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I agree with those that find the arrangement bizarre.

It seems like a salesman's move, a distractor for the fans and media. OK, they made a change. But did they really change anything? Same Head Coach. Likely the same coaching staff next year. Same systems. Probably the same product on the field.

But one can see that Wally could hardly have said we are going with Neil McAvoy as GM, or Geroy Simon as GM. And the same coaching staff? That would be bizarre also. Could either of those guys as GM have cleaned house? I don't think so.

Even Hervey can not clean house.

So it is kind of a window dressing. It looks like change, but it is not really change, at least for this coming season.

If there is a new owner, probably Hervey is gone anyway. Then, and only then, will there be real change.

Does it change Wally's workload? McAvoy has done much of the organizing and paper work for years.

I think Ed Hervey is kind of GM in name only. At least for this coming year.

There has been no real change yet.

If the staff is largely the same, the Head Caoch is the same, the players are largely the same, it is business as usual. Most importantly, the systems will be the same. Conservative defence, with soft zone coverage and limited use of blitzing. Plug and play offence from decades ago, with the defence sitting on the routes, all over the receivers. Special teams easily fooled.

This fan has nothing against Ed Hervey per se. He did some good things in Edmonton. I like his HC hirings. I like the talent they brought in. I did not like his attitude to the press and fans. He comes across as very arrogant.

Like many on here say, prove it to us. This moves does little to change anything for 2018.

For this fan, I expect more of the same. Business as usual.

As a fan of Jonathon Jennings, I did like to hear that Hervey says we need to give him better pass protection.

Regarding today's big announcement ... As Shakespeare said: "Much ado about nothing." For now, for 2018, anyway. For 2019, perhaps some hope.

Just IMO ...

Toppy Vann wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:03 pm

I'll grant Hervey two things:

1. Selection of Jason Maas as HC has worked out not badly.

2. Getting Mike Reilly as QB not so bad either.

Hiring Chris Jones and winning the grey cup was pretty good too. Odell Willis. Derel Walker. Otha Foster. Aaron Grymes. John White. James Franklin.

The Eskimos are still running on the team he built. Our team just got a lot more competitive.

B.C.FAN wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:26 am

Could their thought process include targeting someone to be promoted to the 2019 HC job? There was some pontification over Laval's Glen Constantin a year or two ago. Could he be a consideration to bring in for a year to get his pro feet wet as a Coordinator then promote him?

Glen Constantin is not going anywhere. He has a VERY secure setup in Laval and even he admits that his coaching style is more suited for college football and not the pro game.

Toppy Vann wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:59 am

Shouldn't the HC announce who his QB is?

Watched some recorded video on Hervey on the Lions site and he's clearly lacking in:

a) interview skills
Or more likely,
b) leadership skills as he's all about cliches none of which paint a coherent picture or suggest he has any vision here.

The bizarre nature of this is that Wally has the direct connect to the owner irrespective of the GM.

The other thing is Wally wanted to hire this dude 5 years ago as assistant GM proves that Wally knows football but not how to select and develop leadership talent.

Who has Wally brought on successfully like Hufnagel did with Dave Dickenson and possibly Rick Campbell who propelled in some ways - Maas to a HC role

Wally's had two failures as HCs in recent years - Benevides and Chapdelaine.

Wally probably deserves some credit for shaping the career of both Hufnagel and Dickenson. Hufnagel was one of Wally's first hires in Calgary and was his OC for 7 years before leaving to be a HC and GM in the Arena League. Those 7 years would've really been his formative years in developing into the coach and administrator he later became. While Dickenson didn't serve as a coach under Buono no doubt there were many things learned playing for him for 8 years that have served him well in his coaching career. Huf may have brought Dickenson on successfully but Wally brought Huf on prior to that.

WestCoastJoe wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:06 pm

Business as usual.

No. It's a bold move. New GM. New structure. Likely changes in coaching, management, and personnel to come.

I don't see Hervey as being anyone's patsy.

The one clear message I get from this media exhibition is that Wally views himself as many things. Being Hervey's mentor and conduit to Braley now would seem to be of prime importance.

If Wally needs to build trust between Hervey and Braley over a medium or long term in the same fashion that Ackles did, it's pretty clear at this juncture that Braley will cease to be owner of the Lions when his (or the team's) death certificate is issued.

Whether or not you like, dislike or are ambivalent to this development, at least there is more certainty surrounding the team. Personally I appreciate that.

But I do very much agree with the point BC Fan made in regards to Hervey's temperment and how the market in Edmonton would be more likely to forgive his shortcomings as an ambassador of the brand.

