Lions' receivers

[David]

It's really an embarrasment of riches. Kudos to management for identifying these Nationals (in the draft and elsewhere....the FA signing of McInnis from the Riders was brilliant) and to the coaches for nurturing/seasoning them.

We could potentially go American at LG at some point. Have to see the strides Knevel has taken.


DH

[don corleone]

Messed this up but please bear with me as I don't think I can redo it.

Since before free agency DC you seem fixated on unnecessarily adding some other veteran receiver.[/i]

Godwin? One has to ask why Hamilton cut him at the start of camp. They gave him a $5K signing bonus and he was set to make $93.2K hard money in 2024 so hardly a cap move. It's not like they are loaded at receiver. He was their starting boundary WR last year. They were hoping Justin McGriff would take that role. They were very high on him last year but he shattered a leg. He just suffered a torn ACL a couple days ago and was just released. Unless Godwin failed his medical maybe they circle back.

They could easily backfill an injury to Cottoy or McInnis with an American without hurting themselves at another position. We'll see how that plays out. There will surely be some veteran NAT receivers looking for a new team after final cuts.

Since before free agency DC you seem fixated on unnecessarily adding some other veteran receiver.

Correct, although I feel the "unnecessarily" is the debatable point. I have also said the coach needs to have the authority to field the team he wants to field. We can only watch to see how it plays out.

If they had concerns about them then they shouldn't have let Lucky and Rhymes go.

Now if I were President, I would have brought Lucky back on a one year deal. It wouldn't have been big bucks compared to Hollins and Hatcher and he is not the one with the torn achilles. I'm being controversial but perhaps signing Hatcher may have been a bit sentimental and hopeful when at the time he could have been gone for the year. I like Hatcher but doubt anyone else would have signed him under the present situation.

Familiarity with the system and QB as well as lining up against different defenders and playing new fields knowing what to expect helps the entire system and is why I think 3 newcomers is unlikely to lead to the recipe for success. Again it is Rick Campbells team and he knows best what he wants.

Godwin? One has to ask why Hamilton cut him at the start of camp. They gave him a $5K signing bonus and he was set to make $93.2K hard money in 2024 so hardly a cap move. It's not like they are loaded at receiver. He was their starting boundary WR last year. Unless Godwin failed his medical maybe they circle back.

I think Godwin wanted to re-neg after he heard how much Hollins got. They are similar players.

They could easily backfill an injury to Cottoy or McInnis with an American without hurting themselves at another position. We'll see how that plays out.

I don't see Terry Williams filling in for Cottoy.

There will surely be some veteran NAT receivers looking for a new team after final cuts.

Scrap heaping you say? One thing about the old boys club that is the CFL is if I don't pick up your castoffs and you don't pick up mine they can't come back to haunt us.

[don corleone]

I like Terry Williams and he does deserve a shot to play. He brings both speed and versatility to the lineup. I'm sure he will run good routes. Also takes a pounding as a returner. It's not a good plan to have him do both jobs on a regular basis imo. Maybe Mizzell?

Also haven't seen enough yet to alleviate concerns regarding receiver depth given Williams is starting and wonder if Steven Dunbar might be interested in the situation on a one year deal. Haven't heard much since he was released by Edmonton. He would be everything Dom Rhymes was imo.

[Hambone]

Messed this up but please bear with me as I don't think I can redo it.

You didn't mess up the reply. Looks easy to follow. I might mess up my own reply however. Lol.

Since before free agency DC you seem fixated on unnecessarily adding some other veteran receiver.

Correct, although I feel the "unnecessarily" is the debatable point. I have also said the coach needs to have the authority to field the team he wants to field. We can only watch to see how it plays out.

Rick Campbell is the coach and is also the Co-GM. He has all the authority he needs to field the team he wants to field working in tandem with McEvoy who provides a lot of capology input while also handling the bulk of contract negotiations.

Now if I were President, I would have brought Lucky back on a one year deal. It wouldn't have been big bucks compared to Hollins and Hatcher and he is not the one with the torn achilles. I'm being controversial but perhaps signing Hatcher may have been a bit sentimental and hopeful when at the time he could have been gone for the year. I like Hatcher but doubt anyone else would have signed him under the present situation.

Familiarity with the system and QB as well as lining up against different defenders and playing new fields knowing what to expect helps the entire system and is why I think 3 newcomers is unlikely to lead to the recipe for success. Again it is Rick Campbells team and he knows best what he wants.

At times teams simply have to move on for a variety of reasons; age, and SMS usually being most impactful. Also there gets to be a point where they need to clear roster spots to make room for younger, cheaper talent who are being held back due to older vets filling the roster. As I mentioned before I see Eberhardt is being in the same situation in 2023 as Hollins was in 2022 and Hatcher in 2021; good enough to be on the game day roster but unable to due to veterans in front of them.

Familiarity with the system and QB shouldn't be a factor. McInnis is taking over Rhymes old role. He started in that spot 8 times last year. Eberhardt has been with the team since Day 1 of 2023 training camp. He picked up 2 starts in place of Whitehead last year while spending his time on the PR preparing to be next man up starting field or boundary WR in Maksymic's offense. The only projected starting 5 receiver who is unfamiliar with the system and QB before coming to training camp is Travis Fulgham. From watching how seamlessly he's fit into Keon Hatcher's spot one wouldn't know he was unfamiliar with the BC scheme and 3 down football in general.

