WEST FINAL LEOS BOMBERS POST GAME THOUGHTS

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David
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Given how the first few series went, who would have thought it was our defense that would have made 2nd quarter adjustments to stymie the Bombers and not the offense?

I am not taking anything away from Richie Hall the Bomber defense but we made a good defense look even better because it seems that we never tried to counter their defensive formations (I believe the Als have a weak Oline, at least in pass pro, but I am sure Maas will have a good strategy on Sunday to counter the Bombers' aggressiveness!).

I really like Vernon Adams Jr. I believe he's a great teammate, a great leader, and a hugely talented quarterback. At the same time, my observation of VA is that he is a perfectionist. What this means is that he puts enormous pressure on himself and, I believe, gets inside his own head thinking that he has to make the "purrfect" pass all the time. Or the "purrfect" read. Or has to "carry" this team on his shoulders instead of taking himself out of the game (for the betterment of the team!) to get treatment on his knee. Then he holds onto the football too long and gets snowed under. I haven't re-watched the 9 blitzes, but I would say only 3 or 4 (like the 4th quarter blitz that didn't get picked up) were on the Oline. The rest, VA couldn't escape the pocket and 'ate' the football instead of throwing it into the stands.

I don't know the exact point at which he reinjured his knee (1st or 2nd quarter?) but I was really surprised that VA didn't use his legs more as it kept Calgary's defense off-balance all afternoon. That Maksymic didn't use quick hitters and the odd QB draw to counter the Bombers' aggressive pass rush is just perplexing. And, when it became obvious that VA couldn't properly plant his right leg to throw that we didn't see Dane Evans, for a few series at least. :sigh:


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Hazmat
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I'm glad I only watched the last ten minutes of it.
Blitz
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Excellent points David
Then he holds onto the football too long and gets snowed under. I haven't re-watched the 9 blitzes, but I would say only 3 or 4 (like the 4th quarter blitz that didn't get picked up) were on the Oline
I would have only put the onus on the offensive line for 2 sacks. This is pro football. A quarterback should only count on 2.5 seconds at best in the pocket and Adams had well over 3 seconds on most sacks or more.

Adams played like Russell Wilson played in his latter seasons with Seattle....holding onto the football for far too long. Its actually selfish play although at the time it wouldn't feel that way to Adams. The sacks make everyone look bad - the receivers who are blamed for not being open, the offensive coordinator and coach for not having a good game plan or play calls etc. In CFLfootball, a sack on first down creates second and long and a low percentage chance of keeping the drive alive. A second down sack not only kills the drive but also costs field position, as does the first down sack.

In most cases the quarterback could have 1) thrown the football to the check down (there is at least one on every pass play) 2) read the defensive pressure better and slid from the pressure and avoided the sack 3) took off upfield more quickly rather than dicking trying to be an escape artist in the pocket and dicking around pretending to be Houdini 4) thrown the football away (it only has to go past the lne of scrimmage - throw it out of bounds, at a receivers feet, etc.

Sacks are also demoralizing. They are demoralizing for offensive players, the other units watching, and coaches. They also pump up the opposition defense and inspire the opposition offence. Too many of them take away the heart and soul of a team during a game.

The sacks are on Adams. He is a pro quarterback. They get paid a lot more than any other position on a football team to overcome adversity. You can usually tell when Adams is in a funk and when he is, he does not snap out of it quickly. The eyes say it all and you could see Adams eyes even on a big screen televsion set - it was that deer in the headlights look. Chad Kelly really had the deer in the headlights look in the East Semi. He didn't blink. Not once.

But this really was both Adams and Kelly's first year as starters and first playoffs as starters. Adams was so on his game in the West Semi that one could have wrongly assumed that it would not happen, now that he had a taste of playoff experience. But Calgary did not pressure Adams in the West Semi. Montreal also brought pressure in the East Final. Both the Bombers, with Richie Hall and the Als with Noel Thorpe had two experienced coaches leading their defenses. Last year in the West Semi Rourke looked excellent but once again he did not face a lot of pressure. For most of last year's West Final, Rourke struggled with more pressure coming at him.

