There has been a lot of speculation in the WSF threads about who may or may not be available for the West Final, so it's probably time to start a West Final thread. The big questions for the Lions will be the health of national linebackers and special teamers Ben Hladik and Jack Hinsperger, as well as the status of WR Lucky Whitehead, who dressed but did not see any action in the WSF. DE Sione Teuhema is also expected to return from his one-game suspension, which will likely relegate Marcus Moore back to the practice roster.
For the Bombers, leading receiver Dalton Schoen is expected to miss the West Final with an ankle injury picked up in the Bombers' rubber match against the Lions last month. Schoen is the favourite target of Zach Collaros, especially when he scrambles. His absence changes the Bomber offence and allows defences to focus more on outside receivers Kenny Lawler and Rasheed Bailey. Lawler was a Lion-killer this year. He missed the first B.C.-Winnipeg game due to immigration issues but averaged 8 catches for 149 yards in the 2 subsequent games, both won by the Bombers. Versatile national slotback Nic Demski also did not practice last week but is expected to play on Saturday. Bailey was limited on Saturday with a suspected hamstring injury but "will be good" for the West Final, according to head coach Mike O'Shea. The Bombers have added veteran Markeith Ambles to their practice roster in advance of the West Final as a possible replacement for Schoen.
We should know more about the health of both rosters today. The first official team injury reports are expected Tuesday.
Winnipeg Sun article
West Final: Lions at Bombers
Moderator: Team Captains
IF Schoen is unable to go that is a big blow to the Bombers passing game, and might mean they lean on Oliveira and the run even more?
Lions fortunate to have depth behind Hladik - and the D might be tempted to go some with 3 big, true LBs (Lokombo, Woods & Varga) to try to shut-down Oliveira's power inside running ? And Menard could/should be playing some reps at DT, not just a few at DE.
Not sure why Whitehead did not see the field for at least some plays? - he provides a deep threat that can have the DBs backing off; a smart offence goes for lots of variety, not just sticking with pre-determined starters and same old plays; I've totally given up on Mackie being deployed by getting the ball - on carries or pass receptions - to see if he can truck for yardage; and no back-up / change of pace RB behind Mizzell's limited, often tentative running is not smart either IMO.
IMO it's going to take the good (or great) VA showing up and able to throw strikes all over the field using all the outstanding receiver corps AND to run for yardage, to be able to go into the Peg and win.
Lions fortunate to have depth behind Hladik - and the D might be tempted to go some with 3 big, true LBs (Lokombo, Woods & Varga) to try to shut-down Oliveira's power inside running ? And Menard could/should be playing some reps at DT, not just a few at DE.
Not sure why Whitehead did not see the field for at least some plays? - he provides a deep threat that can have the DBs backing off; a smart offence goes for lots of variety, not just sticking with pre-determined starters and same old plays; I've totally given up on Mackie being deployed by getting the ball - on carries or pass receptions - to see if he can truck for yardage; and no back-up / change of pace RB behind Mizzell's limited, often tentative running is not smart either IMO.
IMO it's going to take the good (or great) VA showing up and able to throw strikes all over the field using all the outstanding receiver corps AND to run for yardage, to be able to go into the Peg and win.
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Wanna-b-fanboy
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Bomber Offense will be fine without Schoen- next man up. Would we be better? Sure, but I think the main issue for the Bombers is the Defence- how the D goes will determine the game.
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Toppy Vann
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Schoen, Demski, Bailey, Lawler (cold) hurting is interesting and Schoen at risk of not playing removes a vital player for Collaros.
Markeith Ambles is a good addition to their PR but as Lawler says in that WPG article the Bombers' success is that the receivers are detailed oriented and Schoen's routes aren't exactly simple to grasp given how they deploy them. He is likely a quick study but it could hurt them if Markeith has to play as a dialed in QB and REC isn't less likely to emerge from two weeks of practice.
Lucky Whitehead not seeing the field versus Calgary was possible situational thinking - we're doing well so no need to change things up. Being in the stadium, unlike if it was a game on TV, I didn't think of Whitehead at all. I wonder how he took that. Not sure how he's wired to deal with not playing. Some athletes take it far harder than others.
Markeith Ambles is a good addition to their PR but as Lawler says in that WPG article the Bombers' success is that the receivers are detailed oriented and Schoen's routes aren't exactly simple to grasp given how they deploy them. He is likely a quick study but it could hurt them if Markeith has to play as a dialed in QB and REC isn't less likely to emerge from two weeks of practice.