Godwin? One has to ask why Hamilton cut him at the start of camp. They gave him a $5K signing bonus and he was set to make $93.2K hard money in 2024 so hardly a cap move. It's not like they are loaded at receiver. He was their starting boundary WR last year. Unless Godwin failed his medical maybe they circle back.

I think Godwin wanted to re-neg after he heard how much Hollins got. They are similar players.

Hollins signed in mid January. Godwin re-signed with Hamilton 4 weeks later and was one of the last of this year's FA class to get a deal either with his old team or a new one. There are not a lot of secrets out there between players and agents when it comes to salaries meaning he and his agent would already have a very good idea what Hollins and many of the others signed for. He and his agent didn't agree to terms being oblivious to where the market was for the rest. If they did then he needs a new agent. You frequently condemn GMs for cutting or wanting to re-negotiate a year after agreeing to a deal yet seem OK if Godwin came back to the Ticats wanting to re-negotiate only 3 months after he just negotiated a new extension. It will never end well for a player to come running back to the GM wanting to redo his contract before the ink has dried on the one he just signed.

They could easily backfill an injury to Cottoy or McInnis with an American without hurting themselves at another position. We'll see how that plays out.

I don't see Terry Williams filling in for Cottoy.

Nor do I. When I'm talking about backfilling I'm talking about to get the team through the rest of the game due to an injury. Harty or Tieide, if Harty's situation drags on, will be on the game roster with Williams acting as the 7th receiver. Should any starter go down mid-game there would be a shuffle that will depend on which specific receiver goes down. I wouldn't expect Williams to take over a slot position but would slide into one of the outside spots while Hollins or Eberhardt moved into the slot. They would reset the lineup for the next game if necessary by promoting someone from the PR leaving Williams to return to his KR/in-game depth role.

One irony I come across is that in the post prior to mine you're responding too you said "One thing is it takes a good player to even make a pro camp. At times players need opportunity more than they need to improve skills. Improvement comes from playing." I 100% agree with that but also believe sometimes teams have to provide opportunity for younger players already in the locker room by allowing a veteran or two to move on. If they don't they wind up blocking the development of those players and stand to see them go elsewhere. After 2021 BC let Lamar Durant and Shaq Johnson move on which helped open a full-time starting spot for Keon Hatcher in 2022. After 2022 Bryan Burnham retired which helped open up a full-time starting spot for Alex Hollins. After 2023 BC let Whitehead and Rhymes move on which allowed McInnis to advance from a depth role into full-time starter while also allowing Eberhardt to also take a full-time starting spot. Signing somebody like Godwin or others mentioned would only serve to knock Eberhardt back into a PR spot for the second season after he's done everything he possibly can to earn a regular spot on the 2024 roster.

[don corleone]

Messed this up but please bear with me as I don't think I can redo it.

You didn't mess up the reply. Looks easy to follow. I might mess up my own reply however. Lol.

Since before free agency DC you seem fixated on unnecessarily adding some other veteran receiver.

Correct, although I feel the "unnecessarily" is the debatable point. I have also said the coach needs to have the authority to field the team he wants to field. We can only watch to see how it plays out.

Rick Campbell is the coach and is also the Co-GM. He has all the authority he needs to field the team he wants to field working in tandem with McEvoy who provides a lot of capology input while also handling the bulk of contract negotiations.

Now if I were President, I would have brought Lucky back on a one year deal. It wouldn't have been big bucks compared to Hollins and Hatcher and he is not the one with the torn achilles. I'm being controversial but perhaps signing Hatcher may have been a bit sentimental and hopeful when at the time he could have been gone for the year. I like Hatcher but doubt anyone else would have signed him under the present situation.

Familiarity with the system and QB as well as lining up against different defenders and playing new fields knowing what to expect helps the entire system and is why I think 3 newcomers is unlikely to lead to the recipe for success. Again it is Rick Campbells team and he knows best what he wants.

At times teams simply have to move on for a variety of reasons; age, and SMS usually being most impactful. Also there gets to be a point where they need to clear roster spots to make room for younger, cheaper talent who are being held back due to older vets filling the roster. As I mentioned before I see Eberhardt is being in the same situation in 2023 as Hollins was in 2022 and Hatcher in 2021; good enough to be on the game day roster but unable to due to veterans in front of them.

Familiarity with the system and QB shouldn't be a factor. McInnis is taking over Rhymes old role. He started in that spot 8 times last year. Eberhardt has been with the team since Day 1 of 2023 training camp. He picked up 2 starts in place of Whitehead last year while spending his time on the PR preparing to be next man up starting field or boundary WR in Maksymic's offense. The only projected starting 5 receiver who is unfamiliar with the system and QB before coming to training camp is Travis Fulgham. From watching how seamlessly he's fit into Keon Hatcher's spot one wouldn't know he was unfamiliar with the BC scheme and 3 down football in general.

