2015 All Things Lions Marketing & Promotions

[Ravi]

To illustrate how far attendance has slipped at BC Place... the last 3 years the Lions have played in Toronto, the Argos have averaged 20,396 fans at Rogers Centre (2014- 18,283 / 2013- 20,064 / 2012- 22,841)

And here we are with just 20,085 tonight. Wake up Dennis Skulsky !!! Moronic pricing for a few years now has killed the fan base. Make all the excuses you want. Tonight's game was on a rainy Friday night in the summer. Sounds like a pretty good night for football at a domed stadium, doesn't it ? It's not on a Thursday, or when it's too sunny, or when it's too hot out, or on a Saturday or Sunday when everyone's out of town etc. The Lions are playing in a billion dollar state of the art stadium and the Team 1040 was talking about the game all week.

Wake up ! This whole (now needed) rebuild of the fan base is self-inflicted. Keep ignoring the fans and relentlessly raise ticket prices without any breaks for families (or anybody) and this is what you get.

So, basically, attendance is back to where it was pre-Ackles' second tenure. Sad to see when average attendance was as high as 34k as recently as 2008 in "old" B.C. Place.

[dupsdell1]

The product on the field last year drove season ticketholders away. Ultimately the product on the field will determine whether those fans will come back, but it won't happen overnight, especially in summer. I don't think pricing is the major issue. It's primarily the entertainment value of the product, and secondarily the in-game atmosphere. It's getting harder to compete for fans who like to watch games in comfort at home on their HD screens. It's not an easy sell.

The Lions are actively marketing their product as an inexpensive night of entertainment, and it still is. The atmosphere and noise in the stadium was still great with 20,000 fans in attendance, unlike what it was 15 years ago when the Lions last went through a down phase. The Lions are already giving away thousands of tickets for their summer games. They have to bank on staying competitive and entertaining on the field so they can make their money in the fall when playoff positions are on the line. If crowds don't pick up, I can see more giveaways to try to entice people into the building. If that doesn't work, a change in price structure may be needed next year. It's too early to give up on the marketing plan for this year.

I hate to say this and I agree with everything you are saying but Skulski has to go he has Destroyed this team from the time he was Hired by David Braily , the only thing that Braily ever did right for the lions was hire Bob Ackles , even when he took over the Lions half way through the 1997 season ( averaging 16,000 a game ) he did nothing for the team , if He had not hired Ackles this team would not have been here , it is time to get new faces in this Organization . if I was the owner I would have never hired Skulski to begin with , he is not a buissness man he is a fan and seeing him standing on the sidelines like a cheer leader is so unprofessional.

[sj-roc]

To illustrate how far attendance has slipped at BC Place... the last 3 years the Lions have played in Toronto, the Argos have averaged 20,396 fans at Rogers Centre (2014- 18,283 / 2013- 20,064 / 2012- 22,841)

And here we are with just 20,085 tonight. Wake up Dennis Skulsky !!! Moronic pricing for a few years now has killed the fan base. Make all the excuses you want. Tonight's game was on a rainy Friday night in the summer. Sounds like a pretty good night for football at a domed stadium, doesn't it ? It's not on a Thursday, or when it's too sunny, or when it's too hot out, or on a Saturday or Sunday when everyone's out of town etc. The Lions are playing in a billion dollar state of the art stadium and the Team 1040 was talking about the game all week.

Wake up ! This whole (now needed) rebuild of the fan base is self-inflicted. Keep ignoring the fans and relentlessly raise ticket prices without any breaks for families (or anybody) and this is what you get.

So, basically, attendance is back to where it was pre-Ackles' second tenure. Sad to see when average attendance was as high as 34k as recently as 2008 in "old" B.C. Place.

I would probably wait some more, perhaps even until the end of this season before making that pronouncement but I admit it's tough to avoid the comparison at this stage. Attendance in the fall months may pick up, though things may get even worse before they improve what with two Thursday games upcoming on the home schedule on Aug 6 (Edm) and Aug 20 (Mtl). We could be looking at sub-20k for the first time since Aug 2002. (In 2002 the first five dates were all sub-18k and averaged 15,522; the final four all exceeded 20k and averaged 22,239; the overall avg on the year was 18,507)

One thing I wonder with the Whitecaps tarp now in use, does it obstruct the video board for the very back (highest) rows of the lower bowl? It was ok from my seat about halfway up but it seemed (I didn't bother checking) like some obstruction might occur if you go all the way back. That might help explain why the Caps tarp off a lot of those very back rows of the lower bowl, in addition to capacity management reasons. Hide some of the warts, so to speak.

