Official NFL Thread: 2013-2014 Season

[South Pender]

russel Wilson totally sucks. no way should he be pro bowl.

peyton rules. best qb ever.

Peyton Manning may go down as the best NFL QB of all time, but, at the moment, I think he'd have a hard time beating out Joe Montana for that honor in most fans' eyes. But, "Wilson sucks"? Just for the purposes of a fair comparison, Peyton Manning's regular season quarterback ratings in his first two years in the NFL were 71.2 (1998) and 90.7 (1999). Russell Wilson's first two years in the NFL yielded regular season quarterback ratings for him of 100.0 (2012) and 101.2 (2013). Something to think about?

[South Pender]

Sorry. Double post.

[KnowItAll]

russel Wilson totally sucks. no way should he be pro bowl.

peyton rules. best qb ever.

Peyton Manning may go down as the best NFL QB of all time, but, at the moment, I think he'd have a hard time beating out Joe Montana for that honor in most fans' eyes. But, "Wilson sucks"? Just for the purposes of a fair comparison, Peyton Manning's regular season quarterback ratings in his first two years in the NFL were 71.2 (1998) and 90.7 (1999). Russell Wilson's first two years in the NFL yielded regular season quarterback ratings for him of 100.0 (2012) and 101.2 (2013). Something to think about?

yeah, I just think he has sucked that last half dozen games so maybe he just in a slump

as for manning Montana comparison

Montana 1.89 tds for every int
manning 2.24 tds for every int

Montana 14 seasons - 40,551 yds
manning 14 seasons - 64,964 yds (not including this last yr)

Montana passer rating - 92.3
manning passer rating - 97.2 (second only to Rickey Ray 98.0 in combining both leagues.)

montana completion pct - 63.2
manning completion pct - 65.5

With this last yr included, mannings stats will even be better.

If manning plays healthy 3 more yrs worth, he will pass AC for first in overall passing with less yrs played than the 4 guys ahead of him now.

[South Pender]

yeah, I just think he has sucked that last half dozen games so maybe he just in a slump

as for manning Montana comparison

Montana 1.89 tds for every int
manning 2.24 tds for every int

Montana 14 seasons - 40,551 yds
manning 14 seasons - 64,964 yds (not including this last yr)

Montana passer rating - 92.3
manning passer rating - 97.2 (second only to Rickey Ray 98.0 in combining both leagues.)

montana completion pct - 63.2
manning completion pct - 65.5

With this last yr included, mannings stats will even be better.

If manning plays healthy 3 more yrs worth, he will pass AC for first in overall passing with less yrs played than the 4 guys ahead of him now.

Yeah, you're certainly right about Wilson having looked less effective in the last few games, but he was actually much better than it seemed in yesterday's title game, putting up a 104.6 quarterback rating (vs. Kaepernick's 56.4, but that, of course, overlooks CK's rushing yards).

But to get to the Montana vs. Manning comparison, I think people give JM the edge because of his better performance in the post-season, a time when PM has been less effective. Manning has a post-season passer rating of 88.6 (right up to and including yesterday's game), whereas JM had a 95.6, and, of course, JM has the four Super Bowl rings to PM's one (although that could increase). Just out of interest, Russell Wilson's post-season rating (over 4 games) is 94.5.

Just one other point: Manning (at 97.2) can't be second to only Ricky Ray (combining both leagues) in passer rating, with Aaron Rodgers (my pick for best NFL quarterback currently playing) having a 104.6 QB rating over 9 seasons in Green Bay, not to mention Drew Brees with his 100.5 over 13 seasons in San Diego and New Orleans.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to diminish Manning's accomplishments. He is a great quarterback. The question of who is the best quarterback all-time can't, I think, ever be definitively established, because of playing conditions, rule changes, supporting cast (quality of O-line and receivers), etc., that differ from one quarterback playing at a certain time with a certain team and another playing, perhaps, at a different time with a very different team. The quarterback rating, while useful, falls short of telling the whole story about a QB's effectiveness. I think yesterday's Seahawks-49ers game illustrates this. Was Wilson really the more effective QB? Hard to claim that when Kaepernick run all over the 'Hawks for 130 yards. On the other hand, if we consider the passing game alone, Wilson was probably even more effective than Kaepernick than a comparison of the QB ratings alone would suggest. Wilson was playing behind a much weaker O-line (being constantly chased out of the pocket) and had less talented receivers to throw to, and yet managed to complete 64% of his passes and put up a QB rating of 104.6, compared with Kaepernick's 56.4, while playing behind a solid O-line, not much pressure, and great receivers in Crabtree, Boldin, and Davis. (Although, perhaps I've been selling Baldwin, Tate, and Miller a little short.)

