Who will be moving on?

[maxlion]

According to 3DownNation reporter John Hodge, Purifoy was due a $30,000 off-season roster bonus on Feb. 15, 2023.

The CFLPA have achieved some significant improvements under the new leadership group there but this issue should never be happening.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/04/b-c- ... z-purifoy/

It used to happen a fair amount in the Wally years but to me this always smacks of signing agreements in less than good faith.

Guaranteed contracts would be structured differently. Everyone had full knowledge going in. No lack of good faith in my opinion.

[Hambone]

I think some don't really grasp these roster bonuses. They are not a bonus in the true sense of the word. They are not extra money above and beyond their regular salary. They are in fact a portion of their total salary that is paid as a lump sum prior to the season. They are no more than an advance on their salary if you will. The players like them because they can use them for tax or other purposes and if the team pays them out it makes it tougher to let them go even if somebody else outperforms them in camp.

[Gridiron Ernie]

Who will be moving on? The flip-side of the thread subject being, who might be moving into the Lions' den? Should be a separate thread perhaps. Dunno. But looking over the free agent list from across the league, I note Eugene Lewis's name, and wonder (given that Vernon Adams is likely our starting QB this coming season) wonder if their connection from days with Montreal would warrant Lions looking to make Mr. Lewis an offer. We're not exactly hurting at the receiver position, given what we already have, but we have lost Burnham. Likely other priorities at other positions, but just a thought, since they did go after Kenny Lawler last year.

[Hambone]

Who will be moving on? The flip-side of the thread subject being, who might be moving into the Lions' den? Should be a separate thread perhaps. Dunno. But looking over the free agent list from across the league, I note Eugene Lewis's name, and wonder (given that Vernon Adams is likely our starting QB this coming season) wonder if their connection from days with Montreal would warrant Lions looking to make Mr. Lewis an offer. We're not exactly hurting at the receiver position, given what we already have, but we have lost Burnham. Likely other priorities at other positions, but just a thought, since they did go after Kenny Lawler last year.

Who might be moving in will be dictated by who is moving on. Despite losing Burnham receiver is not such an area outside of upgrading NAT depth. That could become a bigger priority if Cottoy finally lands an NFL offer.

The two main areas they could be targeting in free agency would be OL and secondary. Of their 2022 OL starters only Kent Perkins and Phil Norman are under contract. They need to get at least 2 out of the other 3 starters extended or will be looking at free agency where options this year are much slimmer than last year. There are now only 22 pending OL FAs left and that's including the supposedly retired Ucambre Williams.

With Breaux's retirement and Purifoy's release it becomes essential to extend TJ Lee and Garry Peters. I think they have the pieces in place to replace Breaux and Purifoy but if they don't bring Lee and Peters back they will have to go shopping.

[OV:54-40]

Matt Betts getting a try-out with Jacksonville (per 3 Down); maybe Henry Burris put in a word for him? Young prospect DEs in Archibald & Pickett could soften the blow of losing Betts.

Purifoy was a vet with a lot of versatility (could play OLB or in the secondary; plus was a pretty decent kick-off returner), good hitter, but IMO, not a top level starting safety or S-OLB; good guy to have around as a back-up or extra defender for certain packages, AND, if he was a real vet leader (and could place an order in a restaurant peacefully) AND had a modest $M$ cost; but otherwise - can easily find younger and likely better IMO.

Might be a good idea to draft a safety prospect/project; mind find a guy who is a quality starter and sooner than later; unheralded Scott Hutter really played well IMO and established himself when Jones gave him a chance in EE land last year - i thought he was the best safety in the West last season.

[B.C.FAN]

I agree with Hambone that receiver and DB are not areas where the Lions need American free agents if they re-sign Lee and Peters. The Lions could use an upgrade to their national depth at both position groups, though.

Jevon Cottoy was the Lions' only viable national starting receiver. Jacob Scarfone is a versatile backup but is not starting calibre. Keon Hatcher can neatly slide inside to replace Bryan Burnham, as he did during Burnham's two injury stints last year (35 catches for 554 yards and 4 TDs in 9 starts replacing Burnham; 35 catches for 489 yards and 1 TD in 9 starts as WR). Alexander Hollins proved he can capably start at WR, with a healthy Josh Pearson as a backup receiver and occasional anthem singer.

In the secondary, Hakeem Johnson is a pending national free agent. He received lots of practice and game reps at corner in the past two seasons but was supplanted by rookie national Adrian Greene on the active roster late in the 2022 season.

