Elks vs. Lions Aug. 6, 2022

[KnightofCydonia]

I'm loving our success in the air, but against a better team we really need a running game. Its concerning that we still didn't have much of one and it doesn't seem to be getting better. Why don't they give David Mackie more touches? Butler alone isn't enough

[cromartie]

This offense actually has three things most other offenses do not:

1) Whitehead. He has the speed and ability to take the top off the defense, and effectively prevents defenses from overcommitting to stop the run and intermediate pass game. The Riders, Edmonton and Toronto, to name three do not have this.

2) Jevon Cottoy. Regardless of what the stat sheet might tell you from week to week, he is extremely important to this offense. He can line up in the slot and has the toughness to win contested catches between the hashes. He can line up as a de facto Tight End because of his size and run block or, even more importantly pretend to run block and get open in the intermediate game.

In fact, I'd submit that if you key on one player to tell you what's going on in the pass game, it's actually Cottoy. How he's used and where he lines up will tell you a lot about what the play and the game plan are.

One of Rourke's many strengths, and what differentiates him from a lot of other guys, is that he does not try and make too many plays out of structure. He's better, and more calm, than Riley was in this regard. He's light years ahead of, say, Dane Evans in Hamilton who is strictly at this point a one read and go guy. His calmness in the pocket, which I would assert comes from a lifetime of playing the Canadian game specifically along with a really, really good and extremely well coached offensive line, is one of his biggest differentiators.

I wouldn't sweat the run game this week. The Elk rather foolishly decided they were going to come out and stop the run, forcing Rourke to beat them. It was a pressure game plan which, in light of their weaknesses in the secondary was probably their best option. Or, as the game wore on at least attempt to create the appearance they were trying to do so.

Other teams are likely to play more zone and rely on their front four to generate a pass rush; it's against those opponents you're likely to see more of a run game (and more from Cottoy). You have to let those teams suffer a death by 1000 cuts and use your run game to do it. Hamilton was a very good example of that.

Don't sweat the downsides. Here's what Makysmic has proven really really good at, and that's adaptability. He had plans for what Edmonton brought to the table and he and Rourke countered and adjusted brilliantly. If some previous OCs were have as adaptable we'd have had more than two Grey Cups between 2004 and 2011.

This is a fun team to watch. Enjoy it while we have it.

[B.C.FAN]

This offense actually has three things most other offenses do not:

1) Whitehead. He has the speed and ability to take the top off the defense, and effectively prevents defenses from overcommitting to stop the run and intermediate pass game. The Riders, Edmonton and Toronto, to name three do not have this.

2) Jevon Cottoy. Regardless of what the stat sheet might tell you from week to week, he is extremely important to this offense. He can line up in the slot and has the toughness to win contested catches between the hashes. He can line up as a de facto Tight End because of his size and run block or, even more importantly pretend to run block and get open in the intermediate game.

In fact, I'd submit that if you key on one player to tell you what's going on in the pass game, it's actually Cottoy. How he's used and where he lines up will tell you a lot about what the play and the game plan are.

One of Rourke's many strengths, and what differentiates him from a lot of other guys, is that he does not try and make too many plays out of structure. He's better, and more calm, than Riley was in this regard. He's light years ahead of, say, Dane Evans in Hamilton who is strictly at this point a one read and go guy. His calmness in the pocket, which I would assert comes from a lifetime of playing the Canadian game specifically along with a really, really good and extremely well coached offensive line, is one of his biggest differentiators.

I wouldn't sweat the run game this week. The Elk rather foolishly decided they were going to come out and stop the run, forcing Rourke to beat them. It was a pressure game plan which, in light of their weaknesses in the secondary was probably their best option. Or, as the game wore on at least attempt to create the appearance they were trying to do so.

Other teams are likely to play more zone and rely on their front four to generate a pass rush; it's against those opponents you're likely to see more of a run game (and more from Cottoy). You have to let those teams suffer a death by 1000 cuts and use your run game to do it. Hamilton was a very good example of that.