What could have been done to help. Well first of all, a running game could have set up second and medium, and the reads and options change on second and five. Makes the game much easier for a quarterback. The running game also takes the pressure off and allows the quarterback to settle down.

The coaches can also go to the quick passing attack. With that scenario there is only one read and if the opposition has taken it away the quarterback immediately checks it down. The defense can't take away every quick read. A wide receiver can have an option route of a quick slant or a quick out - they can't take both away. The second read of a passing play can be changed to become the first read for the quarterback. Wide receiver screens can't be taken away for a completion.

Screen passes are tough to defend if the opposition is rushing five or more or blitzing and also taking away first reads. Its impossible to take away the first read of every passing play unless the opposition is keying on only one receiver who is also stationary, lines up to only one side of the field always, and therefore can be bracketed or unless the defense knows our plays.

The first read will generally be where the ball is designed to go for a particular play, regardless of coverage. The play can be changed up until the ball is snapped, so that's where you'll see adjustments made based on coverage. The 2nd and 3rd read are in case the first read is not open at the right time, and there's usually a check down or safety valve option as well which usually comes as a tight end or running back on a short route. Usually the first read will be a receiver with a high likelihood of shaking a defender or getting a crucial block, like on a quick slant or a screen.

Teams do not have the same receiver as the primary receiver on every pass play, with talents as Hollins, Ghrymes, and McInnis all able to be a primary receiver on a pass play, formation does not tip off who the primary receiver will be and the defense does not know the routes the receivers will be running on every given play. Most offences also include option routes for at least one or more receivers on a pass play.

Not all pass play concepts have the primary read or route as the deepest first, intermediate second, then short third. Some concepts are also more horizontal reads, where the QB just reads left to right or right to left. Some pass concepts have the deep pass as the third read, operating as a clear out, while the shortest pass is the primary.

Coaches could also call some quarterback draws and some rollouts (if Adams leg was up to it in this game) therefore cutting the field in half and limiting Adams reads and options. Less thinking. More throwing. Plus easier to throw the football away if needed.

None of that happened on Saturday against the Bombers. It did not happen last year against the Bombers. A change of thinking is needed if we want to get to the Big Dance next season. More of the same will likely mean a similar result.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Hambone
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Was it just me or did the Bombers not take the Philadelphia Eagles Tush Push to another level? Seemed to me the Bombers managed to pick a lot of extra yards on the ground by having 3 and 4 OL get in behind Oliviera then hold him up and keep pushing?
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TheLionKing
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Blitz wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 3:11 pm

None of that happened on Saturday against the Bombers. It did not happen last year against the Bombers. A change of thinking is needed if we want to get to the Big Dance next season. More of the same will likely mean a similar result.
The common denominator here is the Offensive Coordinator.
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almo89
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Hambone wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:40 pm
Was it just me or did the Bombers not take the Philadelphia Eagles Tush Push to another level? Seemed to me the Bombers managed to pick a lot of extra yards on the ground by having 3 and 4 OL get in behind Oliviera then hold him up and keep pushing?
There was one that was very egregious. Oliviera was pushing with his back with forward progress clearly stopped. Refs didn't do anything about it.
don corleone
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Winnipeg has done a good job of positioning their people for the betterment of the team. Mike O'Shea and Adam Bighill on the rules committee, Al Bradbury in the Command Center along with what appears considerable pull in the scheduling department. Every little bit helps they say and hard to argue that the plan is not working. I am reminded of the Homer Simpson quote about people and weasels when I think of it.
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SammyGreene
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almo89 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:16 am
Hambone wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:40 pm
Was it just me or did the Bombers not take the Philadelphia Eagles Tush Push to another level? Seemed to me the Bombers managed to pick a lot of extra yards on the ground by having 3 and 4 OL get in behind Oliviera then hold him up and keep pushing?
There was one that was very egregious. Oliviera was pushing with his back with forward progress clearly stopped. Refs didn't do anything about it.
That was ridiculous. Will it take a serious injury to the ball carrier (like a defender grabbing his leg/ankle as he's being pushed) for the league to stop allowing it.