[Toppy Vann]

I believe the players actually want the roster bonus. This is so veterans are not cut in training camp and out of a place to play as teams have set rosters after free agency. By being released now, Purifoy now becomes an option for other teams now, before free agency.

I hadn't considered that as part of the rationale for players agreeing to an off-season roster bonus like Purifoy did.
That reason is definitely an upside to a player!

I only looked at this issue from two perspectives:

1. A team cash flow management issue where teams got players to defer the money until they have season ticket money flowing in.

2. Are teams signing contracts in good faith with deferred payments that many might knowingly believe they'll never pay?

My sense is that if I'm a player I want the money in the contract season but I get that point about a TC cut avoidance.

It'd be interesting to see how many and by age/experience in the CFL actually get these bonuses paid versus be released.

During Wally years in BC, it seemed a fair number were let go before their best before date who coincidentally had roster bonuses in Feb coming up.

I'm not sure what the league stats for this might be and I don't intend to try to do a study lol.

[Hambone]

I believe the players actually want the roster bonus. This is so veterans are not cut in training camp and out of a place to play as teams have set rosters after free agency. By being released now, Purifoy now becomes an option for other teams now, before free agency.

I hadn't considered that as part of the rationale for players agreeing to an off-season roster bonus like Purifoy did.
That reason is definitely an upside to a player!

I only looked at this issue from two perspectives:

1. A team cash flow management issue where teams got players to defer the money until they have season ticket money flowing in.

2. Are teams signing contracts in good faith with deferred payments that many might knowingly believe they'll never pay?

My sense is that if I'm a player I want the money in the contract season but I get that point about a TC cut avoidance.

It'd be interesting to see how many and by age/experience in the CFL actually get these bonuses paid versus be released.

During Wally years in BC, it seemed a fair number were let go before their best before date who coincidentally had roster bonuses in Feb coming up.

I'm not sure what the league stats for this might be and I don't intend to try to do a study lol.

I'm not sure I'm catching you on 1 and 2 Toppy. These roster bonuses such as the one Purifoy was due to receive are payment IN ADVANCE for their services for the 2023 season. Interesting to note that if the report was accurate Purifoy was due for it on February 15th which would be the day AFTER CFL free agency starts. They did him a favour releasing him now when they could have seen how they made out in Day 1 of free agency before letting him go.

As for deferred compensation there is language in the CBA covering that in ARTICLE 28: NEGOTIATION OF INDIVIDUAL PLAYER CONTRACTS:

5. A Player shall be allowed to participate in a deferred compensation plan (salary deferral
arrangement) provided that his Member Club consents to provide such a plan for the Player. If a Member Club agrees to establish a deferred compensation plan, the Member Club shall name a company, which shall be insured with the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation to administer such deferred compensation plan and shall provide the name of that company to the Players. Before a Member Club establishes a deferred compensation plan, all documentation required to establish such salary deferral arrangement shall be submitted to the C.F.L.P.A. for approval.

Any deferred compensation plan which has been established by a Member Club prior to
June 6th, 2010, shall remain in full force and effect and:
(i) the Member Club shall take all steps to ensure each Player who is a participant in a deferred compensation plan and who consents shall continue to be paid all amounts accrued by the deferred compensation plan in each calendar year, in accordance with the practices of the Member Club in making payments to Players from such deferred compensation
plan before June 6th, 2010;
(ii) shall not be amended in any manner whatsoever; and
(iii) shall not be collapsed by the Member Club;
without the prior written consent of the Player who is a participant in such deferred
compensation plan.

When it comes to Wally I think he was quite OK to offer the roster bonuses to veteran starters as long as he was 100% confident they would make the team out of camp. Where they become an issue is when they are in the second year of a contract. Obviously the team is expecting the player to play in the first year of a contract unless they are a depth player in which case they won't get offered one anyways. At times when Year 2 rolled around Wally would try to renegotiate the deal and bonuses often adding a second year to the new deal. The player usually had the option to agree to renegotiate or likely be released. Remember Korey Banks' departure from BC? Korey and Wally had managed to redo the deals every year with Banks getting a roster or signing bonus as Wally had the utmost confidence Banks would make the club. In that final renegotiating exercise the then 34 year old Banks was again expecting his usual upfront money payment. This time Wally wasn't sure Banks would stick so he refused and just offered a normal salary. Banks got all hissy and Wally traded him to Winnipeg where he was a healthy scratch for the season opener. Winnipeg tried to trade him but finding no takers cut him before Week 2.

