Lions get egg on their face re Foley - Lowell Ullrich

[airkore]

Just to clarify - - a verbal agreement is never ever a legally binding contract. Not in sports, not in real life. That's the first thing you learn in the most basic high school law class.

Ever heard that expression about the team that wants it more is usually the team that wins? It was obvious that Barker & Rita genuinely wanted Ricky in Toronto. Buono was more concerned with salary cap flexibility and "breathing room". Questioning the limited impact a potential signee might have on the team isn't exactly the best recruiting method either.

Funny to think that the BC players did more to persuade Ricky to return than the coach/GM did. That should tell you everything you need to know about how much Buono wanted to resign Ricky.

Now Buono gets to spin the situation to look as if he was stood up and shafted - - get some sympathy and buy him a bit of temporary job security while he tries to recover. I feel bad for the BC fans seeing their best player leave town but unfortunately this is just another example of Buono puting his personal feelings/agenda ahead of the team, even if it's in the worst interests of the organization. Just as he let Jamal Johnson leave town...just as he kept Javy Glatt in as a starter...just as he keeps Chapdelaine as the OC.

People generally get off sinking ships rather than climb aboard as they're going down. And make no mistake - - BC is a sinking ship that won't be righted until Buono is finally out of there.

Correct me if i'm wrong but which "ship is sinking" ? Didn't the Lions beat the Argos last weekend ? Lions = 2 game winning streak .......Argos = 3 game losing streak ???

Who's ship is sinking ??

[Gary]

I have to disagree with those who think the Lions mismanaged this thing. No, this is completely on Ricky. You don't give radio interviews announcing your decision to sign with a team and then go sign with another team. I'm really disappointed with what he did, and I've lost a lot of respect for him. Good player, but a completely classless individual.

Gary, I wonder how much Wally really wanted Ricky. He was very late making an offer.

He said he might "help a little bit."

It seems he might have given Ricky the option of changing his mind after talking to his family.

I also think it is possible Wally was sloppy in the negotiations. If he really wanted him, he didn't act like it. If he wanted him, he had him, and let him go. If he wanted him, he didn't really negotiate like it. If he didn't want him that badly, tell him to talk to his family and we will talk again tomorrow.

If Wally got the terms all agreed to (contract) and then said: "Ricky, talk to your family; think about it," giving Ricky permisssion to back out if he wanted, that is very stupid. Wally should have waited before sending the contract in to the league. He screwed the pooch. Sending the contract in shows Wally wanted the deal. And then he let it slip away, either by telling Ricky he could change his mind, or by not fighting it. Sloppy.

Wally's failure to tie it up now looks bad for the team, the league and his owner. The Lions PR department made the signing announcement. Newspapers have had to write retractions. I would call that mismanagement.

Ricky doesn't look good either. Nobody does.

I don't think any of that matters, WCJ. Ricky was on the radio this morning telling the whole world that he had decided to come play for the Lions. Why wouldn't the Lions announce that he had decided to play for them?

As far as announcing the deal before the contract was signed, that happens all the time. I was listening to the team 1040 the other week when Sekeres was on location at the Lions practice. It was Joe McGrath's first practice, several days after it was announced that he was a Lion. Joe's agent was present because he had just signed the contract that morning. Typically, once a player agrees to terms with a team, you expect them to honour their word.

[Blitz]

Yes, but Wally did say to Ricky Foley, in essence, that he wanted him to be sure...

Wally should have just annnounced it.....and it should have been a done deal. Wally's comments to Foley gave him the opportunity to change his mind. Without that opportunity Foley would be here.

I don't believe all this can be laid on Foley....Wally could have closed it by not giving Foley the out when he discussed things with him today...

[Toppy Vann]

It is not bad faith at all. A deal was not done and legally done as Wally said it was not a done deal but there were some language issues so they did the announcement based on his statements of wanting to be here.

It sounds from calls to A. Hunt late at night he then had second thoughts of being closer to home and if the Argos gave him more money he just took it.