[KnowItAll]

Just one other point: Manning (at 97.2) can't be second to only Ricky Ray (combining both leagues) in passer rating, with Aaron Rodgers (my pick for best NFL quarterback currently playing) having a 104.6 QB rating over 9 seasons in Green Bay, not to mention Drew Brees with his 100.5 over 13 seasons in San Diego and New Orleans.

yes, you make a lot of good points.

as for aaron Rodgers, he is not on the list I am using. I am using a wiki list of gridiron quarterbacks passing statistics. this list is based on the top 25 according to yardage.

re brew brees, this list says he is at 95.3 which matches NFL.com stats for his career.

so it remains that of the top 25 in yards passed, RR has the best rating.

I had assumed this list included playoffs yet even though it says last update dec 30 2013, it has included the stats for 2013 for nfl reg season. Maybe your career stat for Drew Brees includes post season?

[South Pender]

yes, you make a lot of good points.

as for aaron Rodgers, he is not on the list I am using. I am using a wiki list of gridiron quarterbacks passing statistics. this list is based on the top 25 according to yardage.

re brew brees, this list says he is at 95.3 which matches NFL.com stats for his career.

so it remains that of the top 25 in yards passed, RR has the best rating.

I had assumed this list included playoffs yet even though it says last update dec 30 2013, it has included the stats for 2013 for nfl reg season. Maybe your career stat for Drew Brees includes post season?

Makes sense. I got Brees' rating wrong, giving his post-season QB rating by mistake. The 95.3 you cite is correct. That's really interesting about Ricky Ray. I've considered him the best QB in the CFL for many years--given his accuracy--but didn't know he ranked that highly when compared with top NFL QBs.

I think it will be interesting to follow Russell Wilson's career. My prediction is that he will develop into an elite QB. The pundits have talked a lot about Kaepernick's arm strength (which is phenomenal; we saw that yesterday with that ridiculous 26-yard jump-pass--both feet off the ground--that was on a rope and right to the receiver) and that he can make all the passes. I'd like to find out more about Wilson's arm strength and whether the experts think he can make all the passes too. I've seen him make some nice deep passes (like the 2nd quarter 51-yard bomb to Doug Baldwin yesterday). Perhaps because he's short for a QB, the pundits don't see great arm strength. He does, however, have very large hands, and this is a real advantage for a QB.

[SammyGreene]

49ers coaching staff must be banging their heads against the wall today.

Their offensive game plan out of the gate was very conservative but excellent given they weren't going to make any early mistakes that would lead to easy points for the Seahawks which is so often the case dealing with the 12th man at Century Link. Kaepernick didn't force any of his early throws and, when he doubt, he took off and produced some huge runs.
Yet in the end he makes two crucial 4th qt decisions on the Chancellor INT and then the tipped INT ball by Sherman that never should have been thrown. Isn't the golden rule on a fade route in the end zone to put the ball in the place where only a receiver can get his hands on it? A heck of a play by Sherman but no way that should have been almost a "jump ball" scenario on 1st down with 2 timeouts left. A 49ers beat writer suggested he had Davis wide open about the 5 yard line.

One outstanding football game!!!

[notahomer]

Yeah, you're certainly right about Wilson having looked less effective in the last few games, but he was actually much better than it seemed in yesterday's title game, putting up a 104.6 quarterback rating (vs. Kaepernick's 56.4, but that, of course, overlooks CK's rushing yards).

But to get to the Montana vs. Manning comparison, I think people give JM the edge because of his better performance in the post-season, a time when PM has been less effective. Manning has a post-season passer rating of 88.6 (right up to and including yesterday's game), whereas JM had a 95.6, and, of course, JM has the four Super Bowl rings to PM's one (although that could increase). Just out of interest, Russell Wilson's post-season rating (over 4 games) is 94.5.

