Western Final Nov.13: BC at Winnipeg

[Lion Guy]

What the actual F was Rourke doing?

He wasted over a minute.

Not his fault at all. The players should've been given ten plays before taking the field. The crowd noise was just too much.

Fair enough. The it was on the coaches, in any event it was piss poor.

[Walt67]

What the actual F was Rourke doing?

He wasted over a minute.

Not his fault at all. The players should've been given ten plays before taking the field. The crowd noise was just too much.

Fair enough. The it was on the coaches, in any event it was piss poor.

Geez, as it was too painful to watch I was walking the 4th quarter with Moj on the radio - and boy, he was losing it as the Lions lost about 2-3 plays due to horrific time management. Of course that was criminal given how the team actually had a change for the comeback despite the strength of the Bombers' game.

[OV:54-40]

Bombers are running down our undersized defensive line's throat

Actually, the Lions have a bigger front 7 than the Bombers and by quite a bit.

Banks at DT at 290 is bigger than either of the Bombers solid but pretty average DTs of Thomas & Sayles who are listed at 274 & 282; Menard at 260 & Betts at 250 are bigger than either of the Bombers DE duo of Jefferson & Jeffcoat who are both listed at mid 240s; and Bighill is hardly big for a MLB at just under 220, while Hladik goes at 235; Williams is a 230 pound range LB and the Bummers were using lightweight (under 200) Alden Darby at one OLB spot.

SO - maybe it's more the superior run blocking of the veteran Bomers O-line, plus that Oliveira is a big load RB that they are willing to bang with lots of carries; as opposed to Butler who is not much on size or power, and maybe the Lions O-line and O-line coach don't get good run blocking plus their OC has not much commitment to the ground game unless it works early (very typical CFL offensive "thinking").

IF the Lions want a better run game for big games, they might need some new or different thinking from their offensive brain-trust; plus maybe get a bigger power back to compliment Butler (who i like as a shifty, sometimes dangerous back, he just isn't strong enough to carry a 15 to 20 carries a game load); look what 250 pound load Mackie did in that Argo game when he was given plenty of chances with the ball.

A strong run game needs some good components - like a good run blocking O-line and a couple of good RBs, IMO; but also real faith in it to stick with it and not abandon it - that's on offensive coaching - game plan & philosophy.

[Walt67]

That was a "learning process" game. For the first time in his very young career, Rourke didn't play beyond his years. Growing pains that will pay dividends. If Rourke is back in 2023 (I think the odds are better now) the Lions should be the favourites to win the Grey Cup next season. Don't be surprised if they are playing for back-to-back championships at home in 2024.

A ton has been discussed and written about Rourke's dedication to game study so it seems natural he will lean a lot about playing on a last drive after all those many, many wasted seconds as time drained out of the Lions' season on the frozen field in Winnipeg.

[Toppy Vann]

Rourke may have played the worst game of his career but he still had 299 yards passing. Collaros had 178 yards. The Bombers won it with their superior running game and Grant’s punt return TD.

You got that right as did Belize who suggests this will be a growth experience for Nathan Rourke as Bo Levi says Maier shortcomings in the semi will be for his career.

I put some of Rourke's challenges today on play calling early on where at one point Butler is 5 for 5.

Some on rust, some on conditions and a bit on a few Rec mess-ups.

If you have to rely on big plays to win all the time like BC did in the second half you'll lose more than you'll win.

it's a team game and ST coverage for the Grant TD was a killer. They need someone who's always going to be down there making a tackle like the old days.

The Grant TD had multi-missed tackles that bordered on inexcusable.

The normally good punter on the blocked punt saved by a roughing call was noted by Suitor for possibly not being deep enough.

The Bombers have so much breadth and depth in play calling plus more than one guy who can run that teams have to look at that team as the team to emulate as they set a high standard. Look at how they use QBs also.

Fans calling for Vernon Adams for a series or more were right. Put VA in the slot to threaten a pass even then run off that. Anything that varies the theme.

Today Dinnwiddie proved as a coach they had a use for two backs and did so with passing not just runs.

[maxlion]

Actually, the Lions have a bigger front 7 than the Bombers and by quite a bit.

Banks at DT at 290 is bigger than either of the Bombers solid but pretty average DTs of Thomas & Sayles who are listed at 274 & 282; Menard at 260 & Betts at 250 are bigger than either of the Bombers DE duo of Jefferson & Jeffcoat who are both listed at mid 240s; and Bighill is hardly big for a MLB at just under 220, while Hladik goes at 235; Williams is a 230 pound range LB and the Bummers were using lightweight (under 200) Alden Darby at one OLB spot.