It's the same way the Bombers get away with not disclosing the extent of injuries or the status of their players right up to kickoff when the league wants team's to be more transparent for betting purposes that launched the daily injury reports. They typically close the 3rd day of practice too.

Still no clue of Bighill's injury and O'Shea hasn't ruled him out for Sunday even though he was in street clothes watching Tuesday's practice.

Ambrosie at yesterday's state of the league address:
The lack of a clear policy regarding injury news makes the CFL feel a little outdated. Leagues such as the NFL have much more comprehensive and honest public injury reports. Even with the league looking to expand their reach into the gambling community and fantasy sports, Ambrosie would not commit to forcing teams to be less secretive.

“We want to show an abundance of respect for our athletes that we’re not making their injury a story before we know what that story is,” he stated.
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SammyGreene
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Great post-mortem breakdown as usual Blitz. The loss was clearly on the shoulders of the offence.
The Western Final was extension of the 2nd half of the Oct. 6 game at BC Place when the Bombers' made adjustments and completely shutdown VA in the 2nd half. In the 6 quarters the Lions' lone TD was the Hail Mary to McInnis.

Very disappointing.
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don corleone wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:47 am
Winnipeg has done a good job of positioning their people for the betterment of the team. Mike O'Shea and Adam Bighill on the rules committee, Al Bradbury in the Command Center along with what appears considerable pull in the scheduling department. Every little bit helps they say and hard to argue that the plan is not working. I am reminded of the Homer Simpson quote about people and weasels when I think of it.
Rick Campbell and Justin McInnis are voting members on the CFL Rules committee. I applauded all those who are volunteering to make our League better.
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David
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Wanna-b-fanboy, maybe you can help me understand something that has been burning since last Saturday. And it's not sour grapes. Just genuine curiosity as I sat there and watched their dominance.

How are the Bombers able to field a veritable all-star team and stay within the CFL's SMS?

Sure, some have taken less to play "For the W," but Collaros alone is making $600K. Then add in stars like Willie Jefferson, Jackson Jeffcoat, Kenny Lawler, Brady Oliveira, Adam Bighill, Nik Demski, Jemarcus Hardrick etc. I don't know how they're doing it. They list 12 men on the 1-game IR, another 3 on the 6-game IR and 6 more on the PR.

The cynic in me was thinking creative accounting, side deals, money under the table. But that may be unfair. I would be interested in your take.


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don corleone
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Wanna-b-fanboy wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 7:48 pm
Rick Campbell and Justin McInnis are voting members on the CFL Rules committee. I applauded all those who are volunteering to make our League better.
Bet you had to look that up.
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Sammy Green
Re: WEST FINAL LEOS BOMBERS POST GAME THOUGHTS

Great post-mortem breakdown as usual Blitz. The loss was clearly on the shoulders of the offence.

The Western Final was extension of the 2nd half of the Oct. 6 game at BC Place when the Bombers' made adjustments and completely shutdown VA in the 2nd half. In the 6 quarters the Lions' lone TD was the Hail Mary to McInnis.

Very disappointing.
Thanks Sammy. Yes, the loss was clearly on the shoulders of the offence but the reality is that both our offence and our defense are not designed to defeat the Bombers in a playoff game. Offensively, we were not designed to do so last year, even with Rourke and Butler nor were we this year with Adams and Mizzell. Our defense run blitzed from the second quarter forward but had the Bombers had Schoen in the lineup and a healthier receiver lineup that strategy would have been more challenged.

Our B.C. Lions offence is a Spread style offence. It spreads out five or six receivers for a pass dominant style, employs the quarterback in the shotgun exclusively, and utilizes a scatback tailback in an ace backfield most of the time. When we do run the football, we use zone blocking for inside zone read runs with the occasional fly sweep to stretch the defense horizontally with the run game. Its textbook Spread offence. Defensively, our defense is mostly designed to stop a spread offence. We use quick but light defensive ends to rush the quarterback, utilize a nickel back exclusively, rather than a third linebacker, and sometimes use a dime back in situational situations.

