Questions swirl about Wally Buono

[joe kapp22]

If B.C. and Edmonton finish tied, the Eskimos clinch third place because they have a 2-1 edge on games against the Lions.

The Lions' inconsistent season has earned Buono both praise and criticism.

His detractors argue the team's horrible 1-7 start can be blamed on Buono's failure to read talent and inability to put together a team capable of winning in today's game.

His proponents point to B.C.'s 6-3 record down the stretch as an example of Buono's patience for waiting for young players to mature and his ability to convince a team to believe in itself.

"Wally is someone that is very sure of himself,'' said veteran centre Angus Reid. "When he makes a decision, he sticks with it to the end.

"I think he picked good, talented players. I think the problem was, we had so many young guys it took longer than he hoped for the team to jell. He knew it was going to happen. It was a matter of hanging in there and keeping us believing it until it started coming together.''

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=339915

A fair article about Buono, and the season to date, to me the real question is "which team is this"?

The 1-7 team that was hamstrung by errors, poor play design, and lack of a Qb, or the 6-3 (could have easily been 8-1) team that played solid football?

[WestCoastJoe]

Does anyone know a perfectt coach? Nah.

Wally has the character and skills to make him the all time win leader in the CFL. He's been here now for 8 years, in the spotlight, with decisions obvious in games and even off the field. As a coach, Lions' fans know him. We've seen his strength, in hanging in there this season, and last. And we've seen his human imperfections as a coach.

I've said this to a number of people. He's the same coach he's been all the years. IMO he hasn't slipped or changed that much. But I do believe the challenge he faces is that the league has changed and improved. Hufnagel and Trestman (and Kent Austen), with their great talent for offense and quarterback development have raised the bar. Wally will tell you he is not an X's and O's coach. He needs top assistants, especially at DC and OC. The guys I just mentioned above are top notch X's and O's guys, and their teams show it.

IMO if Benevides and Chapdelaine, with Buono's encouragement, can get and stay up to speed with the changing times, then we are alright. I would say that is a big question. As a fan, based on the record and the tape, I have some doubts.

[Blitz]

Does anyone know a perfectt coach? Nah.

Wally has the character and skills to make him the all time win leader in the CFL. He's been here now for 8 years, in the spotlight, with decisions obvious in games and even off the field. As a coach, Lions' fans know him. We've seen his strength, in hanging in there this season, and last. And we've seen his human imperfections as a coach.

I've said this to a number of people. He's the same coach he's been all the years. IMO he hasn't slipped or changed that much. But I do believe the challenge he faces is that the league has changed and improved. Hufnagel and Trestman, with their great talent for offense and quarterback development have raised the bar. Wally will tell you he is not an X's and O's coach. He needs top assistants, especially at DC and OC. The two guys I just mentioned above are top notch X's and O's guys, and their teams show it.

IMO if Benevides and Chapdelaine, with Buono's encouragement, can get and stay up to speed with the changing times, then we are alright. I would say that is a big question. As a fan, based on the record and the tape, I have some doubts.

Wally's successful record, mostly based upon regular season success, rather than Grey Cup wins was accomplished by running a tight ship and hiring good people around him. He had Hufnagel in Calgary, a very innovative offensive coordinator followed by George Cortez in Calgary along with ownership during those years, who were willing to spend as well. He had George Shivers in Calgary at the top of his game.

In B.C. he had Bobby Ackles, Bob O'Billovich, and Roy Shivers again and Shivers has been back on the top of his game this season. He also had Dave Ritchie, a very innovative defensive coordinator and our defense was the backbone of our team during Ritchie's time here. Mike Benevedes struggled to fill Ritchie's shoes initially but overall, with the addition of the experience of Rich Stubler our defense is back to being a top drawer defense overall.

However, Wally's major achilles heel has been that he's stuck wanting to run the old Calgary offence and the only person he knows who can run it is Chapdelaine. However, Chap is a pedestrian offensive coordinator who lacks the touch and the adaptability of a Hufnagel or Cortez who continued to be innovative each season they were Wally's offensive coordianators. An Ineffective offence,under Chap has cost us dearly in playoff games and with an explosive offence we would have won many more Grey Cups during Wally's time here.

If Wally returns as HC, its the area that needs addressing. Our Leos president is concerned about our offence. Former players have been critical of our scheme or blocing strategies. A former player this year said Wally is too stuck into his system and its an offensive system that needs an overhaul.