[SammyGreene]

Oct, 8 2011
Still maintain this was the day the alarm bells should have went off in the Lions front office.
Lions steamrolling along and returning to a renovated BC Place. 50,0000 for first-ever event back in stadium then just 30,622 the following week against Western rival Calgary (when McCallum hits a 54-yard on the game's final play). Attendance for remaining two games 29,000 (Edmonton) and 35,000 (Montreal).

The Lions were counting big time on the return to BC Place rekindling the interest back to the level it was from 2005-08 under the Bob Ackles led regime. They were confident enough to eliminate the gold section seats (between the 20-30 yard-lines) and make it all platinum. My season tickets jumped $20 per game. Just a small thing but a contributing factor of why the club is where it is today.

[BC 1988]

Smallest crowd I have seen in here in years. Both upper rows of end zones as well as corners sitting basically empty.

I wonder if the practice of keeping blocks of seats off TM might be working against attendance. I bought my ticket yesterday after they finally opened up the section I wanted--Section 227, high enough to be looking straight through the goal posts. (That was were I liked to sit in the Upper Bowl, but this was a good replacement).
The front row of the section and 1/2 of another row was full. Other than that, there was tonnes of room.

I looked at TM for EDM August 6th and it's the same story--Rows AA and above are all-greyed.

[David]

The scary thing is guys, there's a very strong movement afoot, especially among the Prairie clubs to move the season back (at least) 2 weeks, which would be disastrous in this market. For whatever reason, things don't get dialed up here until after Labour Day. However, they have concerns about their attendance in November, particularly the prospect of playing playoff games in frigid temps.


DH

[sj-roc]

Smallest crowd I have seen in here in years. Both upper rows of end zones as well as corners sitting basically empty.

I wonder if the practice of keeping blocks of seats off TM might be working against attendance. I bought my ticket yesterday after they finally opened up the section I wanted--Section 227, high enough to be looking straight through the goal posts. (That was were I liked to sit in the Upper Bowl, but this was a good replacement).
The front row of the section and 1/2 of another row was full. Other than that, there was tonnes of room.

I looked at TM for EDM August 6th and it's the same story--Rows AA and above are all-greyed.

It's almost like in addition to having the upper deck fully closed, they're also using tarps — invisible tarps, if you will — to close off the back of some of these sections.

It seems like they're doing it at least partly to create some sense of urgency by giving the illusion — any time someone looks at the map — that there aren't many tickets left. But it won't work for very long as people come to games and see so many blocks of empty seats that they'd thought were already sold.

Speaking of Section 227, that's almost exactly where the new "BC Lions Drumline" sets up shop, isn't it? Must get pretty loud in that area when they play (which only seems to be twice a night near the start and end of games).

[Ravi]

To illustrate how far attendance has slipped at BC Place... the last 3 years the Lions have played in Toronto, the Argos have averaged 20,396 fans at Rogers Centre (2014- 18,283 / 2013- 20,064 / 2012- 22,841)

And here we are with just 20,085 tonight. Wake up Dennis Skulsky !!! Moronic pricing for a few years now has killed the fan base. Make all the excuses you want. Tonight's game was on a rainy Friday night in the summer. Sounds like a pretty good night for football at a domed stadium, doesn't it ? It's not on a Thursday, or when it's too sunny, or when it's too hot out, or on a Saturday or Sunday when everyone's out of town etc. The Lions are playing in a billion dollar state of the art stadium and the Team 1040 was talking about the game all week.

Wake up ! This whole (now needed) rebuild of the fan base is self-inflicted. Keep ignoring the fans and relentlessly raise ticket prices without any breaks for families (or anybody) and this is what you get.

So, basically, attendance is back to where it was pre-Ackles' second tenure. Sad to see when average attendance was as high as 34k as recently as 2008 in "old" B.C. Place.