Just one other point: Manning (at 97.2) can't be second to only Ricky Ray (combining both leagues) in passer rating, with Aaron Rodgers (my pick for best NFL quarterback currently playing) having a 104.6 QB rating over 9 seasons in Green Bay, not to mention Drew Brees with his 100.5 over 13 seasons in San Diego and New Orleans.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to diminish Manning's accomplishments. He is a great quarterback. The question of who is the best quarterback all-time can't, I think, ever be definitively established, because of playing conditions, rule changes, supporting cast (quality of O-line and receivers), etc., that differ from one quarterback playing at a certain time with a certain team and another playing, perhaps, at a different time with a very different team. The quarterback rating, while useful, falls short of telling the whole story about a QB's effectiveness. I think yesterday's Seahawks-49ers game illustrates this. Was Wilson really the more effective QB? Hard to claim that when Kaepernick run all over the 'Hawks for 130 yards. On the other hand, if we consider the passing game alone, Wilson was probably even more effective than Kaepernick than a comparison of the QB ratings alone would suggest. Wilson was playing behind a much weaker O-line (being constantly chased out of the pocket) and had less talented receivers to throw to, and yet managed to complete 64% of his passes and put up a QB rating of 104.6, compared with Kaepernick's 56.4, while playing behind a solid O-line, not much pressure, and great receivers in Crabtree, Boldin, and Davis. (Although, perhaps I've been selling Baldwin, Tate, and Miller a little short.)

As far as the Manning debate goes....he's been AWESOME in the regular season. However, BIG mistakes seem to happen in the playoffs.

I think Wilson is going to develop into an amazing QB. Kaepernick? He's got work to do, IMO. I've been saying for weeks that Kaepernick has been getting away with a lot. Seattle shut down Gore and that left Kaepernick and his recievers. So I wasn't surprised to see him toss up some FREEBIEs. Aikman stated how Kaepernick had quite a few INTS dropped by the DB. Kaepernick just seems to LOCK-IN to a guy. It works a lot of the time but doesn't at others.

[notahomer]

Some other Monday Musings....

Richard Sherman and Michael Crabtree had themselves quite a TWITTER WAR (probably not the right term). Okay call it a "TWIT-FIT"

I don't get this. Sherman was mad, calling Crabtree a bad reciever in one interview, a mediocre reciever in another. Crabtree said 'he got thrown at ONE TIME'.

Well guys, IMO, you are both dummies. Crabtree...there is a reason why Sherman only had ONE ball thrown his way. Sherman....if Crabtree is no good, why do you deserve any props for covering him. IMO, a great football player is like any other professional athlete. Respect your opponents. Don't worship them. But you gotta respect them....
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One Vancouverite leaving the NFC CHampionship game yesterday.....Claims to be a Canuck season ticket holder. (paraphrasing) I've never been to anything like that. I'm a canuck season ticket holder but we got nothing on these Seahawk fans...they are AMAZING...
(okay, but it is a little apple/oranges. Football offers chances for fans to directly impact calls and this was a championship game. of course, as a football junkie, I'm never surprised a guy would prefer football over canucks hockey but I digress ).
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Bill Belichick had some nasty comments directed towards Wes Welker. Claims that Welker purposely injured Talib. It was an obvious pick, IMO but I don't see intent to injure by Welker. Bottom line is that injuries do impact football games. Talib's injury changed the offence for the Broncos by taking out the Patriots TOP DB. The 49ers game was highly impacted by the O-lineman they lost on the goal line plunge

[South Pender]

Some other Monday Musings....

Richard Sherman and Michael Crabtree had themselves quite a TWITTER WAR (probably not the right term). Okay call it a "TWIT-FIT"

I don't get this. Sherman was mad, calling Crabtree a bad reciever in one interview, a mediocre reciever in another. Crabtree said 'he got thrown at ONE TIME'.

