the resurrection of side deals: teams trying to cheat cap?

[DerekDD]

i just re-listened to sportsline, a local radio show, of may 5, 2008 and am just maddened by what the sportsline hosts/panel are saying about teams trying to cheat the salary cap by paying players money that goes on top of their salaries that count against the cap. this extra money to keep the stars happy supposedly isn't being reported and would give these teams a huge advantage in keeping their talent happy.

54 minutes in the side deal issue is talked about:

http://www.620ckrm.com/Archives/file.ph ... %205th.mp3

the boys at sportsline have said for instance that kerry joseph's contract in toronto pays him in 2008 about the same as what he would have earned as a rider this year. obviously we all know that kj wouldn't stand for the same amount of money yet apparently he is gleeful with what is happening in toronto. kj is to be getting another 100 grand under the table in toronto according the the sportsline gang and they also add that in calgary that a buddy of ted hellard is paying burris an extra 100 grand a year to make a few personal appearances and the like.

in other words the side deal monster is rearing its ugly head again.

rod pedersen's source on the matter from cfl insiders:

http://rodpedersen.blogspot.com/search? ... results=20


"I would prefer to live in a world where everything meets the eye. But alas, I make a living in the CFL and nothing there is ever as it seems.

I didn't even have to ask the Riders about the Kerry Joseph-Argonauts-contract extension story. After wondering aloud yesterday how could the Riders NOT afford Joseph in 2008 if he was willing to settle for $250,000 from Toronto, a CFL source contacted me to straighten it out.

I think we can all deduct that Kerry Joseph is a smart guy, right? You can't be CFL MVP by being a dummy. So no, although it appears Joseph went from the CFL's least-expensive market (Regina) to the most-expensive (Toronto) and took a $15,000 paycut, it didn't actually happen. I'm told K-J will get nearly $100,000 in incentives, bonuses, and promotional deals (a.k.a. under-the-table-money).

And you wonder why the CFL movers and shakers have fought salary transparency....."

[Tighthead]

As long as promotional deals are arms' length transactions, there isn't much you can do about them. Trying to determine which ones are legitimate and which ones are not would be near -impossible.

[Big Time]

I'm sure DD got paid for some of his commercials I heard on the radio last year. Bottom line is that there's going to be more endorsement opportunities in big markets like Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal than their will be in Regina. All things considered, if Joseph can get endorsement deals, then that's a huge win for the Argos since they can get him at an affordable rate and attract high priced talent. Even if they broker the deal by setting Joseph up people who will pay endorsements, how is this wrong? It would be different if the owner of the Argos was paying Joseph under the table. But this seems like nothing more than free market capitalism.

[Lion Guy]

i just re-listened to sportsline, a local radio show, of may 5, 2008 and am just maddened by what the sportsline hosts/panel are saying about teams trying to cheat the salary cap by paying players money that goes on top of their salaries that count against the cap. this extra money to keep the stars happy supposedly isn't being reported and would give these teams a huge advantage in keeping their talent happy.

54 minutes in the side deal issue is talked about:

http://www.620ckrm.com/Archives/file.ph ... %205th.mp3

the boys at sportsline have said for instance that kerry joseph's contract in toronto pays him in 2008 about the same as what he would have earned as a rider this year. obviously we all know that kj wouldn't stand for the same amount of money yet apparently he is gleeful with what is happening in toronto. kj is to be getting another 100 grand under the table in toronto according the the sportsline gang and they also add that in calgary that a buddy of ted hellard is paying burris an extra 100 grand a year to make a few personal appearances and the like.

in other words the side deal monster is rearing its ugly head again.

rod pedersen's source on the matter from cfl insiders:

http://rodpedersen.blogspot.com/search? ... results=20


"I would prefer to live in a world where everything meets the eye. But alas, I make a living in the CFL and nothing there is ever as it seems.

I didn't even have to ask the Riders about the Kerry Joseph-Argonauts-contract extension story. After wondering aloud yesterday how could the Riders NOT afford Joseph in 2008 if he was willing to settle for $250,000 from Toronto, a CFL source contacted me to straighten it out.

