Lions 18 - Argos 17 -- Post-Game Comments

[Luck1sOnOurSid3]

At the end of the day, a win is a win. It wasn't pretty, but we got one in the good column this season. Whatever our offensive line makeup was against Stamps... we need to get back to it in a hurry. This offense (like most) will feast or famine based on their offensive line. If Reilly is given time, he will be the league leader in passing again and we might host a home playoff game. If he isn't, we are going to be in for a long season.

Positives from today:
1) John White is looking like vintage John White. If the run game is going, we will be ok.

2) Lemar Durant came up big for us with Burnham out. He is turning in to a primary receiver right before our eyes.

3) Our run defense was solid most of the game.

Negatives:
1) Gave up more pressure than I would have liked. Not sure if Boyko is the answer at right tackle, seems to leak a lot.

2) We HAVE to get Duron Carter more involved in this offense. I am not sure how we do it, but we won't have success this season with only Burnham and Durant being productive.

3) Defense needs to close out a game for us. This is two weeks in a row they played well, for the most part, and then let up in the final 4 minutes. I am not sure if it is conditioning or lack of concentration, but we need to fix it.

Overall:
We won. It was ugly. But ugly wins count for the same amount of points as big wins. Hopefully we finally got the monkey off our backs and we can string a few wins together. The name of the game is making the playoffs with momentum. It is a long season and hopefully we just put one of many in the W column. Whiskey tastes much better after a win, boys! Celebrate this one!

[David]

Funny, but I didn't see a ton of RPO today, Blitz. I saw a healthy mix of pass and run, with White gashing the Argos for 138 yards along the ground with our two running backs adding another 42 yards through the air on swing passes.

To me, the problem is our receivers just not able to get separation. We can see when our primary target (Burnham) goes out of the line-up, just how weak we are. With Reilly mic'd up, I could really sense his frustration with guys not being where they're supposed to be. He was leaning heavily on Durant to move around because I could see as plain as day that's the only guy he trusts.

The $64,000 question is whether Jarious should be implementing plays to help get them separation (flooding a zone, pump fakes, play-action etc) but I really question our talent at receiver right now, other than Durant (whom I said before training camp would be a huge signing for us) and the always reliable Bryan Burnham.


DH

[Toppy Vann]

BC didn't won. Toronto lost the game.

Tor not kicking the 3rd down FG with 10:34 or so on the clock in the 4th then the decision to pooch the kickoff were bonehead coaching decisions.

Those wanting Carter gone would have to say that for Derel Walker and SJ Green. It's the entire team to blame, not just individuals.

Yes, BC receivers don't get separation but its the structure of the BC offence that sucks and Jarius learned well under Wally when they rejected the running game of Kruk-Dorazio. I guess I'm now ready to say Jarius should be outta here.

But the GM decisions to go with so many new DEF players and put all the cash to the QB is showing up.

It will take time for the Lions coaching staff to gel and get their entire OFF staff into the decisions and again, I think Jarius in his first gig as OC should move on as its clear now that calling the plays is not working. Little variation and passing routes too tough to get separation as it's always the same old stuff.

There is no variation on the themes and at times not do what other winning teams do - use more than one RB.

[South Pender]

Anyone get the attendance for the game? The stands looked pretty empty. The CFL summary usually gives this information, but, for some reason, it doesn't appear in this game's summary (although it does appear in the summaries of the other three games this weekend).

[Luck1sOnOurSid3]

Funny, but I didn't see a ton of RPO today, Blitz. I saw a healthy mix of pass and run, with White gashing the Argos for 138 yards along the ground with our two running backs adding another 42 yards through the air on swing passes.

To me, the problem is our receivers just not able to get separation. We can see when our primary target (Burnham) goes out of the line-up, just how weak we are. With Reilly mic'd up, I could really sense his frustration with guys not being where they're supposed to be. He was leaning heavily on Durant to move around because I could see as plain as day that's the only guy he trusts.