I would probably wait some more, perhaps even until the end of this season before making that pronouncement but I admit it's tough to avoid the comparison at this stage. Attendance in the fall months may pick up, though things may get even worse before they improve what with two Thursday games upcoming on the home schedule on Aug 6 (Edm) and Aug 20 (Mtl). We could be looking at sub-20k for the first time since Aug 2002. (In 2002 the first five dates were all sub-18k and averaged 15,522; the final four all exceeded 20k and averaged 22,239; the overall avg on the year was 18,507)

I always remember from Ackles' book how he wrote that he cried when he saw the pitiful attendance for the 2002 home opener. I admit that the Lions aren't quite back to those levels (15k-16k) yet but they are getting perilously close. I keep reading about how attendance will increase in the fall but with the floor having now gone to 20k and maybe less soon, where does that leave the ceiling? Is "increased attendance in the fall" 25k now. That was the summer number in recent years.

I know many on here are David Braley fans but I honestly believe, for the good of the league, it is now time that he sells this team. I realize Skulsky is a problem but the buck ultimately stops with Braley. As I have said before, Braley is great at saving franchises but lousy at growing them. If Bob Ackles had not returned to B.C., I firmly believe that the last 13 years for the Lions would have been similar to, if not worse, than the last 13 years for the Argos (re: attendance).

[sj-roc]

The scary thing is guys, there's a very strong movement afoot, especially among the Prairie clubs to move the season back (at least) 2 weeks, which would be disastrous in this market. For whatever reason, things don't get dialed up here until after Labour Day. However, they have concerns about their attendance in November, particularly the prospect of playing playoff games in frigid temps.


DH

It would be disastrous for the whole league to move the schedule back like that up against the Stanley Cup Finals. Maybe not every year but any time a Cdn team makes it the league will be in tough to compete for media attention.

And if this is the case then I don't want to hear another word about fans in this market watching games indoors.

For whatever reason, things don't get dialed up here until after Labour Day.

I'll tell you why. You remember that thread I started last year, "Can we be more CFL-positive?" It's because when TSN keeps repeatedly telling us "season doesn't start til Labour Day", "season doesn't start til Labour Day"... what fans are hearing is... summer games are for *poop*. And now the league wants to give us more of that? They need to have a talking-to with their broadcast partner before they even start thinking about that.

[B.C.FAN]

The scary thing is guys, there's a very strong movement afoot, especially among the Prairie clubs to move the season back (at least) 2 weeks, which would be disastrous in this market. For whatever reason, things don't get dialed up here until after Labour Day. However, they have concerns about their attendance in November, particularly the prospect of playing playoff games in frigid temps.


DH

The prospect of an earlier start to the season is frightening in this market. For one thing, preseason usually starts just when NHL season ends. It's hard to capture public attention in B.C. when hockey season is underway. Fan interest throughout the league, as measured by attendance and TV viewership, picks up around Labour Day when families are home from summer vacation and kids are back in school.

I have been hoping for years for a Lions schedule that is back-weighted with five games after Labour Day. We finally have that this year. It's still a lousy schedule, with three Saturday or Sunday afternoon games and only one Saturday night game that happens to go head to head with the Canucks home opener across the street, but at least it offers fans a chance to see the on-field product on TV during the summer and attend some games in the fall when playoff battles are in full swing.

[BC 1988]

Smallest crowd I have seen in here in years. Both upper rows of end zones as well as corners sitting basically empty.

I wonder if the practice of keeping blocks of seats off TM might be working against attendance. I bought my ticket yesterday after they finally opened up the section I wanted--Section 227, high enough to be looking straight through the goal posts. (That was were I liked to sit in the Upper Bowl, but this was a good replacement).
The front row of the section and 1/2 of another row was full. Other than that, there was tonnes of room.

I looked at TM for EDM August 6th and it's the same story--Rows AA and above are all-greyed.

It's almost like in addition to having the upper deck fully closed, they're also using tarps — invisible tarps, if you will — to close off the back of some of these sections.

It seems like they're doing it at least partly to create some sense of urgency by giving the illusion — any time someone looks at the map — that there aren't many tickets left. But it won't work for very long as people come to games and see so many blocks of empty seats that they'd thought were already sold.