SO - maybe it's more the superior run blocking of the veteran Bomers O-line, plus that Oliveira is a big load RB that they are willing to bang with lots of carries; as opposed to Butler who is not much on size or power, and maybe the Lions O-line and O-line coach don't get good run blocking plus their OC has not much commitment to the ground game unless it works early (very typical CFL offensive "thinking").

IF the Lions want a better run game for big games, they might need some new or different thinking from their offensive brain-trust; plus maybe get a bigger power back to compliment Butler (who i like as a shifty, sometimes dangerous back, he just isn't strong enough to carry a 15 to 20 carries a game load); look what 250 pound load Mackie did in that Argo game when he was given plenty of chances with the ball.

A strong run game needs some good components - like a good run blocking O-line and a couple of good RBs, IMO; but also real faith in it to stick with it and not abandon it - that's on offensive coaching - game plan & philosophy.

Good points about the size of players. For some reason, Bombers just seem to play bigger.

Bombers are also quite creative in their run game with their use of Oliveira, Demski, Prukop, and in other games Augustine.

I disagree that the Lions abandoned the run game this game or this year. They were still running the ball late into the third quarter even though it was completely ineffective. If anything, they should have abandoned it earlier.

Butler had an excellent year but looked off this game. Fumbled the ball, couldn't make a catch, totally ineffective on the run. Not sure if the lingering injury from last week was affecting him, or what looked like an injury on the fumble, or worn down after a long year, or the Bombers were just that good. Maybe a combination of things. I agree that having a second back to spell him off would be a good thing, whether Mackie or someone else.

[B.C.FAN]

The Lions need to make signing a national RB a priority for next year to give Butler a break and create a change of pace. Most teams have one or two quality national RBs. The Lions used Mackie as an emergency back when Butler was hurt but he’s not an option as a No. 2 back.

[OV:54-40]

The Lions need to make signing a national RB a priority for next year to give Butler a break and create a change of pace. Most teams have one or two quality national RBs. The Lions used Mackie as an emergency back when Butler was hurt but he’s not an option as a No. 2 back.

Well, next draft there are a couple of outstanding RBs up: Chase Brown (Illinois) - leading all NCAA backs in rushing thus far this year = good bet he gets an NFL call.

If anyone is interesting in another I'd urge u to watch the upcoming Western game(s) - to see 230 pound load Keon Edwards of the Mustangs - one of the most impressive U Sports backs I have seen in a long time - great vision and explosive burst up the middle to break many big gainers; doubt he has 4.4 type speed but, balance & acceleration thru the hole are off the charts outstanding. Not much CFL draft rankings notice for this guy yet; and he might be written off by CFL scouts as just a product of the Mustangs strong run game behind a powerful O-Line - converted to fullback by CFL thinkers? So, he might be available mid to late rounds ?

Mustangs play Laval next in the Semi (only on Quebec/TVA Sports as far as i know for regular TV?); and then if they win, the Vanier will be on CBC (to play winner of Sask. vs. StFx)

[B.C.FAN]

According to Matt Baker’s postgame recap, James Butler suffered an apparent shoulder injury early in the game. That may have accounted for his poor production, with just 4 yards rushing on 6 carries. Again, not having a backup RB gave the Lions little option to take him out of the game.

[TheLionKing]

What plagued the Lions all season bit the Lions again - inability to stop the run and special teams coverage. The warts were there all season and was never adequately addressed.

[ddanny]

I am sure they will in the off season

[SammyGreene]

Keon Hatcher in playoffs:
15 catches 295 yards
In an emergency role: 4 punt returns for 13.2 yard average. #4 has been a monster these past 2 weeks.

Besides the ever reliable Sean Whyte, Mathieu Betts was our best off season signing.

Would everyone have liked out chances if we knew we would hold Schoen & Ellingson to a combined 36 yards on 3 catches albeit 1 for TD. I can’t even remember Ellingson being targeted.

Why do we have so much trouble with the Bombers running game?
They seem to routinely overwhelm our d-line and are through to our 2nd layer with little resistance.
Would Stove Richardson been a game-changer today?
Conversely, our running game can get zero traction against the Bombers. Butler 6 carries today for 4 yards was abysmal after 95 a week earlier.