Don't sweat the downsides. Here's what Makysmic has proven really really good at, and that's adaptability. He had plans for what Edmonton brought to the table and he and Rourke countered and adjusted brilliantly. If some previous OCs were have as adaptable we'd have had more than two Grey Cups between 2004 and 2011.

This is a fun team to watch. Enjoy it while we have it.

Good points. Regarding Cottoy, I often find myself watching his alignment and first steps to read the play call. It's the same when Mackie is in the game as a tight end. The Lions need to run more play action from running formations to disguise their tendencies. Some of Cottoy's biggest receptions have come when he lines up to block and slips out behind coverage. Mackie can be effective as a runner or receiver on screen passes. The only time he's been targeted as a receiver this year is when he replaced Butler at RB in the Toronto game.

I agree that the Elks focused on stopping the run, and largely succeeded. Look where it got them. The Lions will take what the defence gives them. That's why it was frustrating to watch the Lions struggle to establish a run game in the second half. Just continue to let Rourke do what he does best, or give O'Connor and Pipkin a chance to see some real action.

[DanoT]

Early in the game when Elks were rushing 6 or 7, I noticed Mackie in the game and Cottoy being kept in the backfield for blocking. Later with Elks not blitzing as much but still loading up the tackle box to effectively stop the run, on 1st down Lions seemed to have Rourke look for his first read and if not there dump the ball off to Butler for a 4-6 yard gain=good as a run.

[South Pender]

i have to agree with earlier posters who are concerned about the Lions' run game. Butler is a decent back, although not, I'd argue, a really exceptional one. I hope he'll prove me wrong in future games. He has a 4.5 yds./carry average so far this year, which is quite decent, and even a little ahead of Andrew Harris (at 4.2).

I'd like to see whether one of the practice-squad RBs might be capable of providing more punch in the run game. There's Bruce Anderson and Brian Hill there, and of the two, Hill interests me more. He's a solid 6-1, 219 lb. back with pretty good speed (4.54) who was drafted in the 5th round by the Atlanta Falcons. According to the 2017 draft notes, he runs with authority and power, functioning well in both power and zone blocking schemes. For those of you who attended training camp, did Hill show anything there? I realize that Campbell doesn't want to upset the current winning formula and culture, and that he has the numbers game to play, but could Hill get a few touches (unless he looked bad in training camp)?

And, of course, there will be lots of NFL RBs cut in the next several weeks as the NFL training camps are now in full swing. I wonder whether one or two might be brought in for a look-see.

It's great to have a successful passing attack with Rourke and a stable of really good receivers, but I'd like to see a more dependable running game established. I think that would really put the Lions over the top offensively. As noted above, there will be those cold games late in the season in hostile environments when a solid, productive running attack may be the difference.

[Gridiron Ernie]

South Pender. Of course your comments regards a solid ground game for late-season colder weather games make good sense. And there's always room for improvement, for sure. However looking at James Butler's 2022 stats, I come away reasonably impressed so far. He's in the league top 5 among rushing yardage leaders and two of those above him have played a game or two extra. And among running backs, only Jamal Morrow (Sask) has more pass-receiving yardage than does Butler. So there's that to factor in as well. Regards Brian Hill; while I was not a training camp attendee, I'm almost certain the Lions signed Hill after they'd played both pre-season games, in later June. But what you say of him sounds real interesting. Needless to say, this edition of the Leos is mighty entertaining. Even our amazingly talented both-feet-on-the-ground young QB (with the recent over 80% pass-completion game rating) would agree--there's always room for improvement! LOL.

[DanoT]

One of the things that I like about Butler is that while he is only 5'9", he is 210 lbs. A short stocky build and the quick feet means he is the right size to get lower than a DE or blitzing LB and then block with leverage.

[B.C.FAN]

Hill was signed after training camp. In camp Anderson showed good hands as a receiver out of the backfield, and was used as a returner.
I don’t think he offers more than Butler as a runner.