Speaking of Section 227, that's almost exactly where the new "BC Lions Drumline" sets up shop, isn't it? Must get pretty loud in that area when they play (which only seems to be twice a night near the start and end of games).

I was in the short section over the tunnel entrance where the first row is FF--half of it is 228, and half 227. The Drumline sets up in the front part of Section 228. I didn't think they were all that loud--they had a drum leader who was "conducting" them, and he was careful to turn them off and on at the appropriate times. (Unlike what you'd find at WhiteCaps FC matches.)
Of course, I had the 1040 broadcast coming through my earphones, so it was a bit muted for me.

[sj-roc]

Brook Ward on 1040 as I type has a poll question on tsn1040.ca of "Why aren't you going to Lions games?"

Results so far are:

Games drag on too long, 29%
On field product not exciting enough, 35%
Tickets too expensive, 26%
Haltime show is dull, 9%

They forgot another significant option: Can watch at home on hi-def.

[B.C.FAN]

Brook Ward on 1040 as I type has a poll question on tsn1040.ca of "Why aren't you going to Lions games?"

Results so far are:

Games drag on too long, 29%
On field product not exciting enough, 35%
Tickets too expensive, 26%
Haltime show is dull, 9%

They forgot another significant option: Can watch at home on hi-def.

True, but the results are revealing. The two most popular answers, accounting for roughly two-thirds of all responses, relate to the product on the field. The remaining one-third of responses relate to ticket prices and marketing and in-game atmosphere.

We discussed promotional giveaways in the post-game thread. Friday's game was an extreme example that won't be repeated every week, but I had five tickets and my net cost of those tickets was $4.40 each after calculating the cost of $30 in Tim Hortons gift cards given to three of us, at least $25 in Save On Foods gift cards (based on the minimum card value of $5) given to all five of us, two comped tickets for season tickerholders (I declined the third that I was entitled to claim) and $20 in B.C. Place food vouchers used. My net food cost after coupons was $2 and my parking was free since I used my monthly parking spot downtown. My total expenditure for the five seats was $97 and I received $75 in coupons, for a net expenditure of $22, or $4.40 per seat. That's a cheap ticket.

[dupsdell1]

Brook Ward on 1040 as I type has a poll question on tsn1040.ca of "Why aren't you going to Lions games?"

Results so far are:

Games drag on too long, 29%
On field product not exciting enough, 35%
Tickets too expensive, 26%
Haltime show is dull, 9%

They forgot another significant option: Can watch at home on hi-def.

True, but the results aer revealing. The two most popular answers, accounting for roughly two-thirds of all responses, relate to the product on the field. The remaining one-third of responses relate to ticket prices and marketing and in-game atmosphere.

We discussed promotional giveaways in the post-game thread. Friday's game was an extreme example that won't be repeated every week, but I had five tickets and my net cost of those tickets was $4.40 each after calculating the cost of $30 in Tim Hortons gift cards given to three of us, at least $25 in Save On Foods gift cards (based on the minimum card value of $5) given to all five of us, two comped tickets for season tickerholders (I declined the third that I was entitled to claim) and $20 in B.C. Place food vouchers used. My net food cost after coupons was $2 and my parking was free since I used my monthly parking spot downtown. My total expenditure for the five seats was $97 and I received $75 in coupons, for a net expenditure of $22, or $4.40 per seat. That's a cheap ticket.

Wow how come nobody else has heard about that , I believe it is the product and the pricing , if those two improve you will see bigger crowds also this secret lions give away tickets and promotions should not be a secret that is 101 marketing every one should know about it.

[JohnHenry]

I'm sure almost all of the fans who used to buy Lions tickets still watch on TV. The Lions ratings are very strong. So they're still fans but might not attend the games live. There are many factors to take into account but the congested traffic arteries to come in from south of the Fraser make it difficult if not impossible to make a 7:00 pm evening game.

The popularity of the Seahawks in this market is also a factor for casual fans. Theys can get their football "fix" watching the Seahawks and Lions on HDTV in the comfort of their home. The prospect of driving downtown to pay major league prices for a CFL game might seem less appealing for non-hardcore fans.