I wasn't sure why Ambles didn't stick in Calgary this year. I can see why after his injury, Argos didn't need him as they're more loaded at REC with the oldestt Devaris Daniels at 30 with Ambles 31.“It’s the details,” Lawler said. “The details are what set us apart. We have such smart guys that know so much and see so much on the defence that we can do a lot more within our details. Being a vet, he’s going to pick it up. We might need to call on his name down the stretch.”
Lucky Whitehead not seeing the field versus Calgary was possible situational thinking - we're doing well so no need to change things up. Being in the stadium, unlike if it was a game on TV, I didn't think of Whitehead at all. I wonder how he took that. Not sure how he's wired to deal with not playing. Some athletes take it far harder than others.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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DanoT
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I would like to see Lucky Whitehead inserted into the starting lineup and have McInnis as the 6th (backup) receiver. The big body, long arms, that McInnis brings is already provided by Cottoy at a very high level. Lucky's speed could be a bigger factor vs having two big bodied guys out there. And Mizzell getting screen and bubble screen passes along with Cottoy as a dump-off guy already provides a dangerous short pass game. Bring on Lucky's speed, even as a decoy that takes a defender deep and out of the play.
Agreed. McInnis is a big body who can back up or relieve Cottoy, Rhymes and Hatcher in normal sets or replace another receiver in short yardage packages.DanoT wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 12:15 pmI would like to see Lucky Whitehead inserted into the starting lineup and have McInnis as the 6th (backup) receiver. The big body, long arms, that McInnis brings is already provided by Cottoy at a very high level. Lucky's speed could be a bigger factor vs having two big bodied guys out there. And Mizzell getting screen and bubble screen passes along with Cottoy as a dump-off guy already provides a dangerous short pass game. Bring on Lucky's speed, even as a decoy that takes a defender deep and out of the play.
I respectfully see it differently boys!! Oh oh!! 
Its a lively discussion!!
McInnis ran a 5.57 40 yard time in college. Lucky ran a 4.4. No question he was fast for a while. But Lucky is now 31 and his top end speed peaked before this season. It would not surprise me, that today, in a 40 yard dash, that McInnis would win. Plus McInnis height and jumping ability advantage him on a 50/50 football plus his length and long arms also are an advantage on a deep throw.
We've watched Lucky all season struggle to get separation even on short underneath throws and one of the reasons for that is that defensive backs do not treat him like a deep threat liability. We've attempted a lot of wide receiver screens to Lucky this year, as well as the occasional fly sweep to try to get him involved. Rotating in a fresh Lucky on a longer drive and have him run a go pattern to clear out an area might advantage us but right now Lucky is not a big target, he is not a deep target, he does not get much separation, and McInnis is the better choice.
Hollins (7 receptions over 30yds), Hatcher (6 receptions over 30 yds) and McInnis (4 receptions over 30 yds) and Rhymes (3 receptions over 30 yds) were all better deep threats than Lucky this season. McInnis was an excellent weapon inside the red zone.
Our Leos coaching staff made a choice to start McInnis over Lucky for a playoff game, after starting Lucky all season. They did not do that lightly, knowing that Lucky is popular with teammates and with fans. They would not have done that if there was little to separate the skill set both bring to the offence. Obviously, to make that change, at this point in the season, they had to feel strongly that McInnis was not only a better choice but a much better choice and I concur.
Lucky will be gone next year. McInnis will still be here! That is the 'lucky' I see in this discussion.
The Bombers are focusing on getting Adams off his game for the West Final.
Some excerpts from the Winnipeg Sun
Get him out of his comfort zone,” Hall said. “Make him have to work. I’m not saying it was easy for him, but he looked very in-sync last week. We’ve got to disrupt him.
“How do you get him out of his comfort zone? You give him different looks, you do different things. You attack him in different ways, from a coverage perspective, from a running perspective. You win first down, you make him one dimensional, you do a lot of things.”[/quote]
BUCK PIERCE
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Its a lively discussion!!McInnis ran a 5.57 40 yard time in college. Lucky ran a 4.4. No question he was fast for a while. But Lucky is now 31 and his top end speed peaked before this season. It would not surprise me, that today, in a 40 yard dash, that McInnis would win. Plus McInnis height and jumping ability advantage him on a 50/50 football plus his length and long arms also are an advantage on a deep throw.
We've watched Lucky all season struggle to get separation even on short underneath throws and one of the reasons for that is that defensive backs do not treat him like a deep threat liability. We've attempted a lot of wide receiver screens to Lucky this year, as well as the occasional fly sweep to try to get him involved. Rotating in a fresh Lucky on a longer drive and have him run a go pattern to clear out an area might advantage us but right now Lucky is not a big target, he is not a deep target, he does not get much separation, and McInnis is the better choice.