The market in the Lower Mainland needs to be massaged and cuddled, not beaten over the head with a helmet.

maxlion wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:20 pm

WestCoastJoe wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:06 pm

Business as usual.

No. It's a bold move. New GM. New structure. Likely changes in coaching, management, and personnel to come.

I don't see Hervey as being anyone's patsy.

Bold move or window dressing? It is bold, in a sense. Bizarrely bold. LOL Effective? Not convinced.

It reminds me of Wally's in-game decisions. Conservative. Conservative. Punt inside the 40. And then he goes all-in on some head shaker, aggressive call.

I do not see it so much as bold, but as window dressing. Yes, business as usual. Same philosophy. Same offence. Same defence. Same special teams. Probably largely the same staff. Business as usual. At least for 2018. Sorry.

Ed Hervey is the GM. And, on staff, to help with the management are his boss, the vice president, Wally, his subordinate, the Head Coach, Wally, and Neil and Geroy. Hervey has said he will rely on Wally somewhat as a mentor. That does not sound like radical change. Hervey has said he did not seek full control. At this time ...

We know Hervey can make dramatic moves. He might not get the chance here. If the owner sells, Hervey could be swept out with the rest. If and when Braley sells, then we see real change. I suppose even in 2019, if Braley is still the owner, LOL, then Hervey can begin building his own team.

Last word to you, max. No arguments from WestCoastJoe. We see it differently. I won't go round and round on it.

Just IMO ...

CardiacKid wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:28 am

Here's a spitball if ever there was one....

The league has agreed to loan the Waterboys $5 million to make their $15 million pitch a $20 million offer.

Braley accepted and is in fact selling the team.....

That's hilarious that you think the league has $5 million sitting around to loan people.

Surprise hiring. Didn't see this one coming. Anybody know how long Hervey is signed for ?

CardiacKid wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:41 pm

Whether or not you like, dislike or are ambivalent to this development, at least there is more certainty surrounding the team. Personally I appreciate that.

But I do very much agree with the point BC Fan made in regards to Hervey's temperment and how the market in Edmonton would be more likely to forgive his shortcomings as an ambassador of the brand.

The market in the Lower Mainland needs to be massaged and cuddled, not beaten over the head with a helmet.

I took a peek into Eskfans for some reaction to Hervey in orange. Somebody posted the picture of Ed with his orange tie and Lions' scarf. One poster responded that it looked just wrong, just like Geroy in green. The almost unanimous consensus was that while happy for Hervey to get a new gig they are still pissed that he isn't still the GM in Edmonton. Half the posts were shots at Len Rhodes for firing Hervey back in the spring.

TheLionKing wrote: ↑

Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:04 pm

Surprise hiring. Didn't see this one coming. Anybody know how long Hervey is signed for ?

I would guess minimum 3 years, probably 4, which is standard term for a new GM hire.

Not running out to renew my tickets. Need to see more changes/

Here's Hervey's very first test:

If 'the first thing we need to do is better at protecting the QB', then how he chooses to address this will tell you all you need to know about the arrangement, depending on whether the issue is addressed through personnel, coaching or both.

Speaking of coaching, we'll see who Hervey thinks is Wally's successor, particularly if outside staff are brought in in the offseason. I'm guessing Washington is still perceived to be the guy.

Overall, I'm not a fan. The problem here sits largely in two areas; coaching and defensive line talent. I have faith that Hervey can address the latter (as maxlion implies), I guess we'll see if he can address the former. Perhaps Wally's thought is 'I want to (have to) stick around, but I need a strong enough personality to control my inclination to interfere in coaching decisions, and Hervey is the only strong enough personality to prevent that'.

As to the three roles, I assume Wally will slide upstairs to the VP/Emeritus role, Hervey will stay in his role to be a stronger buffer between Wally the VP and whomever the coach is (which was a problem under Benevides and Tedford) and Hervey will hire a coach, and that will be his hire.

If I were a casual fan, though, nothing that happened today was going to convince me to crack open my wallet.

So, Wally is going to follow the direction of Ed. when it comes to drafting, trades, coaches and so on? I have one thing to say about that "Yeah right". I'm not a big fan of Hervey, mostly his attitude towards press and fans but I truly fail to understand why he would take this position. There are huge upheavals in the offing for this team. It seems at most a move to take some of the bureaucracy of Wally's plate but if I understand this, Wally is going to be his boss and subordinate at the same time? No that isn't unwieldy at all. Well, I guess it is change. We were asking for it but this seems more like window dressing than anything substantive. In the words of Cuba Gooding Jr. , I'll believe this is a good move when they "Show me the money".