Guess we'll find out in the off-season but if we make the playoffs that necessary change will be less liley to happen, which would be disappointing because, with an improved offensive system we definitly have the talent to won a Grey Cup. If we make the playoffs we have a chance to do that this season but if we want to create another long run at being the best in the West offensive strategy change is essential.

[Toppy Vann]

Blitz.. WB is tops in the owner's books and Mr. Skulsky who expressed an opinion has nothing to say to Wally as he is not WB's boss. Only David B can tell Wally what to when it comes to football and he does not do that.

Wally runs football and reports to the owner.

D.S. as president runs the business and community side only and WB would account to him only on budget items - i.e. stay in the budget (not what he does with the budget).

The only way the Lions get off season changes is if Wally hears voices again like the one that bring back Casey Printers or the one that says get rid of Joe Smith as Rolly L can do what he could do (oh that was a different voice).

If Wally decides it is time to change his offence it will be Jacque C changing it and on game day he will be the same old keep it short pass happy Chappy.

[joe kapp22]

Well, last yr when I first lurked at lionbackers the Defence was a major concern, they added Rich Stubler and the unit has functioned well all year, save for Ricky Ray running for a mindboggling 140 yds, but I digress, I wonder if Chap had an assistant added if it would have the same effect on the Offence that Stubler had for the Defence?

As for Wally Buono the Head Coach, I like many of the things he brings to the table, the one thing that has puzzled me is the lack of discipline on the field, that really has surprised me.

And not by the CFL rookies, but long time CFL veteran players, do they have the impression that Buono has gotten soft?

That to me, if Wally Buono returns for 2011, is the first thing he has to set straight moving forward.

[Lion Guy]

So posts are magically starting to delete themselves huh?

[bclions16]

So posts are magically starting to delete themselves huh?

Post it again. It was funny and did not cross any line here.

[almo89]

I still think Wally is a good head coach. At times he can make some bone headed decisions and we all know he can be pretty stubborn. The thing I like about him is that he brings stability to a franchise though. Look at all the other teams around the league. Head coaches get hired and fired left right and centre. Only in BC we've seen stability and he's been with the Lions since 2003. I do agree that we should have had a couple of more Grey Cup. I hope Wally can make the necessary changes so that our offense improves a lot next year.

[Lion Guy]

Does anyone know a perfectt coach? Nah.

Wally has the character and skills to make him the all time win leader in the CFL. He's been here now for 8 years, in the spotlight, with decisions obvious in games and even off the field. As a coach, Lions' fans know him. We've seen his strength, in hanging in there this season, and last. And we've seen his human imperfections as a coach.

I've said this to a number of people. He's the same coach he's been all the years. IMO he hasn't slipped or changed that much. But I do believe the challenge he faces is that the league has changed and improved. Hufnagel and Trestman, with their great talent for offense and quarterback development have raised the bar. Wally will tell you he is not an X's and O's coach. He needs top assistants, especially at DC and OC. The two guys I just mentioned above are top notch X's and O's guys, and their teams show it.

IMO if Benevides and Chapdelaine, with Buono's encouragement, can get and stay up to speed with the changing times, then we are alright. I would say that is a big question. As a fan, based on the record and the tape, I have some doubts.

Wally's successful record, mostly based upon regular season success, rather than Grey Cup wins was accomplished by running a tight ship and hiring good people around him. He had Hufnagel in Calgary, a very innovative offensive coordinator followed by George Cortez in Calgary along with ownership during those years, who were willing to spend as well. He had George Shivers in Calgary at the top of his game.

In B.C. he had Bobby Ackles, Bob O'Billovich, and Roy Shivers again and Shivers has been back on the top of his game this season. He also had Dave Ritchie, a very innovative defensive coordinator and our defense was the backbone of our team during Ritchie's time here. Mike Benevedes struggled to fill Ritchie's shoes initially but overall, with the addition of the experience of Rich Stubler our defense is back to being a top drawer defense overall.

However, Wally's major achilles heel has been that he's stuck wanting to run the old Calgary offence and the only person he knows who can run it is Chapdelaine. However, Chap is a pedestrian offensive coordinator who lacks the touch and the adaptability of a Hufnagel or Cortez who continued to be innovative each season they were Wally's offensive coordianators. An Ineffective offence,under Chap has cost us dearly in playoff games and with an explosive offence we would have won many more Grey Cups during Wally's time here.

