B.C. defence 2023: A tale of 2 half seasons

[B.C.FAN]

There has been plenty of discussion on this board about the Lions' tendency to play more soft zone coverage in the second half of the season, allowing opponents to move the ball easily through the air and sustain drives. The stats back it up. Through the first 9 games of the 2023 season, the B.C. defence led the league in allowing the fewest offensive yards per game (284), fewest offensive TDs (1.2 per game) and fewest offensive points (15.6 per game). They've allowed roughly twice as many points and TDs in the second half of the season.

Here is a comparison of the B.C. defence through the first 9 games of the season and the 8 games played to date in the second half of the season:

Opponent offensive points per game:
First 9: 15.6
Last 8: 28.4

Opponent offensive TDs per game:
First 9: 1.2
Last 8: 2.8

Opponent rushing yards per game:
First 9: 77
Last 8: 110

Opponent passing yards per game:
First 9: 231
Last 8: 291

[SammyGreene]

Great work BC FAN to confirm our worst fears. I always thought post Rourke we had to be a much more balanced team relying on all three phases to close the gap on the Bombers. That’s what made that early season win in Winnipeg and others so encouraging.

Now we seem to be boom or bust on VA putting up huge passing numbers each week.

If we get another crack at Winnipeg in the West Final I would much rather see a heavy douse of man coverage and steady blitzing to force Collaros to make those throws in likely fridgid conditions.

Wonder what veterans like Peters, Sayles and Lee think that their DC doesn’t have a whole lot of faith in their ability to play man? This is not an inexperienced or bargain basement secondary.

I’m sure 6 other fan bases would love to change spots with us.
A win Friday would give the Lions their best record since 2012. The organization deserves a ton of praise for that, especially without Rourke.
But the ultimate measuring stick in the West is the Bombers and I can’t see how this year’s playoffs will play out any differently with now ultra conservative defensive approach & a one dimensional albeit still very good offence that isn't exactly built for November prairie playoff football.

[Blitz]

SammyGreene
TEAM CAPTAIN
Re: B.C. defence 2023: A tale of 2 half seasons
MON OCT 16, 2023 11:06 PM

Great work BC FAN to confirm our worst fears. I always thought post Rourke we had to be a much more balanced team relying on all three phases to close the gap on the Bombers. That’s what made that early season win in Winnipeg and others so encouraging.

Now we seem to be boom or bust on VA putting up huge passing numbers each week.

If we get another crack at Winnipeg in the West Final I would much rather see a heavy douse of man coverage and steady blitzing to force Collaros to make those throws in likely fridgid conditions.

Wonder what veterans like Peters, Sayles and Lee think that their DC doesn’t have a whole lot of faith in their ability to play man? This is not an inexperienced or bargain basement secondary.

I’m sure 6 other fan bases would love to change spots with us.

A win Friday would give the Lions their best record since 2012. The organization deserves a ton of praise for that, especially without Rourke.
But the ultimate measuring stick in the West is the Bombers and I can’t see how this year’s playoffs will play out any differently with now ultra conservative defensive approach & a one dimensional albeit still very good offence that isn't exactly built for November prairie playoff football.

Its a very significant shift in performance and CFL offences did not improve in he second half relative to how our defense played. Therefore our defense has regressed.

The question is why? The areas to look at, of course, are personnel, scheme, game planning, and in game adjustments.

B.C. Fan, you've always focused, at least to a degree, on what pass defenses we are playing in a game...e.g: man, zone, combo zone, dropping nine, blitzing (man and zone blitz).

What are you seeing?

[B.C.FAN]

Its a very significant shift in performance and CFL offences did not improve in he second half relative to how our defense played. Therefore our defense has regressed.

The question is why? The areas to look at, of course, are personnel, scheme, game planning, and in game adjustments.

B.C. Fan, you've always focused, at least to a degree, on what pass defenses we are playing in a game...e.g: man, zone, combo zone, dropping nine, blitzing (man and zone blitz).

What are you seeing?

Like all teams, the Lions mix up their coverages, but what I’ve noticed is a tendency to play a variety of zone defences in the second half of the season in crucial situations where they’re trying to protect a lead, and instead keep allowing opponents to march downfield with a series of easy underneath throws. When they’ve blitzed, it’s more likely been zone blitzes off the edge where opponents have an easy throw to the vacated zone, or when they’ve dropped Mathieu Betts into coverage to allow a linebacker or DB to rush the QB.

Zone defence puts a lot of pressure on linebackers to disrupt throwing lanes and break up short passes, and that’s probably the weakest link in the Lions’ pass defence. I’d rather see Ben Hladik rush the QB than drop into the middle zone. It was great to see Josh Woods fool Bo Levi Mitchell for a pick-6 last week but I hadn’t been impressed with Woods’ pass defence up to that point this season.

In the first half of the season, the B.C. defence attacked regularly, forcing QBs to make quick throws and allowing DBs to play more man coverage. The defence sometimes bent but didn’t often break. The Lions’ sack rate hasn’t tailed off in the second half of the season but their pass defence has, and the overall defence has tired at the end of games because they’ve allowed opponents to control the ball and the clock.

[Toppy Vann]

Its a very significant shift in performance and CFL offences did not improve in he second half relative to how our defense played. Therefore our defense has regressed.