[Toppy Vann]

I believe the players actually want the roster bonus. This is so veterans are not cut in training camp and out of a place to play as teams have set rosters after free agency. By being released now, Purifoy now becomes an option for other teams now, before free agency.

I hadn't considered that as part of the rationale for players agreeing to an off-season roster bonus like Purifoy did.
That reason is definitely an upside to a player!

I only looked at this issue from two perspectives:

1. A team cash flow management issue where teams got players to defer the money until they have season ticket money flowing in.

2. Are teams signing contracts in good faith with deferred payments that many might knowingly believe they'll never pay?

My sense is that if I'm a player I want the money in the contract season but I get that point about a TC cut avoidance.

It'd be interesting to see how many and by age/experience in the CFL actually get these bonuses paid versus be released.

During Wally years in BC, it seemed a fair number were let go before their best before date who coincidentally had roster bonuses in Feb coming up.

I'm not sure what the league stats for this might be and I don't intend to try to do a study lol.

I'm not sure I'm catching you on 1 and 2 Toppy. These roster bonuses such as the one Purifoy was due to receive are payment IN ADVANCE for their services for the 2023 season. Interesting to note that if the report was accurate Purifoy was due for it on February 15th which would be the day AFTER CFL free agency starts. They did him a favour releasing him now when they could have seen how they made out in Day 1 of free agency before letting him go.

As for deferred compensation there is language in the CBA covering that in ARTICLE 28: NEGOTIATION OF INDIVIDUAL PLAYER CONTRACTS:

5. A Player shall be allowed to participate in a deferred compensation plan (salary deferral
arrangement) provided that his Member Club consents to provide such a plan for the Player. If a Member Club agrees to establish a deferred compensation plan, the Member Club shall name a company, which shall be insured with the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation to administer such deferred compensation plan and shall provide the name of that company to the Players. Before a Member Club establishes a deferred compensation plan, all documentation required to establish such salary deferral arrangement shall be submitted to the C.F.L.P.A. for approval.

Any deferred compensation plan which has been established by a Member Club prior to
June 6th, 2010, shall remain in full force and effect and:
(i) the Member Club shall take all steps to ensure each Player who is a participant in a deferred compensation plan and who consents shall continue to be paid all amounts accrued by the deferred compensation plan in each calendar year, in accordance with the practices of the Member Club in making payments to Players from such deferred compensation
plan before June 6th, 2010;
(ii) shall not be amended in any manner whatsoever; and
(iii) shall not be collapsed by the Member Club;
without the prior written consent of the Player who is a participant in such deferred
compensation plan.

When it comes to Wally I think he was quite OK to offer the roster bonuses to veteran starters as long as he was 100% confident they would make the team out of camp. Where they become an issue is when they are in the second year of a contract. Obviously the team is expecting the player to play in the first year of a contract unless they are a depth player in which case they won't get offered one anyways. At times when Year 2 rolled around Wally would try to renegotiate the deal and bonuses often adding a second year to the new deal. The player usually had the option to agree to renegotiate or likely be released. Remember Korey Banks' departure from BC? Korey and Wally had managed to redo the deals every year with Banks getting a roster or signing bonus as Wally had the utmost confidence Banks would make the club. In that final renegotiating exercise the then 34 year old Banks was again expecting his usual upfront money payment. This time Wally wasn't sure Banks would stick so he refused and just offered a normal salary. Banks got all hissy and Wally traded him to Winnipeg where he was a healthy scratch for the season opener. Winnipeg tried to trade him but finding no takers cut him before Week 2.

Hambone:

Based on what you say I now don't sse yours and others' views that the Purifoy $30 K was to be a payment in advance of 2023.

This puts a totally different light on my thinking as per 1. and 2. above.

In this context I assume if you are right if the player re-signs he's getting paid before TC and that I think is the Korey Banks deal you mentioned.

Your answer makes my two issues irrelevant here.


I'm doubtful these roster bonuses are structured, salary deferral arrangements under Canadian tax provisions as if your next season's contract is for more money, you're making your 2023 tax payables higher.


I could see a $250-450K player entering into a DCP like a QB where he decides he's maybe got 3 to 5 years to play at $400K but can live on $100K and will then take the money after his career is done while he might be figuring out what to do next or getting further education or taking a coaching assistant role. But it's not a wise move if he were to continue earning that kind of money post-football.

