B.C. Lions’ defensive coordinator Ryan Phillips accuses Surrey RCMP of racial profiling

[Toppy Vann]

This is seriously troubling that a black man gets pulled over at night and gets handcuffed. While a late night stop might warrant back up with the number of guns out there, this seems over the top based on the one side of the story from Ryan Phillips.

Most, if there was something more against us, wouldn't start tweeting about like Ryan has unless they're in the mold of Donald Trump or his son Eric who told the news that his dad would never put classified docs on the floor of Mar a Lago! He's organized.


"In a series of tweets starting at 5:23 a.m. local time, Phillips alleged that he was pulled over without explanation and had backup called on him, before being handcuffed by officers. He was not arrested and it does not appear that any charges were filed."

A senior RCMP officer responds with a comment that anyone can say to justify the stop yet none of what Phillips says jibes with this statement.

"I will clarify that a traffic stop was initiated due to one of our officer’s observing erratic driving behaviour over several blocks."



https://3downnation.com/2022/09/11/b-c- ... profiling/

[MacNews]

They suspended his driver's licence and towed his car, but no explanation to the media why.

If I was Phillips I'd be hiring a lawyer.

[B.C.FAN]

Phillips gave more details to Steve Ewen of The Province. He refused a breathalyzer test. Police say he was stopped for erratic driving at 4:13 a.m. on Sunday. He definitely needs a lawyer.

https://theprovince.com/sports/football ... affic-stop

[ziggy]

Refusing to give a breath sample? Not a good idea at the best of times let alone 4:13 in the morning. With the countries DUI laws it’s pretty hard to win in court.

[DanoT]

Refusing to give a breath sample? Not a good idea at the best of times let alone 4:13 in the morning. With the countries DUI laws it’s pretty hard to win in court.

Yeah, getting stopped at 4:13am is not a good look. Neither is playing the race card.

When I worked for a logging contractor we were often on early shift (out of the woods by 1pm) when the weather got hot so we would be driving to a crummy pick up point at 4am so we would get to the logging site to start work at first light. At that time of the morning motorists are either shift workers like us or drunks. We would wear our safety vests while driving so the cops would know we were workers, not drunks. Chances are Phillips was in the drunk category and refusing a breathalyzer means the Crown doesn't have to prove Phillips was drunk, so the penalty for refusing a breathalyzer will apply. Case closed.

[ziggy]

Refusing to give a breath sample? Not a good idea at the best of times let alone 4:13 in the morning. With the countries DUI laws it’s pretty hard to win in court.

Yeah, getting stopped at 4:13am is not a good look. Neither is playing the race card.

When I worked for a logging contractor we were often on early shift (out of the woods by 1pm) when the weather got hot so we would be driving to a crummy pick up point at 4am so we would get to the logging site to start work at first light. At that time of the morning motorists are either shift workers like us or drunks. We would wear our safety vests while driving so the cops would know we were workers, not drunks. Chances are Phillips was in the drunk category and refusing a breathalyzer means the Crown doesn't have to prove Phillips was drunk, so the penalty for refusing a breathalyzer will apply. Case closed.

Yeah went through a similar situation. The only profiling was why I was out at that time in the morning and to honest at times it was scary when I saw some of the other drivers out there. Hope that’s all it is in this case as well.

[Toppy Vann]

I see that he had his vehicle impounded but he's strongly alleging and maintaining that he was not given a reason for being pulled over.

It's not clear as he said nothing of this if he's been charged with refusing to take a BTA. However, impoundment is what is done with refusal to take a BTA.

I sure hope he's not let his anger lead to that charge as that's serious and has long term consequences for driving and a criminal record.

Erratic driving is what they'll have to say to justify stopping someone and moreso if it's a person of colour and late at night.

As someone notes, the failure to blow charge doesn't mean they have to prove impaired. It's just like driving after you've been given a road side suspension. It's a slam dunk guilty finding.

While we may question what he's doing at 4:13 am that's immaterial and we have a right in this country to drive down the road or highway and not be stopped. I'm sure these coaches (assistants) often work late nights.

Ryan Phillips mentions how players get stopped and now him - and I'd assume they're not stopping white guys so that is a huge frustration.

[DanoT]

I see that he had his vehicle impounded but he's strongly alleging and maintaining that he was not given a reason for being pulled over.

It's not clear as he said nothing of this if he's been charged with refusing to take a BTA. However, impoundment is what is done with refusal to take a BTA.

I sure hope he's not let his anger lead to that charge as that's serious and has long term consequences for driving and a criminal record.

Erratic driving is what they'll have to say to justify stopping someone and moreso if it's a person of colour and late at night.

As someone notes, the failure to blow charge doesn't mean they have to prove impaired. It's just like driving after you've been given a road side suspension. It's a slam dunk guilty finding.

While we may question what he's doing at 4:13 am that's immaterial and we have a right in this country to drive down the road or highway and not be stopped. I'm sure these coaches (assistants) often work late nights.

Ryan Phillips mentions how players get stopped and now him - and I'd assume they're not stopping white guys so that is a huge frustration.

I disagree with the underlined part. While we have the right to drive at 4am, the police have the obligation to get drunks off the road and thus they have the right to stop anyone who they think may be drunk. And as I stated earlier there are only two types of drivers at 4am, shift workers and drunks, so cops tend to get vehicles to pull over more frequently at 4am vs 4pm, for good reason. If Phillips were working late and sober, then all he had to do was take the breathalyzer and then he would be on his way.

One time after a lions game, back when the upper deck was in use so a very big crowd, the cops were stopping every single vehicle leaving the stadium area. I was headed up to Kamloops with a long late night drive ahead of me. I complained to the cops that they were unnecessarily creating a huge traffic jam.

