2012 U.S. Presidential Election Thread

[Robbie]

There's always a lot of interest in political threads, and even though most of you are probably not American and cannot vote, I'm sure most Canadians have a keen interest in the upcoming election especially since what happens in America always affects Canada given the fact that they are the biggest trading partners. And I'm sure the Canadian expatriates are closely watching the election, including the debate tonight.

Who do you hope to win and why?

[274always]

already sent my ballot as an overseas citizen

[Sir Purrcival]

Would hate to see the US go forward by going back.

[cromartie]

Not a hard call for me, as a liberal American in a swing state.

[prairielion]

Romney definately had Obama on the defensive tonight. Maybe Obama does need a teleprompter afterall.

[WestCoastJoe]

Protecting a lead (Obama), playing it safe even applies in Politics. The underdog plays more aggressively (Romney).

Whoever wins, as it is in politics and government, the people deserve what and whom they vote for.

"People get the government they deserve."

[Toppy Vann]

I thought the President got a bit off guard when Governor Romney proved what others have said about him - that he will say whatever works for his audience.

One of the revealing moments as to the character of Mitt Romney was when out of the blue he told Jim Lehrer the moderator that he'd make cuts to PBS. Jim Lehrer is a PBS institution and that remark was not necessary nor warranted. The facts are that government money is a very small part of PBS and the NPR - but again this is not about facts but the character of the man.

Another revealing moment as to how he thinks of people was the use of his 5 sons when it came to lying.

ROMNEY: “Look, I’ve got five boys I’m used to people saying something that’s not always true but just keep repeating it and ultimately hoping I’ll believe it. But that is not the case.”

Based on all the lies he told in the debate we know where his sons learned that behaviour.

Remember this is the same Mitt Romney who has been caught on over stating his role in the winter Olympics where other senior people say he did a good job but has vastly overstated the problems he faced and the role he played as he did not do it alone.

This is a the same Romney who used a real police uniform and who allegedly stopped cars on roads with it!

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/mitt-r ... y-fake-cop

To me this is how the real Mitt Romney thinks and that is how he will act if he is in office. While I have long been intrigued by US politics the reality is that for Canada to do better economically we need a strong and healthy economy to the south of us.

The very sad thing about the Republican Party today like our Conservative Party in Canada is that the Republicans have lost their heart and care for people. They campaign and attack government and fail to see that it takes a partnership with business, education and gov't to help the citizens. The old Republicans used to be the fiscal conservatives now they are the profligate spenders and the Democrats not that way.

That the Republicans can say we're going to take back the White House after the mess they left is shocking. Notice they never mention George W. Bush.

The fact checking for the speech tonight suggests that Romney told more porkies again. The irony is that the media think he won.

The Republicans don't care about the facts as this party has fallen to where they embrace the theme that "lying is winning."

Back home I feel our Conservatives are little different.

[TheLionKing]

I was surprised that Obama didn't go after some of Romney's controversial comments like the 47% of the population live on government handouts etc.

[Toppy Vann]

No problem. Zing all you want.

But just seeing some of the debate again tonight here and it is further INCREDIBLE how Romney is just simply full of it. While he is right that the states have the right to education his saying that let the feds should stay out of it and let the states do this defies common sense. The states are BROKE.

The 716 billion he says Obama took out of Medicare is absolute balderdash and a lie.

Top Romney Adviser: States Will Have To Cover People With Pre-Existing Conditions Under President Romney

October 3, 2012, 11:30 PM 29738

After the first presidential debate at the University of Denver in Colorado on Wednesday night, one of Mitt Romney’s top advisers acknowledged that, as a result Romney’s plan to repeal Obamacare, people with pre-existing medical conditions would likely be unable to purchase insurance.

The admission directly contradicts the GOP candidate’s claim during the debate that “pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan” — a contention Romney has repeated on the trail and that his campaign has repeatedly walked back.

Romney's view of choice - gov't or private companies - is as Obama said just going to end up with the good risks insured and all others left to go on the gov't scheme which means the gov't scheme costs will rise. Insurance is a pool and all risks in the same pool bring costs down for the lower end. If you can get out and into a pool of the best risks your rates will be low.

My cousin - an American - nearly broke her mom's savings due to a severe home accident and many operations. The town even did fundraisers to help and it nearly broke them.

The media are saying Obama was very tired and didn't find time to better prepare. I also think he should have taken a shot at the 47% comment where Romney dissed a lot of good people who work hard or worked hard for their country.

Voters in the west decry China (where I am now) for its one party system but wow, we in North America swallow whatever they tell us.

[cromartie]

The problem with the USA is they spend too much money. Their whole system is predicated on the entire world sinking capital into their safe, stable, massive economy. Except it's becoming less safe, stable and large every day. They're so used to buying the cadillac of everything in every department, and their spending scandals are of such a massive scale (there is, quite literally, an obscene, multi-billion dollar program to give away free cell phones in the States, as just one example) that I think they're due to come to earth with a tremendous thud no matter who wins. And we're all going to feel that thud when it happens.

I like telling my American chums their real problem is they don't have a Queen. Well, not until Canadian banks under a series of clever acronyms (TD, BMO, etc) buy up the rebel joint and present it to her Majesty as some jubilee present. That's how we got the Suez Canal, I tell 'em. That frightens Yanks for some reason.