The $64,000 question is whether Jarious should be implementing plays to help get them separation (flooding a zone, pump fakes, play-action etc) but I really question our talent at receiver right now, other than Durant (whom I said before training camp would be a huge signing for us) and the always reliable Bryan Burnham.


DH

Durant really is making his presence known this season. I am really happy to see him making that leap to a premiere first option receiver. We really do need to fix our depth at receiver. Teams are going to start bracketing Durant soon.

[TheLionKing]

Anyone get the attendance for the game? The stands looked pretty empty. The CFL summary usually gives this information, but, for some reason, it doesn't appear in this game's summary (although it does appear in the summaries of the other three games this weekend).

Probably for the same reason they no longer announce the attendance at BC home games/

[Blitz]

Funny, but I didn't see a ton of RPO today, Blitz. I saw a healthy mix of pass and run, with White gashing the Argos for 138 yards along the ground with our two running backs adding another 42 yards through the air on swing passes.

To me, the problem is our receivers just not able to get separation. We can see when our primary target (Burnham) goes out of the line-up, just how weak we are. With Reilly mic'd up, I could really sense his frustration with guys not being where they're supposed to be. He was leaning heavily on Durant to move around because I could see as plain as day that's the only guy he trusts.

The $64,000 question is whether Jarious should be implementing plays to help get them separation (flooding a zone, pump fakes, play-action etc) but I really question our talent at receiver right now, other than Durant (whom I said before training camp would be a huge signing for us) and the always reliable Bryan Burnham.


DH

When I refer to Jackson's RPO Offence, I am referring to an offence which is a combination of RPO plays, West Coast plays, and Spread plays with RPO as the dominant aspect of the offence. Mike Reilly has also added some input into the offence but that comprises 20% or less of the offensive scheme.

As was the case last season, Jarious Jackson will dial up a high number of RPO plays in a specific game or tend to run more Spread plays than usual. However, our offence usually is more RPO than West Coast or Spread.

Its not always easy to determine whether a play is an RPO play or is a pre-designed play. If there is no fake to the tailback on a pass play, then its usually a West Coast or Spread play. If the offensive line fires out, rather than pass block then its usually an RPO play. Of course, its more complicated than this but it suffices, in terms of concept.

However, its more difficult to ascertain an RPO run play and a pre-snap programmed run play. The best way to determine whether its RPO or pre-snap is to look at the receivers. If they run pass patterns on a run play, then its usually an RPO play call. If the offensive line executes specific blocking assignments such as pulling or trapping then its usually a pre-designed play call.

In terms of personnel, last season, our receiving corps was comprised of Bryan Burnham, Ricky Collins , DeVier Posey, Anthony Parker, Corey Watson and Shaq Johnson. We also had Manny until he got hurt.

This season our receiving corps is comprised of Bryan Burnham, Duron Carter, Lemar Durant, Shaq Johnson, and Jevon Cottoy.

Last season, throughout the season, it was noted that our receivers were having difficulty getting separation. With mostly a different receiving corps the same complaint is being leveled. In fact, most of the offensive issues of last season are the same issues this season - lack of receiver separation, pass protection issues, inconsistenty in terms of run game utilization from one game to the next game.

The only major difference I read is that Mike Reilly, this season does not have the same target on his back as did Travis Lulay or Jonathan Jennings, in terms of accountability, if our offence struggles. If Lulay or Jennings had been at the controls and we had only put up 18 points against Toronto, then it would have been considered mostly a quarterback issue by most fans.

Our offence has not played well in three of our four games so far this season. Yesterday our offence scored 10 points off defensive turnovers but overall, it struggled, scoring 18 points. Basically our offence against Toronto was running the football with White and passing the football to Lemar Durant.

Our passing numbers were vey good last game but its always interesting to note that both Jennings and Lulay had some lights out games last season. The problem with Jackson's offence is that it takes exceptional quarterback play to overcome a deficient scheme and the quarterback can't play lights out every game.