Yep, they're both dummies, but I think Sherman is by far the worse. The taunting (choke sign) after the int. that ended the game was extremely cheesy, and calling Crabtree a "bad" or "mediocre" receiver is ridiculous; the guy's a great receiver. The story I heard is that, in the off-season at some event, Crabtree said something disrespectful about Sherman, but, as far as I know, we have only Sherman's word for that. Sherman is a somewhat disgraceful human being, in my view, although there's no doubt he's a great player. Don't these guys learn about modesty, courtesy, and class when they're growing up? Haven't they been taught that bragging is childish and low-class. I guess that much of this changed in the 1970s when Joe Namath was heard to say "if you've got it, flaunt it." But it makes me cringe every time I hear this crap. Maybe Tony Dungy (always a classy guy) can take Sherman aside and show him what it takes to be a man.

Bill Belichick had some nasty comments directed towards Wes Welker. Claims that Welker purposely injured Talib. It was an obvious pick, IMO but I don't see intent to injure by Welker. Bottom line is that injuries do impact football games. Talib's injury changed the offence for the Broncos by taking out the Patriots TOP DB. The 49ers game was highly impacted by the O-lineman they lost on the goal line plunge

Too bad Belichick said this. It makes him sound like a poor loser. I don't think there's a chance in hell that Welker was trying to inflict an injury on Talib on that play. That kind of pick play (or "rub") is run all the time, and Welker's a little guy who is definitely not a badass. He's had enough injuries himself to not purposely inflict one on another guy; it just doesn't seem to be in Welker's character to play dirty. IMO Belichick made himself look bad with that comment. I wonder whether there was some bad blood between Belichick and Welker long before this incident, perhaps related to Welker's not re-signing with the Patriots this season.

[South Pender]

Here's a short, fun off-the-field story from Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback website, written by Jenny Vrentas on the phenomenon sweeping Seattle--Russellmania!

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/21/russell-wilson-fans/
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A couple of Seahawks notes that augur well going into the Super Bowl: (a) Percy Harvin may very well be well enough to play (that's the expectation, and we should know soon) and (b) outstanding OLB K. J. Wright will have another two weeks to heal up from his foot surgery and be strong in the big one. Wright played some in the conference final, but his replacement at OLB, Malcolm Smith, played more. And let's not forget Smith's hustle down into the end zone to grab the tip from Richard Sherman that ended the game. A good illustration of the Seahawks' depth at many positions. Remember how Wright just completely neutralized Jimmy Graham in the regular-season game against the Saints (although the 'Hawks' safeties did it in the Divisional playoff game). I expect Wright or Chancellor to make TE Julius Thomas a non-factor in the Super Bowl. (Unfortunately, that still leaves, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, and Wes Welker available!)
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[notahomer]

Here's a short, fun off-the-field story from Peter King's Monday Morning Quarterback website, written by Jenny Vrentas on the phenomenon sweeping Seattle--Russellmania!

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/21/russell-wilson-fans/
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A couple of Seahawks notes that augur well going into the Super Bowl: (a) Percy Harvin may very well be well enough to play (that's the expectation, and we should know soon) and (b) outstanding OLB K. J. Wright will have another two weeks to heal up from his foot surgery and be strong in the big one. Wright played some in the conference final, but his replacement at OLB, Malcolm Smith, played more. And let's not forget Smith's hustle down into the end zone to grab the tip from Richard Sherman that ended the game. A good illustration of the Seahawks' depth at many positions. Remember how Wright just completely neutralized Jimmy Graham in the regular-season game against the Saints (although the 'Hawks' safeties did it in the Divisional playoff game). I expect Wright or Chancellor to make TE Julius Thomas a non-factor in the Super Bowl. (Unfortunately, that still leaves, Demaryius Thomas, Eric Decker, and Wes Welker available!)
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I think the secondary is not going to have a problem with the Broncos recievers. D. Thomas just seems invisible when there is some physical (translation ANY SEAHAWK) defender on him. IMO, Manning will be the key to the Broncos passing game. I know, I know, DUH!!! What I mean though is if the Broncos Oline gives Manning time...okay maybe they do well. They don't give him that time? Thats when Manning makes a mistake or two. I mean the Superbowl the Saints won over the Broncos seemed to be one of those games where Manning was going to get it done. But, ball control by the Saints, that onside kick and whaddya know Peyton served up a giftwrapped picksix. So, I realize Seattle probably can't get into the holes that a Brees, Rivers or Brady have been able to get out of versus a Manning QB'd team but its another one of those "SURE Mannings great BUT....." questions, IMO. Guess, we'll see.....
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Saw a brief bit on NFL network where most (over 90%) of the top rated offences (rated #1) who've made it to the Superbowl have not gone on to win the actual game. They showed teams including the 2007 Patriots who led the NFL regular season in offence but DID NOT GO ON to win the game that mattered.

