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Take a few college kids with a few wrecks and abandon them on a certain locations. ie., Massey tunnel, Alex Frasier, Iron Workers Memorial...Etc, and you'll see what a lousy infrastructure Vancouver has.
If you have to cut down 10 trees, studies must be done. You live in a city. Get used to less trees or move. But let progress proceed.
When does training camp begin?

TheLionKing wrote:Most of the people who causes accidents are driving with summer tires

This is one of the worst... summer, or even all-season. Frankly, I've never been offered a "summer" tire when I've gone for new ones, it must be something you have to ask for specifically... why on earth would anyone do that? Anyway, "all-seasons" aren't much better (they're really three-season tires), especially once the nice light powdery snow warms up and turns into hard pack and ice and slush.

or undue care given the weather conditions.

Pet peeve: "undue care" is the exact opposite of what you're getting at. What that phrase says, is that one is using MORE care than is due the conditions. The correct term here is "without due care".

Soundy wrote:

TheLionKing wrote:Most of the people who causes accidents are driving with summer tires

This is one of the worst... summer, or even all-season. Frankly, I've never been offered a "summer" tire when I've gone for new ones, it must be something you have to ask for specifically... why on earth would anyone do that? Anyway, "all-seasons" aren't much better (they're really three-season tires), especially once the nice light powdery snow warms up and turns into hard pack and ice and slush.

or undue care given the weather conditions.

Pet peeve: "undue care" is the exact opposite of what you're getting at. What that phrase says, is that one is using MORE care than is due the conditions. The correct term here is "without due care".

I beg to differ with your generalized opinion of "all season". In winnipeg, we were advised by many in the business to put top of the line michelin all season tires on our car and it worked quite well for nine long snow filled manitoba winters. As I said elsewhere, no one not driving a 4x4 did any better and most not as well.

KnowItAll wrote:I beg to differ with your generalized opinion of "all season". In winnipeg, we were advised by many in the business to put top of the line michelin all season tires on our car and it worked quite well for nine long snow filled manitoba winters. As I said elsewhere, no one not driving a 4x4 did any better and most not as well.

I'll rephrase a bit: All-season tires are nowhere near as good as proper winter/snow tires in the snow and ice. They're not NECESSARILY awful - the Goodyear Wrangler SR-As that came on our Jeep actually handled the snow pretty nicely - but snow tires are always better. Plus, "all-season" is a pretty broad term and there seems to be a pretty wide variation in how different "all-season" tires handle the snow.

My co-worker put new SNOW tires on his AWD Previa work van and tried to go cut donuts in a snowy parking lot... couldn't do it. He couldn't get the van to slide more than a couple inches for ANYTHING.

Soundy wrote:

KnowItAll wrote:I beg to differ with your generalized opinion of "all season". In winnipeg, we were advised by many in the business to put top of the line michelin all season tires on our car and it worked quite well for nine long snow filled manitoba winters. As I said elsewhere, no one not driving a 4x4 did any better and most not as well.

I'll rephrase a bit: All-season tires are nowhere near as good as proper winter/snow tires in the snow and ice. They're not NECESSARILY awful - the Goodyear Wrangler SR-As that came on our Jeep actually handled the snow pretty nicely - but snow tires are always better. Plus, "all-season" is a pretty broad term and there seems to be a pretty wide variation in how different "all-season" tires handle the snow.

My co-worker put new SNOW tires on his AWD Previa work van and tried to go cut donuts in a snowy parking lot... couldn't do it. He couldn't get the van to slide more than a couple inches for ANYTHING.

I thought you needed RWD for donuts, and FWD lets you do reverse donuts, AWD/4WD no fun?

Nothng worse in snow that a RWD pickup.

I got some pretty good donuts going in the Jeep with the 4WD LOCK turned on (it's active 4WD, normally front-biased) and the "ESP" stability control turned off. Once the back end is sliding, it's pretty easy to keep it going

Seems the tire companies are now suggesting a winter tire as opposed to all season due to performance at colder temps. I guess it has to do with the compounds.

switched to all-weathers on car and SUV...much better

ziggy wrote:Seems the tire companies are now suggesting a winter tire as opposed to all season due to performance at colder temps. I guess it has to do with the compounds.

The rubber used in all-season and summer tires actually gets harder below about 5-7 degrees... hard rubber doesn't adhere to things, especially when it can't flex to follow the road (witness your average hockey puck). Winter tires are composed of a softer rubber that remains flexible and maintains friction better at lower temperatures, as well as having wider grooves with different edge designs that grip into the snow and can then release it, rather than just having it pack into the grooves and stay there, further reducing traction.

The reason you don't leave them on all year is that they wear out ridiculously fast once it warms up (that, plus the larger groove pattern doesn't handle water as well as a summer/all-season tire).

Continuing the topic that KIA and SP mentioned, whether Vancouver drivers are really bad remains to be seen but the latest traffic poll is certainly not encouraging news. With more traffic will come impatience, frustration, and road rage.

Vancouver is the worst city in Canada for traffic congestion and the second worst in North America.

The full list:

1. Los Angeles
2. Vancouver
3. Miami
4. Seattle
5. Tampa
6. San Francisco
7. Washington DC
8. Houston
9. Toronto
10. Ottawa
11. Atlanta
12. Montreal
13. San Diego
14. Chicago
15. New York
16. Calgary
17. Philadelphia
18. Dallas-Fort Worth
19. Boston
20. Baltimore
21. Riverside
22. Phoenix
23. Edmonton
24. St. Louis
25. Detroit
26. Minneapolis

we had 50+ yrs to avoid this situation. Its not like we didnt know it could happen. Thats what pisses me off the most.