Hollins (7 receptions over 30yds), Hatcher (6 receptions over 30 yds) and McInnis (4 receptions over 30 yds) and Rhymes (3 receptions over 30 yds) were all better deep threats than Lucky this season. McInnis was an excellent weapon inside the red zone.
Our Leos coaching staff made a choice to start McInnis over Lucky for a playoff game, after starting Lucky all season. They did not do that lightly, knowing that Lucky is popular with teammates and with fans. They would not have done that if there was little to separate the skill set both bring to the offence. Obviously, to make that change, at this point in the season, they had to feel strongly that McInnis was not only a better choice but a much better choice and I concur.
Lucky will be gone next year. McInnis will still be here! That is the 'lucky' I see in this discussion.
The Bombers are focusing on getting Adams off his game for the West Final.
Some excerpts from the Winnipeg Sun
When the Bombers return to practice on Tuesday to get ready for the West Final, they’ll certainly be focusing on how to contain Adams and his array of receivers, that includes Keon Hatcher, Alexander Hollins, Dominique Rhymes and Lucky Whitehead.RICHIE HALL
What’s the play to handle V.A.? Bombers preparing for Lions ‘nearly-purrfect’ QB
Blue Bombers defensive co-ordinator Richie Hall will have his hands full game planning for Lions quarterback Vernon Adams, who is coming off the best game of his CFL career in the West semifinal.
Adams was an absolute machine for the Lions, throwing for 413 yards and two touchdowns, and adding 54 yards and three more touchdowns on the ground. It was a performance for the ages by a veteran player who is coming off his best of seven seasons in the CFL, and it sent a message to the Winnipeg Blue Bombers that the Lions are going to be as force to be reckoned with in this Saturday’s West Final at IG Field.
“You look at the game last week, it was nearly purrfect,” Bombers defensive co-ordinator Richie Hall said Monday when asked about what Adams brings to the table. “He’s playing with a great deal of confidence. He’s reading it well, he’s throwing it well. They seem to be in a good sync. He should feel good about himself because they’re playing very good football right now.”
The Bombers had the luxury of sitting back and watching the West Final because they clinched first place in the division, with a 14-4 record. It was expected that the 12-6 Lions would finish off the 6-12 Stampeders, but the Adams performance was Doug Flutie-esque, and that got people’s attention.
Get him out of his comfort zone,” Hall said. “Make him have to work. I’m not saying it was easy for him, but he looked very in-sync last week. We’ve got to disrupt him.
“How do you get him out of his comfort zone? You give him different looks, you do different things. You attack him in different ways, from a coverage perspective, from a running perspective. You win first down, you make him one dimensional, you do a lot of things.”[/quote]
BUCK PIERCE
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A lot of growth there,” Bombers offensive co-ordinator Buck Pierce said.
“He’s a tremendous athlete, always has been, but he’s really coming into his own. He’s playing with a lot of confidence right now. He’s got enormous faith in his receiving corps and he’s really a very exciting player. I think it’s great for our league.
Vernon has obviously put the work in, (Lions offensive co-ordinator) Jordan Maksymic has done a great job of putting him in positions to allow him to grow, not just putting him in a box and saying ‘This is what you are.’”
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Hambone
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Trust a guy from Cumberland to chime in on a discussion about Lucky.Blitz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:08 pmI respectfully see it differently boys!! Oh oh!!
McInnis ran a 5.57 40 yard time in college. Lucky ran a 4.4. No question he was fast for a while. But Lucky is now 31 and his top end speed peaked before this season. It would not surprise me, that today, in a 40 yard dash, that McInnis would win. Plus McInnis height and jumping ability advantage him on a 50/50 football plus his length and long arms also are an advantage on a deep throw.
We've watched Lucky all season struggle to get separation even on short underneath throws and one of the reasons for that is that defensive backs do not treat him like a deep threat liability. We've attempted a lot of wide receiver screens to Lucky this year, as well as the occasional fly sweep to try to get him involved. Rotating in a fresh Lucky on a longer drive and have him run a go pattern to clear out an area might advantage us but right now Lucky is not a big target, he is not a deep target, he does not get much separation, and McInnis is the better choice.
Hollins (7 receptions over 30yds), Hatcher (6 receptions over 30 yds) and McInnis (4 receptions over 30 yds) and Rhymes (3 receptions over 30 yds) were all better deep threats than Lucky this season. McInnis was an excellent weapon inside the red zone.
