threatened not by anything they’ve done wrong but by this pandemic that is ravaging the world with no real end in sight.
And whenever it does end, or at least abate enough that we can start thinking about living a somewhat normal existence, things are going to be so different, so odd, so unlike anything we’ve experienced that it may take years for things to feel right.
The governments of the day – at all levels – have done what I think is a good job providing aid to businesses big and small, individuals and companies, which I think has to be one of their primary roles. Helping Canadians is what they are there for.
Sure, there are trouble spots and not everything they’ve done has been purrfect and in some cases they are simply making amends for mistakes in judgement and bad decisions made pre-pandemic.
But I do think their level of financial support has been good and necessary and welcome; they’ve taken responsibility for guiding Canadians through these times. It’s been impressive at many levels.
So I was quite interested in how the feds would handle the plea from the CFL for much-needed cash – up to $150 million, to be exact – because it is such a unique “business” that’s actually nine quite diverse companies under one umbrella.
I was ready to suggest the government look at it seriously and given it legitimate consideration. There is no doubt the league is taking and will take a financial hit that may be fatal, and in this case solely because of the circumstances so many others find themselves in. And if there’s money for some, maybe there should be money for others.
But this CFL plan – the one presented by commissioner Randy Ambrosie – comes off as so half-baked, so riddled with holes and obfuscation that it’s impossible to rally behind it in its current incarnation.
How in the world the league didn’t come with more specifics like who would get the money, how it would trickle down to office workers and players and poorly-compensated behind-the-scenes employees is beyond me. There was no suggestion of how the deeper pocketed franchise owners would shoulder their share of responsibility, nothing but vague ideas of what they might be able to do to repay the money, or at least provide something in return for what it is a bailout, badly needed as it is.
It was a shameful performance by the league’s leadership. Vague, full of holes, with not even the most rudimentary questions anyone could have expected.
Amateurish.
That’s sad and it could very well cost them their very existence, which would be a terrible, unnecessary blow to a truly iconic Canadian industry.
I’ve covered CFL regular season games in every city in the league over the years and done Grey Cups in Toronto, Hamilton, Ottawa, Winnipeg and Calgary.
I know how important it is in those smaller cities, how the league galvanizes people, entertains them. It is in the very fabric of many of those communities, it’s theirs and having something that’s “yours” in a sporting context can be vitally important.
I know it’s hard given where we live and what the CFL is to Toronto, where it’s an absolute afterthought at best to many and has been horribly run for years and years and years. That definitely factors into the feelings in this neck of the woods but, thankfully, I imagine the people who have to make the ultimate decisions will look at the broader picture.
Like so many other industries that need help right now and the government that it’s asking for help from, the CFL has made its fair share of mistakes and finds itself in these dire straights thanks to its own undoing.
But this calamity, the pandemic and the havoc it is wreaking, is a once-in-a-lifetime thing and extraordinary measures are necessary to save what can be saved.
That’s why I thought the CFL deserved to at least be heard but shame on me for thinking it wouldn’t shoot itself in the foot, which is precisely what it did.
I think that this is accurate given what we know right now. However, many things are unknown and unpredictable.johnchow604 wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:49 pmLions can only play when the BC Government's Phase 4 is reached where a vaccine is developed, widespread vaccination, the implementation of effective treatments, and evidence of community immunity.
Given that, it seems unlikely the CFL will play this year or maybe even next year.
For example, there is a chance that a vaccine will never be developed and that we will need to live with this virus indefinitely. Would that mean the end of large gatherings forever? What would we choose between loss of autonomy and higher risk of death?
Regardless, flexibility and adaptability will be key in coming months and years.
COVID-19 could fade away in a year without the benefit of a vaccine as other coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS did.maxlion wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 5:24 pmI think that this is accurate given what we know right now. However, many things are unknown and unpredictable.johnchow604 wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:49 pmLions can only play when the BC Government's Phase 4 is reached where a vaccine is developed, widespread vaccination, the implementation of effective treatments, and evidence of community immunity.
Given that, it seems unlikely the CFL will play this year or maybe even next year.
For example, there is a chance that a vaccine will never be developed and that we will need to live with this virus indefinitely. Would that mean the end of large gatherings forever? What would we choose between loss of autonomy and higher risk of death?
SARS and MERS were contained through implementing public health measures not unlike those implemented for COVID-19, on a much smaller scale. So far, these measures haven't been as successful at containing COVID-19, though a few countries have managed to effectively eliminate COVID-19 using more stringent public health measures. I don't think it will fade away without implementing similarly stringent measures, but I would love to be wrong.B.C.FAN wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 5:57 pmCOVID-19 could fade away in a year without the benefit of a vaccine as other coronaviruses such as SARS and MERS did.maxlion wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 5:24 pmI think that this is accurate given what we know right now. However, many things are unknown and unpredictable.johnchow604 wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:49 pmLions can only play when the BC Government's Phase 4 is reached where a vaccine is developed, widespread vaccination, the implementation of effective treatments, and evidence of community immunity.
Given that, it seems unlikely the CFL will play this year or maybe even next year.
For example, there is a chance that a vaccine will never be developed and that we will need to live with this virus indefinitely. Would that mean the end of large gatherings forever? What would we choose between loss of autonomy and higher risk of death?
The Canadian public seems unwilling at this time to contemplate implementing measures that have proven successful in countries that have effectively eliminated the virus, so it is hard for me to feel as optimistic as you about the problem going away anytime soon.
Okay I'll retreat back to the "pub" again. Go Lions go
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Just a shout out to Lion fans to stay home and stay safe this up coming holiday weekend. We can only hope the Easter idiots will follow suit. BB
Wear orange or wear nothing
Rick LeLacheur was interviewed by Matt Baker on Friday and seemed somewhat optimistic about an 8 game season with a couple of games (at least) played at BC Place, maintaining a physical distance (likely everyone would wear masks) and using both seating levels. There has been some discussion with the government and health officials about this. I wouldn't rule it out despite what Horgan said the other day. And anything from Ambrosie right now is entirely doom and gloom to secure as much funding as possible.
That was my prediction a while ago. A shortened season after Labour Day. The league will not get $150M from the feds (that was a pie-in-the-sky number) but will get enough to help cover a shortened season with minimal to no fan presence (I think they have modelled out both). This is a better option than the "out of sight, out of mind, return in 2021" option where only diehards like us would be hungry for its return. That will be devastating.
September is a long way away. There are a number of hurdles, not the least of which is the CFLPA getting on board, but I would not dismiss the idea of some football being played despite what you've heard recently.
DH![:cool: :cool:](./images/smilies/icon_cool.gif)
That was my prediction a while ago. A shortened season after Labour Day. The league will not get $150M from the feds (that was a pie-in-the-sky number) but will get enough to help cover a shortened season with minimal to no fan presence (I think they have modelled out both). This is a better option than the "out of sight, out of mind, return in 2021" option where only diehards like us would be hungry for its return. That will be devastating.
September is a long way away. There are a number of hurdles, not the least of which is the CFLPA getting on board, but I would not dismiss the idea of some football being played despite what you've heard recently.
DH
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