[OV:54-40]

According to Matt Baker’s postgame recap, James Butler suffered an apparent shoulder injury early in the game. That may have accounted for his poor production, with just 4 yards rushing on 6 carries. Again, not having a backup RB gave the Lions little option to take him out of the game.

How in the world is David Mackie's over 100 yards from scrimmage in relief of Butler vs. the Argos early in the season "little option" ??? What - because he's listed as a fullback?; cause he's Canadian? You should apply as assistant OC. Too be in denial or make excuses for not noticing a player's outstanding play for the team is mind-boggling to me. Be like a rookie DE going into a game and making 4 sacks and 8 tackles, and then he sits on the bench the rest of the season while the rest of the D-Line does little or struggles.

[maxlion]

According to Matt Baker’s postgame recap, James Butler suffered an apparent shoulder injury early in the game. That may have accounted for his poor production, with just 4 yards rushing on 6 carries. Again, not having a backup RB gave the Lions little option to take him out of the game.

How in the world is David Mackie's over 100 yards from scrimmage in relief of Butler vs. the Argos early in the season "little option" ??? What - because he's listed as a fullback?; cause he's Canadian? You should apply as assistant OC. Too be in denial or make excuses for not noticing a player's outstanding play for the team is mind-boggling to me. Be like a rookie DE going into a game and making 4 sacks and 8 tackles, and then he sits on the bench the rest of the season while the rest of the D-Line does little or struggles.

The game on June 25 was an interesting outlier in Mackie's career. In that game, he had 16 carries for 90 yards. In the remaining 4 years of his career, he has had 3 carries for 4 yards (all this year).

I think it would be accurate to say that he has not had the confidence of multiple coaching staffs to be a regular part of the offence.

I doubt that being Canadian has anything to do with it, especially for a team that gave the starting QB job to an unproven Canadian player. There have been lots of other Canadian backs who have made an impact around the league.

Perhaps the coaches have insight into his limitations that are not apparent to us on the outside. It is surprising, though, that after a career game like that, he wasn't given more opportunity to show his ability.

[OV:54-40]

According to Matt Baker’s postgame recap, James Butler suffered an apparent shoulder injury early in the game. That may have accounted for his poor production, with just 4 yards rushing on 6 carries. Again, not having a backup RB gave the Lions little option to take him out of the game.

How in the world is David Mackie's over 100 yards from scrimmage in relief of Butler vs. the Argos early in the season "little option" ??? What - because he's listed as a fullback?; cause he's Canadian? You should apply as assistant OC. Too be in denial or make excuses for not noticing a player's outstanding play for the team is mind-boggling to me. Be like a rookie DE going into a game and making 4 sacks and 8 tackles, and then he sits on the bench the rest of the season while the rest of the D-Line does little or struggles.

The game on June 25 was an interesting outlier in Mackie's career. In that game, he had 16 carries for 90 yards. In the remaining 4 years of his career, he has had 3 carries for 4 yards (all this year).

I think it would be accurate to say that he has not had the confidence of multiple coaching staffs to be a regular part of the offence.

I doubt that being Canadian has anything to do with it, especially for a team that gave the starting QB job to an unproven Canadian player. There have been lots of other Canadian backs who have made an impact around the league.

Perhaps the coaches have insight into his limitations that are not apparent to us on the outside. It is surprising, though, that after a career game like that, he wasn't given more opportunity to show his ability.

It's totally on the coaches as to who makes the roster and who plays, and with offence - who touches the ball. Mackie was not even a prominent ball carrier when he played college ball at Western; how his performance (250+ pounder with quick feet who can truck smaller defenders) this year in that Argo game was not noticed or did not do some serious eye-brow raising is beyond me; maybe the coaches thought it was a fluke; and of course he is labelled a fullback (more like H-back) and in today's CFL same thinking offences, that means little used / almost never touch the ball.

Not sure why they would not have a back-up and change of pace tailback (Import or Canadian) behind Butler - IMO shows they don't have a lot of use for an applied ground game; and with Rourke on fire early in the year throwing strikes to a deep & talented receiving corps - why not emphasize the pass game. Campbell had a back-up Canadian RB in K. LaFrance take over from some mediocre American RBs they had preferred in that Ottawa 2016 GC win season; LaFrance's big game in t he the play-offs propelled them to the GC and he started again in that GC win. Not sure Campbell learned a lot to change his standard roster thinking from that GC winning team.