If Wally returns as HC, its the area that needs addressing. Our Leos president is concerned about our offence. Former players have been critical of our scheme or blocing strategies. A former player this year said Wally is too stuck into his system and its an offensive system that needs an overhaul.
Guess we'll find out in the off-season but if we make the playoffs that necessary change will be less liley to happen, which would be disappointing because, with an improved offensive system we definitly have the talent to won a Grey Cup. If we make the playoffs we have a chance to do that this season but if we want to create another long run at being the best in the West offensive strategy change is essential.

Ok, I'll try a different track. You critisize Angus Reid for dissing poor Casey after he left the team; yet do you endorse and use to your benefit comments from former players doing the exact same thing to Wally? Again, why the double standard?

[Sir Purrcival]

I still think Wally is a good head coach. At times he can make some bone headed decisions and we all know he can be pretty stubborn. The thing I like about him is that he brings stability to a franchise though. Look at all the other teams around the league. Head coaches get hired and fired left right and centre. Only in BC we've seen stability and he's been with the Lions since 2003. I do agree that we should have had a couple of more Grey Cup. I hope Wally can make the necessary changes so that our offense improves a lot next year.

What Wally really needs is a top flight personality with as much depth as him to be a sounding board for. He had that with Ackles and Obie and Ritchie. The loss of those three personalities was the loss of other Points of View that he might have been inclined to listen to. He is too strong willed for his own good or the good of the team. We have seen it often enough when he sticks with something that clearly isn't working until he is just about forced to make a change. You only have to go back to Robert Jordan this season to see it. As with all things, the game evolves in one location or another. For a season or two, other teams will play catch up. Where Wally has been slow is in recognizing the changes and taking steps to adapt. He has relied too much on some outstanding talents like Cameron Wake to make up for some of his shortcomings.

[Blitz]

[quote="Lion Guy"

Ok, I'll try a different track. You critisize Angus Reid for dissing poor Casey after he left the team; yet do you endorse and use to your benefit comments from former players doing the exact same thing to Wally? Again, why the double standard?[/quote]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree with you Lion Guy, in that my comments can be seen as a double standard from one set of binoculars. However, I see the situations as different for the following reasons.

1. We are dealing with comments from a former player (Jiminez) about our present Head Coach while the other situation dealt with a present player (Angus Reid) disparaging a former teammate

2, There is an unwritten code that players do not criticize present or former teammates who have gone to war together and especially present or fomer teammates should NEVER discuss the privacy of the locker room, which Angus Reid did.

3. Printers has never said a negative word about Angus Reid or about any Leo teammate or coach to the press or media...ever.

4. Wally initiated the differences between Jiminez and our Leos by criticizing Jiminez publically when we chose not to have Jason back with our Leos this season. Wally often criticizes ex-players and even present players to the press and media. In this situation, now being an ex-player Jiminez was in the situation where he could respond back publically and he finally did.

5. Brent Johnson also publically stated that Jiminez's block was 'shameful', Wally brought the issue of Jason Jiminez's block to the league and Jiminez was fined, even though it was a legal block, but interpreted as an attempt to injury,,,,which I believe it was. However, again, Johnsom should have kept his mouth shut, even though its understandable that he was pissed... and let Wally and the league handle it. Johnson also has the opportunity to deal with the situation on the field today...mano against mano with Jiminez, where the battle needs to be played out.

So overall I see the situations as different. Angus Reid disparaged Printers and his comments included locker room comments. Printers has taken the high road and has never responded to Reids comments and he has never disparaged Reid, or Wally or any Leo teammate or coach ever since he arrived in 2003 or at any time.

Jiminez's comments are a reaction to public comments made about him by Wally in the off-season and by both Wally and players Angus Reid and Johnson, following Jiminez's block on Johnson. Jiminez did make a comment abouit the locker room of our Leos, which while general, in nature, should not have been said. The players locker room is a private sanctity and should always be treated in that way.

I don't like any of it. I didn't like Reid's comments about Printers. I didn't like Wally's off-season comments about Jiminez, which were unnecessary. I didn't like Reid or Johnson's comments about Jiminez and the situation should have been left only in Wally's hands to bring forward to the league. I don't blame Jiminez for reacting back publically in that he has a right to react to public comments about him. I believe Jiminez should have not made the locker room comment.

The whole thing brings a lot more attention to the game today but quite frankly, there has been way too much yakking by a couple of vet players to the press and media, in areas that should not be commented upon, and unfortunately it begins with our Leos. Wally does too much of it too. Its also not smart, in that its fired up Jiminez and someTiger Cats, who having clinched a playoff spot, needed to be kept asleep.