Chamblin did not play our offence as most CFL teams seem to want to do. Basically the defensive game plan against Jarious Jackson's offence is to stack the box to take away the run, blitz an extra defender to ensure a quick pass (which Jackson favors anyway), and play our receivers tight, anticipating a quickly thrown route.

When our offence has been successful, last season and this season is when 1) we've run the football successfully and 2) when we've burned defenses deep off spread plays, with the defense covering our receivers tight and our receivers have gotten deep behind. But this requires an extra second of pass protection - not something that happens very often.

On defense, this is mostly a lunch bucket defense that is short on talent and playing hard. They haven't made too many mental mistakes but without a consistent pass rush (Odell played hard agaisnt Toronto) it makes playing defense tough.

[lion24]

Let's all just be honest, this was all specifically designed for payback of the 1983 Grey Cup.......

[DanoT]

With a rookie HC and mostly young staff and a dozen new starters and JJ's RPO offense, I have low expectations for the Lions.

Game 4 and scoring less than 20 points and needing Argo mistakes to get a win are strong indications that the Lions will be the basement dwellers in the west.

[Reggiemac]

Re the last second single. I seem to recall Lui facing the exact situation and intentionally kicking the Fg attempt through the end zone and no where near the goal posts so the opposition didn't get near the ball. Last nightthe FG attempt was just slightly wide and almost hit the upright which woukd havebeen blown dead and we wouldhavehad to play ot with amotivated argo team. We seem to lack situational awareness. Andits timeto get rid of Carter. And I still didnt see what Boesen did on the first FG attempt. An argbplayer started flopping aroud ontheturf lie a fish in te bottom of the boat i reran te tapebut I still didntsee Boesen go offside.

[Luck1sOnOurSid3]

With a rookie HC and mostly young staff and a dozen new starters and JJ's RPO offense, I have low expectations for the Lions.

Game 4 and scoring less than 20 points and needing Argo mistakes to get a win are strong indications that the Lions will be the basement dwellers in the west.

Yes, but last week we were up 11 on the Stamps with less than 4 minutes to go and they just blew the doors off Sask. Ti-Cats just lost to Montreal.

It’s a game of momentum and a win may have just got us some. Practices will be a little more positive, players might start playing more loose. We also did not have our primary receiver and the weather wasn’t that great.

I will take the win and hope we really open it up against Sask next week and go into the Edmonton game looking to get back to .500.

[Blitz]

To add to my post, in referring to the discussion regarding our receiving corps, Lemar Durant is now 3rd in the CFL in receiving yards. Reilly has completed 23 passes, on 30 targets (77%)to Durant.

Bryan Burnham is 6th in CFL receiving. However, Reilly has only completed 16 passes to 30 targets (53%) to Burnham. (Its interesting that Ricky Collins, who ranks 5th in CFL receiving so far this season was a Leo receiver who 'couldn't get open' last season).

Duron Carter presently is ranked 18th in CFL receiving. Carter has caught 21 of 33 passes (64%) thrown his way but Carter has mostly been utilized as a possession style of receiver in Jarious Jackson's plug and play offence. Carter is only averaging 8.5 yds. per reception.

Shaq Johnson has caught 7 of 11 passes (64%) thrown his way. Want an almost guaranteed pass completion. Throw the football to Cottoy - he has caught 7 of 8 passes (88%) thrown his way for a 9.7 yd. average.

[WestCoastJoe]

Running Game

Running game can be good, as we have seen. Dedicated calls, so the OL is dialed in. Nothing wrong with our run blocking. That is what OL hogs live for. Nothing wrong with White's running or catching. It is a concern for this fan that our staff ''forgot'' about the run game in our early games this year. It seems the staff does not see the big picture. Ya gotta run the dayum ball.