There are specific exceptions to this statutory definition of Salary Deferral which include the following:

a plan or arrangement under which a taxpayer has a right to receive a bonus or similar payment in respect of services rendered by the taxpayer in a taxation year to be paid within 3 years following the end of the year, or

[/quote]

https://taxpage.com/articles-and-tips/s ... yer-guide/


UNRELATED TO ABOVE:

This website if true shows what players got paid. I plugged in Chris Streveler.

It is not always greener every year in the NFL if this is true.

https://overthecap.com/player/chris-streveler/8733

[Toppy Vann]

It's interesting how many CFL players are getting workouts down south including the Philpotts.
Also a bit frustrating that the CFL money isn't attractive enough to get even Canadians wanting to stay home.


9th workout for Nathan Rourke is with the Bengals. He is really doing some due diligence.

B.C. Lions’ quarterback Nathan Rourke is scheduled to work out for the Cincinnati Bengals on Friday, according to a report from TSN’s Farhan Lalji.

The visit marks the Canadian pivot’s ninth NFL workout this offseason, following tryouts for the Las Vegas Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, Denver Broncos, Minnesota Vikings, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Indianapolis Colts, Arizona Cardinals, and Los Angeles Chargers.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/06/cana ... ls-report/


3 Down says other CFL players also working out now for Bengals and it seems it was all today with the Bengals and the four CFLers:

Bombers:
Dalton Schoen
Tyrell Ford

Riders:
Kian Schaffer-Baker

Matthieu Betts was worked out by Jaguars.

https://3downnation.com/2023/01/05/b-c- ... e-jaguars/

[SammyGreene]

That was quick. Purifoy signs with Elks. Now we wait and see if the Lions will go any cheaper in the secondary with Lee and Peters looming FAs.

[B.C.FAN]

The Lions have signed FB David Mackie, the team’s CFLPA rep, to an extension through 2024. He was eligible to become a free agent next month.
https://www.bclions.com/2023/01/18/retu ... hrough-24/

[Hambone]

The Lions have signed FB David Mackie, the team’s CFLPA rep, to an extension through 2024. He was eligible to become a free agent next month.
https://www.bclions.com/2023/01/18/retu ... hrough-24/

Excellent signing. In a very short period of time Mackie has become one of the key pieces in the Lions leadership core.

[Toppy Vann]

The Lions have signed FB David Mackie, the team’s CFLPA rep, to an extension through 2024. He was eligible to become a free agent next month.
https://www.bclions.com/2023/01/18/retu ... hrough-24/

Excellent signing. In a very short period of time Mackie has become one of the key pieces in the Lions leadership core.

Can the OC come up with some more run/pass plays that get Mackie the ball.

Toronto, Winnipeg use of FBs make it more exciting.

[OV:54-40]

The Lions have signed FB David Mackie, the team’s CFLPA rep, to an extension through 2024. He was eligible to become a free agent next month.
https://www.bclions.com/2023/01/18/retu ... hrough-24/

Excellent signing. In a very short period of time Mackie has become one of the key pieces in the Lions leadership core.

Can the OC come up with some more run/pass plays that get Mackie the ball.

Toronto, Winnipeg use of FBs make it more exciting.

I thought it was surprising to almost stunning that Mackie rarely saw the ball again after that superb performance when he got the ball lots in relief of the starting RB that game; but then, I thought of it some more and realized it's CFL offences we're talking and only standard, same old look and play-calling will do. One of the biggest plays by the RedBlacks offence last season was in the opening game of the year, when little used Marco Dubois released from lining-up at TE and was wide-open down field for a 50+ yard gainer; didn't see that offensive genius LaPo try that play one more time in the entire season ??? - wowzers.

And Mackie should really be called an H-back IMO for today's CFL game; guy who plays part-time on offence and lines up both at fullback or as a tight end as need be, but rarely gets the ball. The Argos used to use Declan Cross quite a bit but that was with previous coaches and was gone basically in the Dinwiddie offence; don';t see the Bombers using an H-back much at all - unless you are referring to both team using bigger power backs (Ouellette & Olivieira) as inside power runners ? - which I think Mackie could do well on in a few carries a game.

The Ticats actually deployed their H-back (Ex Laval player Girand-Gauthier) as a pass catcher more than any other CFL team last season; and this was after using the first overall draft pick (LOL) on a US college ball tight end - Jake Burt - the season before; but he has not done much for them and maybe some injury issues ?