The game will be decided today on the playing ferld, where it needs to be, and not in the media and newspapers.

[Toppy Vann]

Blitz... I agree that trashing former players is not a good for a coach or player, I think the Jimenez comments now are adding some intrigue to the game and it is good for fans.

[pennw]

The way I see it , people who have a problem with Reid's comments , don't like it because Reid contradicts the views being pushed by Printers supporters and calls those views into question about what went on behind the scenes .
This was a completely different unique situation that required answers for the fans considering the major sudden move it was . Some one had had to explain , give account so we could understand instead of coming across as something irrational . We , the fans deserved an explanation and Wally could not do that . Reid stepped up and did it instead . He showed COURAGE to do so and should be applauded for it . Some don't like that and continue with the childish 'violation of the code' thing and keep throwing Reid under the bus for it, not allowing for the uniqueness of this particular situation . That to me is pathetic and classless . And it seems it keeps coming from disgruntled Printers fans , which explains the bias .

Wally himself did say about it , that he had two choices only , and one wasn't an option . But he did not explain what he meant by the options . There obviously was a major rift and it involved Printers . So what were those two choices he had to choose between ? Printers lost it , we were told in the locker room . And Wally's hand was forced as he alluded to . I was surprised and would have wanted Printers to stay on as a back-up myself . But apparently that wasn't possible . So what were the the two choices ? Was it either Printers goes or a bunch of other players go ? We can only speculate of course , but this where Angus has helped us out . My own speculation is that , it may have been the whole O-LINE vs Printers . Printers losing it on them . After he's gone , suddenly the o-line starts to gel , an O-line member happens to also be the one to speak up . The last few games the o-line plays better now that he's gone , was there animosity between Printers and the o-line ? Could it have been fire the o-line or fire Printers?

[Blitz]

Blitz... I agree that trashing former players is not a good for a coach or player, I think the Jimenez comments now are adding some intrigue to the game and it is good for fans.

Certainly doesn't hurt profile this game Toppy and it was important enough for our Leos going in to the game today.

This is a game that our Leos need to focus on only one thing..and that's a big W at the end of the game. We go into this game with motivation, the same starting linup, and a playoff game on the line...its a game we should win, espcially if Bruce doesn't start for Hamilton. Bruce draws double and even triple coverage and it would really help our defense if Bruce doesn't play or gets the hook early.

[Hambone]

The way I see it , people who have a problem with Reid's comments , don't like it because Reid contradicts the views being pushed by Printers supporters and calls those views into question about what went on behind the scenes .
This was a completely different unique situation that required answers for the fans considering the major sudden move it was . Some one had had to explain , give account so we could understand instead of coming across as something irrational . We , the fans deserved an explanation and Wally could not do that . Reid stepped up and did it instead . He showed COURAGE to do so and should be applauded for it . Some don't like that and continue with the childish 'violation of the code' thing and keep throwing Reid under the bus for it, not allowing for the uniqueness of this particular situation . That to me is pathetic and classless . And it seems it keeps coming from disgruntled Printers fans , which explains the bias .

Wally himself did say about it , that he had two choices only , and one wasn't an option . But he did not explain what he meant by the options . There obviously was a major rift and it involved Printers . So what were those two choices he had to choose between ? Printers lost it , we were told in the locker room . And Wally's hand was forced as he alluded to . I was surprised and would have wanted Printers to stay on as a back-up myself . But apparently that wasn't possible . So what were the the two choices ? Was it either Printers goes or a bunch of other players go ? We can only speculate of course , but this where Angus has helped us out . My own speculation is that , it may have been the whole O-LINE vs Printers . Printers losing it on them . After he's gone , suddenly the o-line starts to gel , an O-line member happens to also be the one to speak up . The last few games the o-line plays better now that he's gone , was there animosity between Printers and the o-line ? Could it have been fire the o-line or fire Printers?

It's one of those quirky fan things I think pennw. For some reason fans don't like it when nobody says anything or just gives standard cliche answers. Then when somebody says something outside of cliche answers fans get up in arms over that, especially if they hear something that while likely true is not what they want to hear. It's like we want players and coaches to be candid with their comments only as long as the message is what we want to hear. I honestly don't really recall specifically what was said by Reid, Buono or anyone else after Printers was released. But it seems there was absolutely nothing earth-shattering or not already suspected. Certainly the results since then speak for themselves.