The question is why? The areas to look at, of course, are personnel, scheme, game planning, and in game adjustments.

B.C. Fan, you've always focused, at least to a degree, on what pass defenses we are playing in a game...e.g: man, zone, combo zone, dropping nine, blitzing (man and zone blitz).

What are you seeing?

Like all teams, the Lions mix up their coverages, but what I’ve noticed is a tendency to play a variety of zone defences in the second half of the season in crucial situations where they’re trying to protect a lead, and instead keep allowing opponents to march downfield with a series of easy underneath throws. When they’ve blitzed, it’s more likely been zone blitzes off the edge where opponents have an easy throw to the vacated zone, or when they’ve dropped Mathieu Betts into coverage to allow a linebacker or DB to rush the QB.

Zone defence puts a lot of pressure on linebackers to disrupt throwing lanes and break up short passes, and that’s probably the weakest link in the Lions’ pass defence. I’d rather see Ben Hladik rush the QB than drop into the middle zone. It was great to see Josh Woods fool Bo Levi Mitchell for a pick-6 last week but I hadn’t been impressed with Woods’ pass defence up to that point this season.

In the first half of the season, the B.C. defence attacked regularly, forcing QBs to make quick throws and allowing DBs to play more man coverage. The defence sometimes bent but didn’t often break. The Lions’ sack rate hasn’t tailed off in the second half of the season but their pass defence has, and the overall defence has tired at the end of games because they’ve allowed opponents to control the ball and the clock.

Great take BC Fan.

The stats and Lion tendencies aren't in dispute with this fan.
A question more than a comment is whether some of the fall-off in stats are that teams are just better prepared in the second half of the season having faced the Lions DEF.

I'm not sure I want more man coverage as the highly astute Sammy Greene suggests but forcing Collaros to make quick throws is tactically a good thing. My sense is that the top QBs and top receivers relish man coverage (Collaros and Kelly come to mind).

When it seems that a DEF plays soft and lets the passes underneath pile up, one question is what message is the coach giving them. If it's Rich Stubler (RIP) as DC, I think it was Corey Mace who said that he didn't want to see stats post-game (words like that). The stat he looked as was if they won.

An article from 2010:

Stubler’s defence reached its zenith in Toronto three years ago when it held opponents to an average of only 15.9 points a game. No CFL defence has allowed fewer points-per-game in 25 years, according to the league’s head statistician.

The scheme placed its fate in the hands of the veteran players on the field, especially with middle linebacker O’Shea and safety Steinauer. It operated on the principle that it would allow the offence to run the ball to a point, knowing teams in Canada would eventually have to resort to the pass.

As a result, Toronto defenders were often on the field for long stretches, but rarely for opposing touchdown celebrations. And because of what it asked of veterans, it may have helped groom future coaches.

https://www.cfl.ca/2010/02/26/the-coach ... h-stubler/

[Coast Mountain Lion]

An article from 2010:

Stubler’s defence reached its zenith in Toronto three years ago when it held opponents to an average of only 15.9 points a game. No CFL defence has allowed fewer points-per-game in 25 years, according to the league’s head statistician.

The scheme placed its fate in the hands of the veteran players on the field, especially with middle linebacker O’Shea and safety Steinauer. It operated on the principle that it would allow the offence to run the ball to a point, knowing teams in Canada would eventually have to resort to the pass.

As a result, Toronto defenders were often on the field for long stretches, but rarely for opposing touchdown celebrations. And because of what it asked of veterans, it may have helped groom future coaches.

https://www.cfl.ca/2010/02/26/the-coach ... h-stubler/

This was written in 2010? Rather prescient...

[Toppy Vann]

An article from 2010:

Stubler’s defence reached its zenith in Toronto three years ago when it held opponents to an average of only 15.9 points a game. No CFL defence has allowed fewer points-per-game in 25 years, according to the league’s head statistician.

The scheme placed its fate in the hands of the veteran players on the field, especially with middle linebacker O’Shea and safety Steinauer. It operated on the principle that it would allow the offence to run the ball to a point, knowing teams in Canada would eventually have to resort to the pass.

As a result, Toronto defenders were often on the field for long stretches, but rarely for opposing touchdown celebrations. And because of what it asked of veterans, it may have helped groom future coaches.

https://www.cfl.ca/2010/02/26/the-coach ... h-stubler/

This was written in 2010? Rather prescient...

LOL....


Yes. I think time of possession even now is that way with the Argos.

[Coast Mountain Lion]

An article from 2010:



https://www.cfl.ca/2010/02/26/the-coach ... h-stubler/

This was written in 2010? Rather prescient...

LOL....


Yes. I think time of possession even now is that way with the Argos.

I hadn't thought about that. I was just observing the bit about "future coaches", with a couple of notable then-Argo players being mentioned in passing.

[TheLionKing]

Two big breaks for the Lions to start the game

[TheLionKing]

Nothing fancy what the Stamps are doing. Run right up the middle

[Sir Purrcival]

Well, so much for that. Calgary marching.

[Sir Purrcival]

Yep, nothing fancy about what the Lions are doing either. Sucking right now.

[TheLionKing]

Adams looking terrible

[TheLionKing]

Is that the Lions first first down ?