I think we can all deduct that Kerry Joseph is a smart guy, right? You can't be CFL MVP by being a dummy. So no, although it appears Joseph went from the CFL's least-expensive market (Regina) to the most-expensive (Toronto) and took a $15,000 paycut, it didn't actually happen. I'm told K-J will get nearly $100,000 in incentives, bonuses, and promotional deals (a.k.a. under-the-table-money).

And you wonder why the CFL movers and shakers have fought salary transparency....."

the resurrection of side deals: are teams trying to cheat the cap with them again?

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"i just re-listened to sportsline of may 5, 2008 and am just maddened by what the sportsline hosts/panel are saying about teams trying to cheat the salary cap by paying players money that goes on top of their salaries that count against the cap. this extra money to keep the stars happy supposedly isn't being reported and would give these teams a huge advantage in keeping their talent happy. does the team the bc lions come to mind in this scenario, anybody?"[/b][/size]

How so very, very decent of you to leave off the bolded line from this exact post at Riderfans.com

Your hate-on for the Jiminez, Wally and the Lions in general is palpable. Why bother here??? You want a discussion fine, but don't be two-faced about it.

[Zarquon]

I don't think that there would be much you can do about this type of situation as unless they are working for the team directly or even the owner it would be very difficult to prove it is part of a "side deal."

I mean even the community owned teams have players working for community owned utility companies. Reggie hunt working for SaskTel comes to mind. If the players and more specifically their agents find them additional work I don't have an issue with it.

As for Kerry Joseph he took a massive pay cut last year to help the team. Had he not the Riders would have had to dump some big talent (possibly two players.) Not only did he take this salary deduction but also Won the league MOP title and the Grey Cup. I'm sure he wanted some of that back and Tillman couldn't give it to him so he was gone regardless. Incentives and Bonuses are part of the contracts this includes All-Star bonuses and the such. I know the Lions were worried about be closer to the cap than they wanted due to the number of All-Stars. And one last note leaving Regina and going to Toronto (e.g. cheap market vs. expensive market) isn't a big deal for a player, as are we probably talking about a few grand extra over the season, and being in a big market has its advantages.

[Solar Max]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

[DerekDD]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

i can accept the fact the lions paid up front bonuses of a million dollars in front loading the contracts to have a huge advantage for the next few years. and as far as me leaving out the line about the bc lions and side deals, yeah i left it out so that the idea that side deals are still going on in the cfl would sink in with lionbackers because it still apparently is. you would immediately have been close-minded to it if i kept that line in.

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

[Solar Max]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

i can accept the fact the lions paid up front bonuses of a million dollars in front loading the contracts to have a huge advantage for the next few years. and as far as me leaving out the line about the bc lions and side deals, yeah i left it out so that the idea that side deals are still going on in the cfl would sink in with lionbackers because it still apparently is. you would immediately have been close-minded to it if i kept that line in.

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

YOU call them "Allstars" because of your jealousy, no more, no less. They are journeyman players who do their jobs, and want to stay and play here. The Lions DID pay up front bonuses, and so did the Riders. If the Riders didn't do it enough, blame Roy Shivers, not the BC Lions.

Your conspiracy theories aside, you really should adjust your tinfoil hat, it's getting too tight again.

Let's get to the root of it, Derek. Why all the hatred? It's in every post of yours here, and even more so at riderfans. You're gonna have a heart attack, dude. Why not worry about losing your own coach and qb, and having the fate of your team in the hands of Marcus Crandell?

[Rammer]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

i can accept the fact the lions paid up front bonuses of a million dollars in front loading the contracts to have a huge advantage for the next few years. and as far as me leaving out the line about the bc lions and side deals, yeah i left it out so that the idea that side deals are still going on in the cfl would sink in with lionbackers because it still apparently is. you would immediately have been close-minded to it if i kept that line in.