The cops reaction was to make me take a breathalyzer, which I passed since I had not been drinking. So instead, they gave me a ticket for having my dog unrestrained in the passenger seat. I was so pissed off that I had to pull over a block away and get out and walk around just to calm down, only then I proceeded with my drive to Kamloops.

[ziggy]

Police don’t need to justify a stop with a claim of erratic driving etc. that’s a wives tale. They can stop to check licenses, registration and that the vehicle is safe whenever they want no need for a blatant infraction. Anyway I think we should leave this alone and let the legal system work it out.

[Blue In BC]

Playing the race card at times is like crying wolf. If in fact he was driving erratically and refused a breath test that is an expected police action. It doesn't mean profiling wasn't a factor. We're getting a bit of he said and they said in this event. If the police ask you to provide a breath sample, doesn't that suggest WHY they pulled you over?

Why would you allow yourself too have your license to be revoked and your car towed if you have nothing to hide?

[Toppy Vann]

I don't disagree with the sentiments being expressed here OR the questions as to why he was out late

However, in law the premise that it all changes at 4 am in the morning is not quite what is in play in Canadian and BC policing standards - re-published in 2020.

I'm hoping for his sake that he hasn't made a big error here and refused a demand for a breath sample. He certainly comes across as a mature, reasonable and good person.

If he has gone off and ignored a lawful demand this surprises me given the person. Some people, it'd be a slam dunk to surmise they've done the bad thing.

Assistant coaches often do work late and drive home late or like the old OL coach Dan Dorazio sleep at the office.

I've been in policing in Vancouver and at 4 am under our laws and the Charter you cannot stop every vehicle and in most cities there are not enough police to do so but I fully support roadblocks all year round as that is done unfiltered as well stopping weaving vehicles.

A few years ago I was driving east on Hastings near the PNE and this car was weaving badly so I called police and even waited while the guy got a coffee at a gas station before Boundary. I actually contemplated speaking to him and offering him a ride home but now the police had the call.

It was transferred to Burnaby and they told me a ways before Kensington plaza that I'd see two RCMP cars pulling onto Hastings and to stop to speak to the Corporal when they pulled him over. The driver then drove purrfect with two cars behind him. They stopped him before the Barnett and he was barely able to stand properly . The Corporal said they couldn't stop him until he gave them a reason and from just west of Kensington on Hastings they only saw him weave as he turned northwards towards the Barnett then he gave the order to pull him over. I replied that I was shocked at how well he drove as he saw the RCMP cars about to turn onto Hastings.

There is bias in policing, employment, etc and today algorithms are making it worse.

Any time police can say they stopped you for a minor driving issue and if Ryan is to be believed he says there might have been bias in his stop and that would definitely give rise to anger for some.

There is the chance that the person was drinking and didn't want to do the BTA but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here solely because I know how some police "colour" their descriptions of events nicely. If he's wrong here which on the surface of refusing to blow is dead wrong, he's made a very, very bad decision.








chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-c ... -stops.pdf

[Sir Purrcival]

As a computer technician, I was often out at odd hours and in places (businesses) that would be normally be bereft of people in the wee small hours of the morning. I too got pulled over but it wasn't for erratic driving, it was simply as the officer put it, odd to see a person coming out of a closed business at 3:00 am. I was miffed that he chose to put his lights on when I was in the the least convenient place in my journey to safely pull over but otherwise I was okay with it. He had watched me leave the business so I guess he didn't even bother with the "have you been drinking". I too would agree that you have to be very cautious about pulling the race card. There are lots of times, folks of all shades get pulled over and though I am not a person of colour, it does seem to me that if someone is going to open that drawer, there had better be something a little more concrete than simply getting pulled over. We ask law enforcement to keep the peace, maintain public safety and what not and while they shouldn't be pulling over folks because they appear to be of a particular ethnic group, they shouldn't have to be afraid that every time they do pull someone over, that they are going to get hit with the "racist" label. Equal should mean equal, both ways. Nobody should get off because of they way they look, nor should they be unduly detained. It doesn't necessarily speak to the specifics of this situation but if it turns out that Phillips appears to be crying wolf, it isn't going to reflect well on him so I hope for his sake that he has something more to base it on than he got pulled over in the early a.m.

[ziggy]

I suspect this is what the police will say

Police don’t need a reason

“The Canadian Supreme Court has repeatedly held that it is entirely lawful for police officers to stop anyone driving a motor vehicle on the roadway, at any time, to check for a valid license, insurance, sobriety and the fitness of the vehicle to be driven on the road”.

Like many I also used to believe they needed just cause but clearly they don’t. Perhaps the coach also believed this which is why he demanded to know why he was being stopped. Maybe different in the US?

[KnowItAll]

Just cooperate with the police, specially in Canada. It is a no brainer

[Toppy Vann]

The tragedy of the justice system these days is the prohibitive costs of going to trial and mounting a strong defence IF there is one which as others note, is not easy if you refuse to blow. You're better off to blow and if over .08 fight for a technicality which does happen at times IF you have the money to fight.

There are not many cases that result in NOT guilty with this offence and the results aren't pretty. Charter rights are always protected but this is pretty tough wording:

"Mandatory roadside breath test:
Under recent changes to the Criminal Code, police officers no longer need to suspect a person of impaired driving in order to demand a breath test. They can now conduct random mandatory roadside breath tests to screen for alcohol impairment. This means that drivers who are stopped for any other reason, such as a traffic violation, or a check stop, may be required to provide a breath test."

"What happens if you refuse to blow in BC?
For a first offence of refusing to blow, the mandatory minimum sentence is a $2,000 fine and a driving prohibition of at least one year and up to three years. Any conviction under these sections of the Criminal Code means you get a criminal record."