[Figaro]

Something Butler gives this offence that has not been mentioned is his blocking ability. He is short yet heavy and strong and has taken on most of the blitzes the CFL has thrown at Rourke. His strong stocky build gets him under a defender and lifts him thus slowing the defender down. He contributes more than just run yards - he keeps Rourke on his feet. Regarding the run game, I agree that they should use Mackie more often.

[Hambone]

What I would like to see out of BC's run game is more productivity on 1st down. Too many 1st down runs leave them in 2nd and anywhere from 7 to 14 yards to go. It doesn't have to be big yards. I'd just like to see them coming out picking up 4, 5 or 6 yards on 1st down with a lot more consistency.

First down rushes on Saturday went for 0, -4, 4, 2, 6, 3, 4, 0, 2, 3, 3, 7 and 3. His longest run of the night came with 1:45 to go when clearly Edmonton was gassed and just wanting to get the heck out of the building and onto the plane home. Up to that point 8 of the 11 runs on 1st down were for 3 yards or less.

[South Pender]

One of the things that I like about Butler is that while he is only 5'9", he is 210 lbs. A short stocky build and the quick feet means he is the right size to get lower than a DE or blitzing LB and then block with leverage.

Yes, good point, Dano. In fact, Butler's size is very common (almost prototypical) with NFL RBs. Three of the four starting backs with the Seahawks are out of that mold: D.J. Dallas (5-10, 214), Travis Homer (5-10, 202), and the outstanding rookie 2nd-round draft pick (who may become the team's feature back) Kenneth Walker at 5-9, 211. Packers feature RB, Aaron Jones is 5-9, 208. So size is not the problem with Butler; nor is speed at 4.59, which is reasonably decent, if not outstanding. It may be more an issue with the blocking schemes Kelly Bates is employing, or, perhaps, a lack of practice time devoted to the run game. Whatever the cause, I just don't get the sense that when Butler gets the ball on a run play, a lot is going to happen. I think Hambone's just-preceding post illustrates this. I think I was impressed with Brian Hill's size, college stats, and draft status--going to the Atlanta Falcons in the 5th round, whereas Butler went undrafted. In any case, I'd like to see the Lions develop a more dependable run game with the kind of first-down production that Hambone has noted.

[David]

For the second straight week, a game involving Rourke and the Lions was the highest rated in the CFL with 499,000 viewers tuning in. This despite being the late game Saturday night (the next highest was Winnipeg and Montreal with 475,600 viewers on Thursday). With Saskatchewan in a bye week, this week's CFL games had the lowest number of average viewers this season (422,675)

I don't know what the local numbers were, but you have to think it's decent if this game aired at 10:30pm Eastern with a last-place team from the West, and it still drew in 500K viewers.



DH

[Sir Purrcival]

This is a real feel good story for the Lions and the league. To have a fresh face and Canadian tearing up the league is exciting. I mean look at the TSN panel. They seem excited to watch the story unfold and collectively, these guys have seen just about everything football you could possibly see. I bet the head brass at the CFL are hugging themselves over their good fortune.

[PGSSS74]

High TV ratings, TSN crushing, CFL big brass hugging: all very good reasons to NOT keep the fresh face QB in play when he is not needed (they were NOT trying for an impossible passing record).

All it takes is one bad tackle or awkward fall, and the ratings will drop, the panel will moan, and the big brass will be thinking of new rules to punish people who hurt a quarterback. And the season will be in peril.

Just my thoughts.

[Hambone]

I don't get hung up on Rourke staying in as long as he did. He only played 2 series after the 12 minute mark of the 3rd and the first was a 2 or 3 and out. Fans get their shorts in a knot over that but I think there isn't a coach in the CFL or NFL who doesn't do the same regardless of their QB. They all want to keep their foot on the throat of their opponent until the waning minutes. Campbell could easily have yanked Rourke after his last series in the 3rd but to do so is to tell the entire team "we have this one in the bag". IMO that Is not the message one wants to send so early. Guys are far more likely to get hurt when they ease off and start counting the W.