Wally is not a bad guy here and he does let guys off the hook as he knows this: Why would you want a guy unhappy here? Unhappy guys on a football team can make others unhappy. It is bad in a locker room so you need to avoid this if at all possible.

Wally deserves criticism at times but I will never criticize him for taking the high road on this type of situation and let players go rather than force them to be in his team and maybe become disruptive.

[WestCoastJoe]

I hear all your points, all well considered.

However, it is just bad business to reach an agreement, and then let the other party go away and decide against it. Bad business. Either you reach agreement, or you don't. In this case they did reach agreement, and then Wally, in effect, tore it up, and then tried to register it anyway. That is chaotic.

If you tell the player, I want you to think about it, and you might change your mind, it is folly to send it to the league.

Look how bad it looks now. For many people, Wally looks foolish. Ricky looks tricky, or insincere, or immature, or worse. The league looks amateurish. Fans are ticked off.

This was poorly managed, however good Wally's intentions might have been. Poorly managed.

One more thing. Ricky was a free agent. Once he and Wally had an agreement, he was a Lions asset. Hardball. If he wants to go to Toronto trade him for a draft pick. This is pro sports, not a little kid's league.

IMO ...

[Solar Max]

I wonder how Ricky would have felt had he caught on the Seahawks' PR, fror example? He'd be just as far from family, yet with strange people in the locker room, (Mom told him not to talk to strangers) and no one to pick him up after practice or tuck him in at night. This could have been devastating for someone who can't seem to take the bus all by themselves.

[Spud387]

As much as I wish Foley was a Lion. We don't know what was going on behind the scenes between him and Wally. Was Foley really that torn in his decision and brought up the family pressure to Wally? If so there is a reason Wally did what he did and repeated it in the 1040 interview. If Foley would truly be unhappy and unmotivated as a Lion because of off field issues or unhappiness then he would be a shell of the person he once was. This way Wally knows if the huge bucks they would be paying would be for the player they once had.

[WestCoastJoe]

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Lions ... story.html

Lions get egg on their face as Foley signs with Argos

By Lowell Ullrich, The Province September 14, 2010

“He called me at 1:04 a.m., (Vancouver time), and he texted me even later,” Aaron Hunt, the injured defensive end of the Lions said, speaking at a point Tuesday when Foley had apparently agreed to rejoin his former club.

"He was doing a lot of flip-flopping with his family. He said he was going back to college. I know he didn’t sleep at all. I had to end the conversation; I said ‘you just got to pray about it, there’s nothing else I can say’.”

It sounds like Ricky is like Brett Favre. Can't make a decision.

But a lot else was said and done in the past 24 hours that hardly ended up reflecting well on Foley or either of the teams owned by David Braley, especially the inability of Lions coach/GM Wally Buono to close a deal because he failed to get a signed contract faxed back from the free agent defensive end.

“We all have egg on our face,” said Buono, who issued a press release last week asking not to be asked about last year’s top Canadian so he could focus in on contract negotiations.

“In 30 years of doing [contracts] I’ve never gone through a situation like this.”

Wally is not the closer. But he did have an agreement with Foley. And then, apparently, Wally told Foley to think it over again and talk to his family. Not a wise move by Wally, in a business sense. And then Wally made it worse by sending in the terms of the agreement to the league, after he apparently had given Foley a window to escape from their agreement.

"... failed to get a signed contract faxed back from the free agent defensive end." Yes. But even without the signature, Buono had him under contract already. Unless he gave Ricky an out by saying he could talk to his family, or if the language was needing correction, and agreed to by both parties.

“We all have egg on our face,” said Buono ...

Yes. Very sloppy how Wally mismanaged this situation.

The 28-year-old Foley set the comedy in motion by agreeing to terms Monday afternoon on a minimum two-year deal, prompting the club to issue a press release after receiving confirmation from agent Paul Sheehy.

“I couldn’t imagine playing anywhere else,” Foley apparently said, according to a Lions news release.