[KnowItAll]

just saw john Elway throw a beautiful td pass to tim brown in flag football. what a thrill it was

[South Pender]

Saw a brief bit on NFL network where most (over 90%) of the top rated offences (rated #1) who've made it to the Superbowl have not gone on to win the actual game. They showed teams including the 2007 Patriots who led the NFL regular season in offence but DID NOT GO ON to win the game that mattered.

Well, let's hope the old saying "offense sells tickets, but defense wins championships" holds true in this year's SB.
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I think the off-season is going to be interesting for the Seahawks. Last off-season, Pete Carroll and John Schneider went out and got Percy Harvin and the two pass-rushers, Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett, and the latter two have really made a decent defense very good. I think the D is pretty set now (although they've got to hold onto the guys they've got), with the loss of Brandon Browner not that serious with Byron Maxwell (or possibly Walter Thurmond) ready to step in. If they add anyone to the D, it might ideally be a real animal of a big 3-technique or nose tackle type like a Ndamukong Suh to put in there beside Brandon Mebane to stop the run. Still, Clint McDonald and Tony McDaniel have done well alongside Mebane, so it's not critical.

It's the offense that needs the help. I see three areas where improvement could make a big difference and make the 'Hawks really really tough on O. I've been going on (probably way too much) about the need for a true No. 1 wide receiver, and I think that if they could pick one up in the off-season (a replacement for Sidney Rice), their passing attack would be deadly--with a healthy Percy Harvin, along with Golden Tate and Doug Baldwin, not to mention TEs Zach Miller and this new Canadian kid, Luke Willson, who, at 6-5, 250 lbs., is said to have wide receiver speed. Just imagine that potential to go with The Beast and a good run game. The other real need I see for the Seahawks is at guard, where they've been somewhat weak. Just look at what the great protection afforded by Ben Grubbs and Jahri Evans has made possible for Drew Brees in NO--two consistent Pro Bowl guards. A couple of really stout and nasty additions at guard would go a long way towards reducing the number of sacks Russell Wilson has suffered. I think that's where I'd concentrate with respect to the O-line, although RT Breno Giacomini has, in my opinion, passed his best-before date. The 'Hawks are very solid at C and LT.

[notahomer]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1931 ... ns-offense

So, Vince Lombardi's grandson is the new OC for the Detroit Lions. Hope he does well as the Lions have gone from being putrid to contender and now seem to be slipping back to useless again. Offence looks awesome at times, so will Lombardi help the Lions win a Lombardi? (sorry, couldn't resist)
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Jerry Rice is the featured story on the NFL Networks "a Football life". I'm gonna try and catch this one (no pun intended). I always have respected Rice and the work effort he put into perfecting what is now a craft, IMO.....
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Wow, saw an exec from the officiating department break down two calls (one call each AFC/NFC championships). According to him Welker's pick/rub was NOT pass interference and was a legal play....

Bowman's fumble recovery where he injured his knee, should have been ruled a fumble, recovered by 49ers but since a call had been made, the procedure from that point on was correct and he feels its likely this may change in the offseason. However, he said, one exceptions start getting made the rule becomes more complicated......
I think there is an easy fix on that. Let the coach CHOOSE to review it or not. He would have and the mistake would have been overturned. If a coach takes a risk on a less cut/dry fumble thats his problem. Replay is often meant to catch the OBVIOUS mistakes. The officials are humans like the rest of us and I freely admit, get it right more often than I do. I often think a call was screwed but using replay the official GOT IT RIGHT in real time whereas I needed a review to prove my intuition WRONG.