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

We know, just like the Riders have several players employed at SaskEnergy or whatever. You are not going to be able to curtail players from making money beyond their CFL employer. The league will deem whether or not the money is being funneled or is legitimate as word like this gets around. If it is directly from a club supporter/board of directors company then I would have more issue with it.

[Big Time]

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

Probably has something to do with all that winning, stability, great working environment, great city, playing inside a dome advantage that the salary cap cheating Riders* can't possibly compete with.



Here's a few questions. Which would you prefer?

Wally Buono or Danny Barrett?
Play indoors or in subzero temperature?
Four straight WDF or one playoff home game in 20 years?
Chance to compete for a championship every year or chance to salary cap cheat your way to a championship once every 20 years?
Live in Vancouver or live in Regina?
Play in front of 30 to 40,000 fans per game or play in front of 25-30K?
Vancouver women or Regina women?

Yeah, you're right. The Lions are HUGE cheaters. Shame on them

[Zarquon]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

i can accept the fact the lions paid up front bonuses of a million dollars in front loading the contracts to have a huge advantage for the next few years. and as far as me leaving out the line about the bc lions and side deals, yeah i left it out so that the idea that side deals are still going on in the cfl would sink in with lionbackers because it still apparently is. you would immediately have been close-minded to it if i kept that line in.

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

I'm not sure they are, last year ALL the players that became free agents for the Lions in February did not return, 100%.

One thing that Wally does that is different than most GMs is insist on contract lengths that are 2 years + an option where alot of other contracts out there are 1 year + an option. As a result of this and contract extensions made prior to any deadlines we only had 3 guys that were starters with the team and became free Agents last year none of them played for the Lions in 2007. This year we have zero starters that have become Free Agents.

I know the Riders have been having a tough time the last couple of years but this is due to the mess Roy Shivers left them in on a contract basis. Roy was great at acquiring talent but I'm not sure he was as good an negotiating a good deal with them. I mean in 2006 when the teams were asked to adhere to the cap numbers but it was not enforced the Riders were something like (IIRC) $600K over and Tillman had to come in and deal with that. The fact that the Riders were only $70K over the cap this last year is amazing. The Lions aren't immune to this either. Releasing Dickenson and his $400K Salary certainly helps the Lions maintain being under the cap.

Other reasons in my mind include some already mentioned, team success, team management and personal lifestyle.

[TheLionKing]

Should this really come as a surprise to anyone ? These "behind the back" deals happen all the time whether it be the NFL, CFL, NBA baseball etc.

[Solar Max]

Should this really come as a surprise to anyone ? These "behind the back" deals happen all the time whether it be the NFL, CFL, NBA baseball etc.

I'm sorry, LionKing, but Saskatchewanians do NOT engage in "back room deals". Just ask them.

[ziggy]

Derek cannot accept that BC was under the SMS Luxury Tax, and his team was over, no more, no less.

It isn't a Salary Cap, and it won you a Grey Cup. Why not accept victory? You won. Why all this BC hatred again?

i can accept the fact the lions paid up front bonuses of a million dollars in front loading the contracts to have a huge advantage for the next few years. and as far as me leaving out the line about the bc lions and side deals, yeah i left it out so that the idea that side deals are still going on in the cfl would sink in with lionbackers because it still apparently is. you would immediately have been close-minded to it if i kept that line in.

now someone tell me how the lions have managed the last few years to hardly lose anyone yet still keep signing your allstars when the rest of the league is having a much harder time retaining less talent than you guys?

They sign here for the piped in noise of course! Jeez

[DerekDD]

YOU call them "Allstars" because of your jealousy, no more, no less. They are journeyman players who do their jobs, and want to stay and play here?

i call them allstars because thats what they are not make up crap the way you do. check the allstar roster the last few years. no one is even close to having the same amount of allstars the lions have had. it has nothing to do with jealousy its a plain fact that you are not aware of it seems.

the most allstars with the fewest problems with the cap? anyone can smell a rat. i have news for you. its always been about the money and somehow these allstars are getting it and remaining happy despite the cap.