Passing Game

Passing game issues are serious. Talented receivers get separation. We are not getting it. Carter has shown little ability to do anything. His head does not seem to be in the game. Plus, as a receiver, he has issues at the best of times. I think he does best freelancing, running around, going for spectacular catches, using his size and general athleticism to plck the ball out of the air. IMO he is not a burner. He does not use deception, nor precise route running to get open. IMO he just runs. He might be able to run after catch, if he gets the ball in space. This fan is not against Carter. He is our guy, for the time being. I expect Reilly lacks confidence in him. That long pass at game end vs the Stampeders was his chance to show ability to steal the ball from the defender. Did not happen. We need at least one other very talented INT receiver, imo. There are loads out there. Some teams bring stars in every year. Nothing wrong with our NATs. Durant has been terrific. But our INTs need to be game breakers. We do not have that.

Separation

Not getting separation? Easily defended routes and play calls. Lack of receiver ability to shed defenders. Even some slower receivers, with deception and timing, can get good separation.

Pass Protection

Pass protection has been better. Much better when we have a dedicated run game. D'oh. We did not seem to realize it earlier this year. Very concerning.

Defence

Defence. Serious issues. No pass rush. Vulnerable to the run game. Willis is aging, and can go off his game, seemingly in a sulk. Boesen has shown almost nothing, imo. Vulnerable to the pass game.

Special Teams

STs. Abysmal. TD given up to Rainey. Missed FG. Penalties. Poorly prepared STs, it seems to me. STs provide the widest scope for coaching creativity. Witness O'Shea's Bombers. There is that high school coach in the US that uses about 20 different onside kicks, very successfully. I think I posted the article on here years ago.

Issues with personnel at receiver, with the DL, possibly LBs and DBs.

There are issues with each unit. More of a concern is that, to this fan, Claybrooks has not put his impression on the team. What is the personality of the team? Mistake prone. Collapse prone. Confusion prone. Soft defence prone.

Other than that, everything is fine. Ha ha

At some point, fans do not want to hear about learning curve. They want a team that plays with spirit and conviction. Getting the right balance between sophisticated systems and execution is no easy matter. But the best teams get it, even with changing personnel.

It is not looking good so far. When will it change for the better? Will it change for the better? Or will we be a doormat this year? One still has some hopes. But time moves on quickly.

Just imo, as a very long time CFL fan.

[Luck1sOnOurSid3]

Running Game

Running game can be good, as we have seen. Dedicated calls, so the OL is dialed in. Nothing wrong with our run blocking. That is what OL hogs live for. Nothing wrong with White's running or catching. It is a concern for this fan that our staff ''forgot'' about the run game in our early games this year. It seems the staff does not see the big picture. Ya gotta run the dayum ball.

Passing Game

Passing game issues are serious. Talented receivers get separation. We are not getting it. Carter has shown little ability to do anything. His head does not seem to be in the game. Plus, as a receiver, he has issues at the best of times. I think he does best freelancing, running around, going for spectacular catches, using his size and general athleticism to plck the ball out of the air. IMO he is not a burner. He does not use deception, nor precise route running to get open. IMO he just runs. He might be able to run after catch, if he gets the ball in space. This fan is not against Carter. He is our guy, for the time being. I expect Reilly lacks confidence in him. That long pass at game end vs the Stampeders was his chance to show ability to steal the ball from the defender. Did not happen. We need at least one other very talented INT receiver, imo. There are loads out there. Some teams bring stars in every year. Nothing wrong with our NATs. Durant has been terrific. But our INTs need to be game breakers. We do not have that.

Separation

Not getting separation? Easily defended routes and play calls. Lack of receiver ability to shed defenders. Even some slower receivers, with deception and timing, can get good separation.

Pass Protection

Pass protection has been better. Much better when we have a dedicated run game. D'oh. We did not seem to realize it earlier this year. Very concerning.

Defence

Defence. Serious issues. No pass rush. Vulnerable to the run game. Willis is aging, and can go off his game, seemingly in a sulk. Boesen has shown almost nothing, imo. Vulnerable to the pass game.

Special Teams

STs. Abysmal. TD given up to Rainey. Missed FG. Penalties.

There are issues with each unit. More of a concern is that, to this fan, Claybrooks has not put his impression on the team. What is the personality of the team? Mistake prone. Collapse prone. Confusion prone. Soft defence prone. Ill prepared STs, it seems to me. Issues with personnel at receiver, with the DL, possibly LBs and DBs.