I'm not the least bit frightened. A military takeover of Canada would take approximately 20 minutes. Or we could take the bombs and go home, and you could speak Russian. Your call.

The real problem is actually twofold. One, we're straining ourselves to death serving as the world's policeman. $1.5 of the $3.5 trillion US budge was related to defense and intelligence related activities. Spending a decade in an unnecessary trillion dollar resource war didn't help matters. The second is that we're basically a nation of teenagers. Half of whom want to spend money on everything, the other half of whom don't actually want to pay for any of it. It's worth stating that those groups DO NOT break down according to party affiliation neatly. People should be long past the point that concern over the deficit on the part of the Republican Party is anything more than window dressing. Everyone wants to spend, everyone wants something for nothing, the two major parties just want to do different things with the money.

I swing right so I'm pulling for the Mormon over the teleprompter in chief (for a guy who is supposedly the greatest speaker since Christ, he sure looked like a dullard tonight). Romney will be better for trade and foreign relations, which means he's better for Canada. On the other hand, I like seeing the value of gold and silver go up, along with other precious metals, like brass (I have stock in Smith & Wesson, and Ruger), so it's been nice for my pocketbook to watch Obama destroy the US economy while creating a hugely divisive society that transcends mere political affiliation.

The "destruction" of the US economy didn't start on Obama's watch and has been based on an ongoing series of bubbles going at least as far back as the early 1990s. One can make a reasonable argument that the President, who on his best day regardless of party affiliation might have an influence over 15% of the economy or so, hasn't done the best job of accelerating a recovery. Their is a paucity of thought in this administration of trying any significant stimulus methodology beyond piss down economics with our fingers crossed, which doesn't work and hasn't worked in the US, ever. But that thought process, too, transcends administrations.

That said, we are discovering some advantages to a weaker dollar as a result of a higher debt load. Though it's a pain in the ass to me as a tourist in another country, it has helped the manufacturing industry recover in my neck of the woods considerably. In the IT sector it presents opportunities to re-onshore development houses that had been sent overseas in the previous decade (as I predicted it would three years ago). Couple that with a rise in transport costs and the picture looks a bit better in states that have taken a beating in manufacturing jobs over the previous 20 years. It helps precious metal investors as well.

Whatever. When I look at the US political scene, I thank God I was born under the Westminster system of parliamentary democracy. Say what you like about our system, but when things need to change in a hurry, we as a people can quickly change course. The Yanks? Not so much.

On that I'd agree.

I'm going to cut programs that are unnecessary and we need to borrow money from China to pay for?

Again, highly dubious since only 18.5% of US debt is foreign owned.

That said, demography is destiny. Top line national polls for President mean nothing. While, on style, Romney clearly won the night, the substance isn't going to wear very well. Further, while Romney did exactly what his core supporters wanted him to do (as John Kerry did in 2004), he did little to impress swayable non white male voters. He's losing Hispanic voters by 30 points and women by 20. His debate performance did nothing to help that. Promising to kill Green jobs hurts him in Iowa. The absence of discussion on the automobile industry does nothing to help him in Ohio. Going on record as being willing to turn Medicare into a voucher program hammers a net negative point home in Florida.

[274always]

score one for kitchen aid. wooops.

[Toppy Vann]

The problem that the US faces is the money in the system that gets candidates elected and lobbies and gains influence.

As Cromartie notes, trying to be the world's policeman is killing them. The White House (neutral Budget Office) said they put two wars on the credit card. The roots of this was in the Project for a New North American Security with the Rumsfelds, etc and all signers or supporters of the document that has been taken down but still searchable online. That suggested to impose the US on others.

As the Iraq War run up the costs they couldn't pay for out of funds available Haliburton (an Iraq Contractor) doubled its share price and Blackwater (now with a name change) has soared as a result. Ike said as he left office he was concerned for the military-industrial complex and his concerns are true now.

The US system of government was set up by the Founders to prevent the despots and dictators of Europe. The branches of government are set up in the Constitution so that no one branch can do anything without the concurrence of the others. The USA has had hundreds of years of good federal government where politicians of both parties worked together. As the GOP Leader in the Senate said two years that - their task now was to put Obama out of work and that is what they 've been trying to do.

Obama said there is a tax break for moving jobs overseas and Romney says he is wrong. I am not sure of that but I do agree that they need to incent home manufacturing as much as they can BUT free trade treaties limit them like they limit Canada in what you can do.

Business and the bottom line return to shareholders and CEO and exec pay levels in some industries incent them to move factories to the lowest cost producers. We meet client here in China and Hong Kong and their US parents are doing just that. First they moved out of the USA and then to China and now heading west to seek out the lowest cost producers and workers as far away as Sri Lanka or as near as Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and Vietnam. I have no answer to this one but somehow there needs to be a value that business leaders now don't possess and commitment to the communities they are resident in. It is a complex issue - look at the number of BC folks who cross the border to avoid taxes or gain access to lower goods yet get all the benefits of the Canadian system.

[prairielion]

People, and the mainstream media can continue to support and coddle Obama, but his record speaks for itself. And you can't blame the past administration for ever for your massive failings.

[South Pender]

You know the saying, guys: "If you're not a liberal in your 20's, you have no heart, but if you're not a conservative in your 50's, you have no brain."