Agreeing to terms = contract.

Comedy or tragedy? A bit of both, but mostly tragedy.

“Hey Canada, not so fast,” Sheehy wrote on his Twitter account.

After numerous other overnight text messages between Foley and Lions personnel coordinator Neil McEvoy, who felt Foley had reconfirmed his intentions at least three times, Buono spoke with Foley first thing Tuesday morning.

The reigning top Canadian went on the Lions’ flagship radio station expressing his deep desire to return.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Then get him to sign so you have proof of the deal you have already agreed upon.

The Lions had arranged for two flight options from Toronto to Vancouver Tuesday. But by the time the Lions had finished practice, Foley had signed a contract with Braley’s other team.

Buono said Foley would play Saturday for the Lions against the Hamilton Tiger-Cats. Moments later, he discovered Foley will be in Toronto to face the Winnipeg Blue Bombers. And Buono was answering questions whether Braley’s dual ownership status should somehow come under another review, when he should have been asked how Argos coach Jim Barker and general manager Adam Rita had fleeced the Lions.

Fleeced. Yes.

But this about-face clearly caught the Lions off-guard, though one player was not surprised, suggesting Foley thought Buono was not aggressive enough with the free agent defensive end beyond making a financial offer.

Very weak negotiating by Buono. Definitely not a closer.

Buono admitted the affair could have been avoided had the club not waited for Foley to arrive in Vancouver to sign his deal.

“That’s usually how we do it, but there was some language in the contract [which needed review],” Buono said. “We reacted as we always do when a player agreed to terms.

Ughhhh Embarrassing from a business point of view. Amateurish. And you had him under contract even without the signature. And you let him go.

“Does he owe an apology? He doesn’t owe me an apology. It reinforces what I’ve always said; don’t make announcements until the player is here and if this wasn’t a high-profile situation it never would have been an issue.

“We’re all slightly embarrassed but maybe we all learn a valuable lesson and the outside world sees how exposed we are about everything. This should never have been public.”

Embarrassed. Oh yes.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

Just to clarify - - a verbal agreement is never ever a legally binding contract. Not in sports, not in real life. That's the first thing you learn in the most basic high school law class.

Funny, that's not what they taught us in law school. I guess I should have paid more attention in high school!

However, it is a moot point. You cannot enforce a contract for personal services against an employee - that is, you cannot force an employee to work for you. Slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833.

The best the employer could hope for would be to prevent the employee from working for the competition, by enforcing some sort of restrictive covenant - which, in a way, is what pro sports contracts are all about. However, as has been pointed out, those must be in writing. Imagine what a gong show it would be if sports teams could prevent their rivals from signing a prospect based on an allegation of a verbal agreement!

Just my long-winded way of saying Wally was right not to bother blustering about our 'legal rights', WCJ. We are out of luck on that front. It's unfortunate Buono let word out about the anticipated signing, but he could not have seen this coming.

Has it occurred to anyone else that Foley might be a little... emotionally unstable? This is not normal behaviour by any stretch of the imagination. I don't buy the theory that he spoke to local media yesterday morning just to yank our chain and mess with Wally (but then, I think Oswald acted alone, so maybe I'm just naive...)

[WestCoastJoe]

Yes, Jimmy, slavery was abolished a long time ago. You can't force someone to work for you.

And Wally did not close the deal, allowing Ricky to talk to his family, etc., after they had reached an agreement.

But I would contend that Wally could still have fought over who has the rights to Ricky as a football asset. I would contend that they may well have had his rights contractually.

He let it go in any number of ways.

[Lion Guy]

Yes, Jimmy, slavery was abolished a long time ago. You can't force someone to work for you.

And Wally did not close the deal, allowing Ricky to talk to his family, etc., after they had reached an agreement.

But I would contend that Wally could still have fought over who has the rights to Ricky as a football asset. I would contend that they may well have had his rights contractually.

He let it go in any number of ways.