Our Leos coaching staff made a choice to start McInnis over Lucky for a playoff game, after starting Lucky all season. They did not do that lightly, knowing that Lucky is popular with teammates and with fans. They would not have done that if there was little to separate the skill set both bring to the offence. Obviously, to make that change, at this point in the season, they had to feel strongly that McInnis was not only a better choice but a much better choice and I concur.
Lucky will be gone next year. McInnis will still be here! That is the 'lucky' I see in this discussion.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
Hambone posted
Trust a guy from Cumberland to chime in on a discussion about Lucky.
You've more than got me Hambone!! 
Now pass me a Blue!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
According to Steve Ewen, Rick Campbell said after Monday’s practice that Ben Hladik is doubtful for Saturday but hasn’t been ruled out.
https://x.com/steveewen/status/17216326 ... gGjb_94D6A
https://x.com/steveewen/status/17216326 ... gGjb_94D6A
Best ever playoff performance by a Leos quarterback? Thinking maybe Joe Kapp? How about Doug Flutie..that would be a good choice. Or maybe Jerry Tagge? Nope. How about Kent Austin or maybe Danny McManus. Here is a thought...perhaps Damon Allan had one of his special outings? No?
Then it had to be Casey Printers? Wasn't him? Perhaps Dave Dickenson? Jonathan Jennings had an outstanding semi-final performance against the Bombers, pulling out a come from behind victory? No? Well it just has to be Travis Lulay who has the best ever playoff performance. Well it wasn't. Didn't Nathan Rourke come out tossing bullets last year against Calgary in the West Final? It wasn't him? No it wasn't.
Going into Saturday's contest, the best playoff performance ever by a Leo quaterback was a 375 yard passing performance by Roy Dewalt.
On Saturday Vernon Adams threw for 411 yards, threw for two touchdowns, ran for three more, and had no interceptions. Big Play VA is now the Leos record holder for best quarterback performance in a playoff game.
Then it had to be Casey Printers? Wasn't him? Perhaps Dave Dickenson? Jonathan Jennings had an outstanding semi-final performance against the Bombers, pulling out a come from behind victory? No? Well it just has to be Travis Lulay who has the best ever playoff performance. Well it wasn't. Didn't Nathan Rourke come out tossing bullets last year against Calgary in the West Final? It wasn't him? No it wasn't.
Going into Saturday's contest, the best playoff performance ever by a Leo quaterback was a 375 yard passing performance by Roy Dewalt.
On Saturday Vernon Adams threw for 411 yards, threw for two touchdowns, ran for three more, and had no interceptions. Big Play VA is now the Leos record holder for best quarterback performance in a playoff game.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Toppy Vann
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For me the most exciting playoff performance by a BC Lion QB was Danny McManus in Calgary from the blocked FG in the ice/snow to that last drive that consumed the clock with the pass to Darren Flutie. Even the call on the broadcast was great with Chris Cuthbert and Dan Kepley. Lions down 36-31 so only a TD wins. Kent Austin hurt and Danny Mac takes over.Blitz wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:00 pmBest ever playoff performance by a Leos quarterback? Thinking maybe Joe Kapp? How about Doug Flutie..that would be a good choice. Or maybe Jerry Tagge? Nope. How about Kent Austin or maybe Danny McManus. Here is a thought...perhaps Damon Allan had one of his special outings? No?
Then it had to be Casey Printers? Wasn't him? Perhaps Dave Dickenson? Jonathan Jennings had an outstanding semi-final performance against the Bombers, pulling out a come from behind victory? No? Well it just has to be Travis Lulay who has the best ever playoff performance. Well it wasn't. Didn't Nathan Rourke come out tossing bullets last year against Calgary in the West Final? It wasn't him? No it wasn't.
Going into Saturday's contest, the best playoff performance ever by a Leo quaterback was a 375 yard passing performance by Roy Dewalt.
On Saturday Vernon Adams threw for 411 yards, threw for two touchdowns, ran for three more, and had no interceptions. Big Play VA is now the Leos record holder for best quarterback performance in a playoff game.
Why Wally tried to kick a FG there was mind-blowing in those conditions.
BC Lions should watch this entire game as if this doesn't inspire players nothing will.
Look at how long this last drive takes.