The Introduction of the Spread

Back to the Spread offence. It first became became popular in the U.S at the college level. John Hufnagel introduced it to the pro level in Calgary in the 90’s. Back then it was novel and innovative. It created severe mismatches. It often resulted in receivers as Allan Pitts being covered by a slow linebacker or two defenders covering three receivers in the traditional zone coverage that was played at that time. Doug Flutie’s ability to run made it even tougher to defend. The zone blocking for the running attack was also novel, enabling smaller, quicker offensive linemen to get good angles and for tailbacks to find holes.

But eventually defenses innovated. Don Matthews led the innovation. He blitzed the hell out of it. He replaced slow outside linebackers with what were in essence larger defensive backs. Then Dave Ritchie zone blitzed it and mixed in three man rushes (he even only rushed two on occasion). One could find Brent Johnson on occasion intercepting a pass 15 yards downfield on a zone blitz. Ritchie would use 8 or even 9 defensive backs on occasion. Situational defensive football, with different defensive packages became the norm, with linebackers being replaced by defensive backs on passing situations. The Spread 'zone read' inside running play , was defensed by utilizing huge defensive tackles who could plug the running game inside.

The Spread offence, by the middle of the first decade of the CFL was employed by all CFL offences. But most CFL defenses adapted with the utilization of different style of personnel and by strategy. But the Spread Offence, like a drug addiction, continued unabated as a CFL offence. For a short time, in Montreal, under Mark Trestman, a more West Coast style of offence was introduced to the CFL and had some early success. The RPO offence was tried for a short time by offensive coordinators as McAdoo and Jarious Jackson to dismal results, mostly because the starting quarterback, as well as most of the offensive personnel, had all been trained since early college in Spread systems.

The Bombers Say Good Bye to the Spread

But it was the Winnipeg Blue Bombers under Paul LaPolice and Buck Pierce who have most recognized that a different style of offence than an exclusive spread offence was a key to success. The Bombers decided the best way to attack CFL defences was to run the football well and play action of it, CFL defenses are designed to stop the pass, personnel and strategy wise. The Bombers went out and recruited a different style of offensive lineman than the typical zone blocking zone read type that most teams use. They double team at the point of attack, whether that is an undersized defensive end or an undersized defensive tackle.

The Bombers also use everyone to block for the run. Receivers are often used as lead blockers. Canadian receivers as Nic Demski and Rasheed Bailey, two Canadian receivers, are also used as change up runners and lead blockers and not just used for a rare fly sweep. Johnny Augustine, another Canadian, is also utilized as a tailback. Our Leos only rarely use anyone other than the import tailback in the run game and when we do its only for a rare fly sweep to a Lucky Whitehead or an Alexander Hollins.

An important key to the Bombers offence is that they use two Canadian running backs in Oliviera and Augustine. Olivera is a big, strong back who gained the majority of his yards this season after first contact whereas Augustine is a quick hard running back who had the same average yds. per carry this season as Olivera. Prior to Oliviera and Augustine in the Bombers backfield, Andrew Harris blossomed in Winnipeg where he won the Most Outstanding Canadian award after leading the league in rushing and setting the record for single-season receptions by a running back.

Offence in Leo Land

Meanwhile, back here in Leo Land, we used a standard zone blocking scheme, an import lightweight scatback who doesn’t break tackles and can’t pass block, and the inside zone read almost exclusively when we do run the football. We could have designed our offence differently to have the best chanc to beat a team as the Bombers in the playoffs but we chose not to. Their defensive ends in Jefferson and Jeffcoat are lighter than our own defensive ends. Double team blocks using our offensive tackle and Cottoy and running off tackle could have paid huge dividends and not allowed the Bombers defensive ends to tee off and pass rush every play. Play action would also have slowed them down. But just mentioning Jevon Cottoy is a good example of why the Bombers are going to the Grey Cup again and we are not.

Jevon Cottoy was an obvious talent but we did not know how to utilize him in our plug and play spread offence for far too long. This season Cottoy was used more often and gained over 800 yds of receiving on 59 receptions. But this is a Canadian football player who is 6’5 inches, 230 pounds, who has great hands, is fast, and very difficult to bring down. Yet this is a receiver we targeted once in the West Final. Think the Bombers were taking him away as a first read? Think again. Here was a receiver we should have targeted quickly and often. He is a coverage nightmare for a linebacker or a defensive back.