I know you have this hate-on for Wally this year but come on man. Wally can't close? Seriously? You mean in all those years he never signed anyone? Wally closes the deals he wants to close. Foley wanted to go home. He's gone. No-one would be saying anything about Wally or the Lions if we were 8-2 or 7-3.

[WestCoastJoe]

Yes, Jimmy, slavery was abolished a long time ago. You can't force someone to work for you.

And Wally did not close the deal, allowing Ricky to talk to his family, etc., after they had reached an agreement.

But I would contend that Wally could still have fought over who has the rights to Ricky as a football asset. I would contend that they may well have had his rights contractually.

He let it go in any number of ways.

I know you have this hate-on for Wally this year but come on man. Wally can't close? Seriously? You mean in all those years he never signed anyone? Wally closes the deals he wants to close. Foley wanted to go home. He's gone. No-one would be saying anything about Wally or the Lions if we were 8-2 or 7-3.

I don't think I have a hate on for Wally. I give him some praise from time to time.

I think there is a good chance he has turned the ship in the right direction. I like his acquisition of McGrath, Newman, Brown, Gore and Lumbala.

I like the way our offence looked better last game. Et cetera.

He sure as heck did not close this deal. He fumbled it and bumbled it.

Wally sent the deal to the league for registration. Although he seemed lukewarm to Ricky, he did want to get him on the Lions. And he could have, and should have got him here.

[Whisperin' Jimmy]

But I would contend that Wally could still have fought over who has the rights to Ricky as a football asset. I would contend that they may well have had his rights contractually.

That is where we disagree. The point I tried to make was that Wally could do nothing, and the Lions have no rights in respect of Foley without a signed contract.

You may be right that Wally could have tried harder to get Foley's signature on the dotted line. But who knows if even that would have made Foley honour his committment? At 3-7, Wally has better uses for his time than a legal peeing match with a pathologically indecisive man-child.

And now that he's an Argo, let me point out that Foley's beard is just creepy.

[WestCoastJoe]

But I would contend that Wally could still have fought over who has the rights to Ricky as a football asset. I would contend that they may well have had his rights contractually.

That is where we disagree. The point I tried to make was that Wally could do nothing, and the Lions have no rights in respect of Foley without a signed contract.

I hear ya, Jimmy.

At some time, I will do some research. Find some cases where two different teams have fought over the playing rights to a player. Who has the valid contract, etc.

I would still contend that the signature is proof of this type of contract, but the verbal aspects prior to that, are still binding. Subject to league approval, et cetera.

[B.C.FAN]

Just to clarify - - a verbal agreement is never ever a legally binding contract. Not in sports, not in real life. That's the first thing you learn in the most basic high school law class.

Funny, that's not what they taught us in law school. I guess I should have paid more attention in high school!

However, it is a moot point. You cannot enforce a contract for personal services against an employee - that is, you cannot force an employee to work for you. Slavery was abolished in the British Empire in 1833.

The best the employer could hope for would be to prevent the employee from working for the competition, by enforcing some sort of restrictive covenant - which, in a way, is what pro sports contracts are all about. However, as has been pointed out, those must be in writing. Imagine what a gong show it would be if sports teams could prevent their rivals from signing a prospect based on an allegation of a verbal agreement!

Just my long-winded way of saying Wally was right not to bother blustering about our 'legal rights', WCJ. We are out of luck on that front. It's unfortunate Buono let word out about the anticipated signing, but he could not have seen this coming.

Has it occurred to anyone else that Foley might be a little... emotionally unstable? This is not normal behaviour by any stretch of the imagination. I don't buy the theory that he spoke to local media yesterday morning just to yank our chain and mess with Wally (but then, I think Oswald acted alone, so maybe I'm just naive...)

Great post. It's over. We may not like it, but we have to move on and find a new rush end.

The good news is that Foley gets to play Winnipeg and Saskatchewan twice, and Hamilton and Edmonton once each, so maybe he can indirectly help the Lions improve their playoff seeding.