Other than that, everything is fine. Ha ha

At some point, fans do not want to hear about learning curve. They want a team that plays with spirit and conviction. Getting the right balance between sophisticated systems and execution is no easy matter. But the best teams get it, even with changing personnel.

It is not looking good so far. When will it change for the better? Will it change for the better? Or will we be a doormat this year? One still has some hopes. But time moves on quickly.

Just imo, as a very long time CFL fan.

Eh. We should have beat the Stamps who just took the Riders to the woodshed. We play the bombers tight for our first game together and we just got a W. I’m not ready to jump on the sky is falling bandwagon yet. I think next week we will make a big push in development and play good football on all sides of the balls.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

[WestCoastJoe]

Running Game

Running game can be good, as we have seen. Dedicated calls, so the OL is dialed in. Nothing wrong with our run blocking. That is what OL hogs live for. Nothing wrong with White's running or catching. It is a concern for this fan that our staff ''forgot'' about the run game in our early games this year. It seems the staff does not see the big picture. Ya gotta run the dayum ball.

Passing Game

Passing game issues are serious. Talented receivers get separation. We are not getting it. Carter has shown little ability to do anything. His head does not seem to be in the game. Plus, as a receiver, he has issues at the best of times. I think he does best freelancing, running around, going for spectacular catches, using his size and general athleticism to plck the ball out of the air. IMO he is not a burner. He does not use deception, nor precise route running to get open. IMO he just runs. He might be able to run after catch, if he gets the ball in space. This fan is not against Carter. He is our guy, for the time being. I expect Reilly lacks confidence in him. That long pass at game end vs the Stampeders was his chance to show ability to steal the ball from the defender. Did not happen. We need at least one other very talented INT receiver, imo. There are loads out there. Some teams bring stars in every year. Nothing wrong with our NATs. Durant has been terrific. But our INTs need to be game breakers. We do not have that.

Separation

Not getting separation? Easily defended routes and play calls. Lack of receiver ability to shed defenders. Even some slower receivers, with deception and timing, can get good separation.

Pass Protection

Pass protection has been better. Much better when we have a dedicated run game. D'oh. We did not seem to realize it earlier this year. Very concerning.

Defence

Defence. Serious issues. No pass rush. Vulnerable to the run game. Willis is aging, and can go off his game, seemingly in a sulk. Boesen has shown almost nothing, imo. Vulnerable to the pass game.

Special Teams

STs. Abysmal. TD given up to Rainey. Missed FG. Penalties.

There are issues with each unit. More of a concern is that, to this fan, Claybrooks has not put his impression on the team. What is the personality of the team? Mistake prone. Collapse prone. Confusion prone. Soft defence prone. Ill prepared STs, it seems to me. Issues with personnel at receiver, with the DL, possibly LBs and DBs.

Other than that, everything is fine. Ha ha

At some point, fans do not want to hear about learning curve. They want a team that plays with spirit and conviction. Getting the right balance between sophisticated systems and execution is no easy matter. But the best teams get it, even with changing personnel.

It is not looking good so far. When will it change for the better? Will it change for the better? Or will we be a doormat this year? One still has some hopes. But time moves on quickly.

Just imo, as a very long time CFL fan.

Eh. We should have beat the Stamps who just took the Riders to the woodshed. We play the bombers tight for our first game together and we just got a W. I’m not ready to jump on the sky is falling bandwagon yet. I think next week we will make a big push in development and play good football on all sides of the balls.

It’s a marathon, not a sprint.

Eh.

I appreciated your insight on positives and negatives in earlier posts.

Everyone has their own opinion.

There are some positives, as noted, and there are concerns. We are 1 and 3. We just barely beat a not-so-good Argos team. Marathon? Sprint? It's both. We limped out of the gate, losing the first 3 games. Sky is falling? No. Bandwagon? There are posters on here seeing positives, and there are those seeing concerns. We are not without hope, as mentioned.

Just imo, as a long time fan.