JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm
From my memory, Obie convinced Pezim to
trade Flutie for he wanted too much money. Obie said it was his offence not Flutie that was the reason for its success. It was a huge mistake and Obie screwed up for he did not realize how good Flutie was.
As explained later, there was no actual
trade involving Doug Flutie but rather, a trade between the Lions and Stampeders
after Doug Flutie was signed as a free agent by Calgary.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm
Lions should have finished 1st that year, but lost final home game to Tiger Cats, for they took them too lightly and finished 3rd and lost in the semi finals.
Yes, a huge choke. What was very frustrating in that 1991 is that while the Lions had a decent road record at 7-2, they had a losing home record at 4-5, disappointing the home Lions fans.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm
Flutie was a star here and was the most exciting QB Lions had in a long time. He attracted fans to the games.
Well, I'd say that with his scrambling abilities, Matt Dunigan was fairly exciting as well when he joined the Lions in 1988 and he managed to get the team to a Grey Cup appearance. So it was a good QB upgrade replacing the aging Roy Dewalt with Matt Dunigan. For some reason, Lions fans didn't seem to be too upset when Dunigan was traded by Joe Kapp to the Argonauts.
What exactly are your thoughts on Matt Dunigan and would you agree that he was an exciting QB as well?
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm
That
trade was a mistake and even Pezim I recall admitted it and regretted trading him. Danny Barrett is what we got in return and he was no Flutie and was a bust here.
Okay, just for the record. In March 1992, Doug Flutie became a free agent and was signed by the Calgary Stampeders. That left incumbent Calgary Stampeders starting quarterback Danny Barrett who led the team to a Grey Cup appearance in 1991 as expendable. And the Lions were left without an experienced quarterback. So it was agreed between the two teams that there was going to be a trade - with Danny Barrett going to the Lions in exchange for linemen Rocco Romano and Jamie Crysdale. There's no doubt who won the trade as those two linemen served as long-term Stampeders while Barrett was no replacement for Flutie and only survived two seasons.
So while the Doug Flutie free agent signing by Calgary
triggered a subsequent trade between the two teams, that trade itself did not involve Doug Flutie.
As an aside, I stated this numerous times before. Instead of trading for Danny Barrett at that time, the Lions should have shopped around some more and possibly attempt to re-sign Matt Dunigan who became a free agent as well after leading the Argonauts to the 1991 GC. Instead, Dunigan was signed by the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and he led the team to two consecutive Grey Cup appearances. Maybe the Lions were not interested in signing Dunigan again because they felt that he was too injury prone in that he only played 8 games in each of his two seasons in Toronto.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm
I think the Lions did not even make the Playoffs, lost fans due to trading Flutie and it was the beginning of a real down period for the Lions. Obie got fired at the end of the season I think or one after. if they kept Flutie I think they would have won the Grey Cup.
The Lions had a terrible 3-15 year in 1992 with both a terrible offence and defence, and I highly doubt that with the terrible defence the Lions would have won a Grey Cup with Doug Flutie around. Things improved somewhat in 1993 with a 10-8 record but still a fourth place finish and a first round playoff loss. I stated numerous times that trading Danny Barrett away for Kent Austin was one of the best QB trades ever.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 pm
That means nothing for he was a backup? Jackson was an average QB and no way should he be rated ahead of Joe Paopao.
At least Jarious Jackson was managed to be in the roster and was indeed delegated as the starter a few times.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 pm
Joe PaoPao is more deserving. Are you old enough to remember him? I do. He led BC to the playoffs many times after a string of dreadful QBs Lions had in the 70's, except Jerry Tagge. Lions missed the playoffs for years before Joe & Tagge and Rapp came. Paopao was a very good QB and only reason he never made it to the Grey Cup with the Lions was because the Eskimos had Warren Moon and were a dynasty and were impossible to beat then.
When Casey Printers left the team after his first stint in 2005, most Lions fans still had mostly positive impressions of him despite his departure. But upon his return to the team in 2008 and his departure in late 2009 after his second stint, any positive impressions were immediately tainted by negative impressions and memories. I think of players in their entirety if he had two more or more engagements with the team. Despite being the starter in several games in the 1990 season when Joe Paopao decided to go out of retirement, he didn't do all that. And he didn't do all that well either as a head coach in 1996 with a 5-13 record.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:13 pm
I forgot about Danny McManus (1993 - 1995).
To me even if a Lion only played a few years here, they can still be rated among the best. Dunnigan is another that make my list. In hindsight, Casey I guess could be on the list because he won a MVP. But after he left for the NFL, he just never was the same.
And those three are on my poll list.
JohnnyMusso wrote: ↑Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:17 pm
Kapp never should have traded him. We traded 5 good players to get him and only got 1 good one back. Dunnigan should have played here longer as Flutie. Both Kapp and Obie made critical mistakes that lead to them getting fired, though Kapp did something underhanded which is why he got fired. Don't remember what though.
I'll ask you the same question I asked Fred. Assuming your impressions and memories of Joe Kapp were good given the fact that he led the Lions to their first Grey Cup in 1964, then were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games?