Defensively, we have a ton of defensive players who can get after a quarterback. But a defense also has to stop the run when needed. We went into the West Final with 9 (count ‘em) nine defensive lineman, we got one sack, and we had to run blitz on almost every play from the second quarter on because the Bombers ran the football 9 times out of 10 on their first drive and mauled us like we were a high school defense taking on the pros.

The Bombers build around their talent. We plug and play guys into a spread offence that we have been watching unabated since the 2003 season, with the exception of the 2007 season - "You know, you know, just 'execute'".

The NFL was mostly spread offence for a while but the Patriots led the way to abandoning it . Before New England lit up defenses with a variety of schemes, NFL offenses were largely all the same, bland and homogenized, just as what still mostly exists in the CFL today.

Offensive Scheme Variety

In the NFL now there is so much offensive scheme variety. The Shanahan Offence, now implemented in many NFL franchises, does not spread out at all and instead uses fullbacks, two back sets, and tight ends while basing its offence off the stretch outside run. The McVey and Shanahan offences are all about condensed formations. The Seahawks line up with three tight ends at times with their Pistol Offence, an offence that features a diverse rushing attack, along with its high tight end usage.

In the NFL we see Option Offences, RPO dominant offences. Wide Zone Offences, and what I will call Throwback Offences or Old Pro offences that feature power running games, play action vertical shots, and in-breaking routes. Many NFL offences incorporate a direct snap from center now as an aspect of offence and are no longer exclusively in the shotgun.

Copycat Behavior Means Being Behind the Curve

Our Leos have won six Grey Cups since 1954. That is 6 Grey Cups in almost 70 years. The time has more than arrived for us to figure out that what we are doing needs changing if we want to get to the Big Dance other than hoping the Bombers get old. Its been a long, long time since our Leos played in the Grey Cup game. With only 8 CFL franchises the odds should have been winning the Grey Cup game every 8 seasons. With either five West teams ( even four West teams at various times) the odds should be that our Leos, played in the game every five or four seasons. With a number of present CFL franchises in deep trouble or significant duress at various times (Winnipeg, Saskatchewan, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa) the odds should have even been better. Those stats put it all in appropriate perspective.

Smart coaches have always have been more creative and diverse than their counterparts. If you are using the most copied offensive system in CFL football, you are definitely not ahead of the curve. We are still using a 1990's offensive system that defenses adapted to decades ago. Its why Buck Pierce is calling plays in the Grey Cup and Maksymic is watching.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Toppy Vann
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don corleone wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 8:47 am
Winnipeg has done a good job of positioning their people for the betterment of the team. Mike O'Shea and Adam Bighill on the rules committee, Al Bradbury in the Command Center along with what appears considerable pull in the scheduling department. Every little bit helps they say and hard to argue that the plan is not working. I am reminded of the Homer Simpson quote about people and weasels when I think of it.
Adam Bighill's best friend or one of them so he told me a few years ago when he introduced his friend to me in Port Moody Rec Centre gym is none other than Solomon Elimianian who was on the CFLPA committees and how is President so that might be a factor on his role on rules.
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Toppy Vann
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almo89 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 1:16 am
Hambone wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:40 pm
Was it just me or did the Bombers not take the Philadelphia Eagles Tush Push to another level? Seemed to me the Bombers managed to pick a lot of extra yards on the ground by having 3 and 4 OL get in behind Oliviera then hold him up and keep pushing?
There was one that was very egregious. Oliviera was pushing with his back with forward progress clearly stopped. Refs didn't do anything about it.
Over the last few years, it's looked like rugby at times.

When I played the rules clearly outlawed what they termed "tandem butt" IIRC the term.
If a RB was stuck at the one the QB and other backs could do nothing as it got called if you pushed from the back.

Ironically the CFL rules have this in it:
Article 11 — Push Blocking
It shall be illegal for defensive players to push-block a teammate towards the other team’s dead ball line on any play where the offense lines up in a place kick formation including kicked convert attempts and field goal attempts.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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