Started off with a Ray Alexander block FG and Doug Flutie hits it out of bounds and Lions ST coach Jody Allen runs on the field where you can hear Dave Ritchie screening and then Danny Mac drives down the field.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
According to Winnipeg radio play-by-play announcer Derek Taylor, there was no sign of Dalton Schoen or Nic Demski at the Bombers' first practice of the week Tuesday.
https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1721956117796757732?s=20
https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1721956117796757732?s=20
The Lions aren't winning this game. The defensive scheme isn't built to stop whichever of the two Bombers offenses show up, which I would imagine will be the run heavy one, and the Bombers O Line is better than the Lions D line. They can beat us by out muscling us in the run, or they can beat us by out scheming us in the air and in man to man battles. They've shown they can do both, and I believe they'll choose the former path this week.
Blitz is right above on how Lucky has faded out of the offense as a lid lifter, and if he can't lift the lid with his speed he has no use on this offense. Personally, though, he's a really cool dude and I've appreciated him being here. This offense has no lid lifter, which is good enough to beat most teams but not good enough to beat either Winnipeg or Toronto. Starting McInnis was the correct move against Calgyra and as good of a choice as any this week as well.
This defensive base alignment, which shifted to more of a Stubler style bend but don't break at mid year, which neither stopped the run nor stopped Winnipeg's passing attack late in the season. It's not a winning strategy this week either, especially when paired with this offense, which is chunk gain driven rather than TOP driven.
When Rick Ball was here a few years ago, he opined in one of the WDF losses that the Lions were a good team that lost out to a great one. Same thing is on deck here.
I remain, as always, happy to be wrong.
No. Cottoy has abilities as an in-line de-facto Tight End that McInnis does not. A lot of the offense is predicated around where Cottoy lines up and what he does/who he blocks. The two are very different players and are used differently schematically. Cottoy will beat you up in small areas in a way McInnis will not.I would like to see Lucky Whitehead inserted into the starting lineup and have McInnis as the 6th (backup) receiver. The big body, long arms, that McInnis brings is already provided by Cottoy at a very high level.
Blitz is right above on how Lucky has faded out of the offense as a lid lifter, and if he can't lift the lid with his speed he has no use on this offense. Personally, though, he's a really cool dude and I've appreciated him being here. This offense has no lid lifter, which is good enough to beat most teams but not good enough to beat either Winnipeg or Toronto. Starting McInnis was the correct move against Calgyra and as good of a choice as any this week as well.
This defensive base alignment, which shifted to more of a Stubler style bend but don't break at mid year, which neither stopped the run nor stopped Winnipeg's passing attack late in the season. It's not a winning strategy this week either, especially when paired with this offense, which is chunk gain driven rather than TOP driven.
When Rick Ball was here a few years ago, he opined in one of the WDF losses that the Lions were a good team that lost out to a great one. Same thing is on deck here.
I remain, as always, happy to be wrong.
The Bombers were without a lot of receivers Tuesday, according to their official injury report. Dalton Schoen (ankle), Nic Demski, (ankle), Rasheed Bailey (knee) and Jeremy Murphy (hip, on 6-game list) all were absent on the first day of practice. Defensive end Jackson Jeffcoat (hip) also sat out.
The Lions were without defensive back Jalon Edwards-Cooper (shoulder), linebackers Jack Hinsperger (head/shoulder) and Ben Hladik (knee) and running back Kienan Lafrance (triceps). Garry Peters (knee), who hobbled off the field after colliding with Hladik in the WSF but later returned to action, was a limited participant. Global linebacker Maxime Rouyer, who has been on the 6-game injured list with an oblique injury, was a full participant and is a likely replacement for Hinsperger/Hladik on special teams.
BOMBERS, LIONS INJURY REPORTS
Bomber radio play-by-play broadcaster Derek Taylor suggests that Demski and Bailey will likely play on Saturday. He says recently acquired veteran receiver Markeith Ambles got some reps with the first-team offence on Wednesday.
https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1722318100266107071?s=20
The Lions were without defensive back Jalon Edwards-Cooper (shoulder), linebackers Jack Hinsperger (head/shoulder) and Ben Hladik (knee) and running back Kienan Lafrance (triceps). Garry Peters (knee), who hobbled off the field after colliding with Hladik in the WSF but later returned to action, was a limited participant. Global linebacker Maxime Rouyer, who has been on the 6-game injured list with an oblique injury, was a full participant and is a likely replacement for Hinsperger/Hladik on special teams.
BOMBERS, LIONS INJURY REPORTS
Bomber radio play-by-play broadcaster Derek Taylor suggests that Demski and Bailey will likely play on Saturday. He says recently acquired veteran receiver Markeith Ambles got some reps with the first-team offence on Wednesday.
https://x.com/DTonOB/status/1722318100266107071?s=20