Godwin? One has to ask why Hamilton cut him at the start of camp. They gave him a $5K signing bonus and he was set to make $93.2K hard money in 2024 so hardly a cap move. It's not like they are loaded at receiver. He was their starting boundary WR last year. Unless Godwin failed his medical maybe they circle back.

I think Godwin wanted to re-neg after he heard how much Hollins got. They are similar players.

Hollins signed in mid January. Godwin re-signed with Hamilton 4 weeks later and was one of the last of this year's FA class to get a deal either with his old team or a new one. There are not a lot of secrets out there between players and agents when it comes to salaries meaning he and his agent would already have a very good idea what Hollins and many of the others signed for. He and his agent didn't agree to terms being oblivious to where the market was for the rest. If they did then he needs a new agent. You frequently condemn GMs for cutting or wanting to re-negotiate a year after agreeing to a deal yet seem OK if Godwin came back to the Ticats wanting to re-negotiate only 3 months after he just negotiated a new extension. It will never end well for a player to come running back to the GM wanting to redo his contract before the ink has dried on the one he just signed.

They could easily backfill an injury to Cottoy or McInnis with an American without hurting themselves at another position. We'll see how that plays out.

I don't see Terry Williams filling in for Cottoy.

Nor do I. When I'm talking about backfilling I'm talking about to get the team through the rest of the game due to an injury. Harty or Tieide, if Harty's situation drags on, will be on the game roster with Williams acting as the 7th receiver. Should any starter go down mid-game there would be a shuffle that will depend on which specific receiver goes down. I wouldn't expect Williams to take over a slot position but would slide into one of the outside spots while Hollins or Eberhardt moved into the slot. They would reset the lineup for the next game if necessary by promoting someone from the PR leaving Williams to return to his KR/in-game depth role.

One irony I come across is that in the post prior to mine you're responding too you said "One thing is it takes a good player to even make a pro camp. At times players need opportunity more than they need to improve skills. Improvement comes from playing." I 100% agree with that but also believe sometimes teams have to provide opportunity for younger players already in the locker room by allowing a veteran or two to move on. If they don't they wind up blocking the development of those players and stand to see them go elsewhere. After 2021 BC let Lamar Durant and Shaq Johnson move on which helped open a full-time starting spot for Keon Hatcher in 2022. After 2022 Bryan Burnham retired which helped open up a full-time starting spot for Alex Hollins. After 2023 BC let Whitehead and Rhymes move on which allowed McInnis to advance from a depth role into full-time starter while also allowing Eberhardt to also take a full-time starting spot. Signing somebody like Godwin or others mentioned would only serve to knock Eberhardt back into a PR spot for the second season after he's done everything he possibly can to earn a regular spot on the 2024 roster.

Good post. Sound logic. For the sake of the Lions I hope you are right.

[don corleone]

Rick Campbell is the coach and is also the Co-GM. He has all the authority he needs to field the team he wants to field working in tandem with McEvoy who provides a lot of capology input while also handling the bulk of contract negotiatireqons.

Campbell has been a somewhat controversial coach regarding player personnel. It's quite a list of players that he will not coach including a few fan favorites.

When a person has the authority they should also bear the responsibility. I say the pressure is on to do well or at least should be.

[Hambone]

Good post. Sound logic. For the sake of the Lions I hope you are right.

Lol. Me too, me too.

[Hambone]

Rick Campbell is the coach and is also the Co-GM. He has all the authority he needs to field the team he wants to field working in tandem with McEvoy who provides a lot of capology input while also handling the bulk of contract negotiatireqons.

Campbell has been a somewhat controversial coach regarding player personnel. It's quite a list of players that he will not coach including a few fan favorites.

When a person has the authority they should also bear the responsibility. I say the pressure is on to do well or at least should be.

First I've heard of that. Could you provide said list please?

[don corleone]

First I've heard of that. Could you provide said list please?

Your baiting me into trouble. I can think of 5 or 6 off the top.

Alphabetical or chronological would be best but safe to say the one player Rick Campbell had the least interest in coaching and All Praise be his Name for that was DC89. So much so that it was a condition of his employment (unofficially of course) that Carter be sent packing prior to Campbell joining the Lions. How's that for giving a guy a chance to earn a living?

Lou Purifoy is not far behind and was kicked down the road twice by Campbell. Very likely would not be in the league if not for Chris Jones. Still an All Star and leader for the Elks.

Shawn Lemon, A.C. Leonard, Lucky, Dom Rhymes, Ryan Lankford twice over a dropped punt, Julian Feoli-Guidino are a few others.

Not saying in the slightest R.C. is not a knowledgeable football man or have good qualities that will lead his organization to victory. Am saying he has a history of a temper and he hasn't won anything in a long time.

For me, moving on is best done on a level playing field with really no exceptions. Not bringing a player to camp is a good way to not be second guessed. CFL pushes too many good players out of the league to soon too often for reasons beyond their playing ability.

All that said there is 18 games yet to be played so I'll put down the pitch fork for now but continue to watch closely. Concern expressed best reflects my current position. Do like Berryhill as a returner.

[DanoT]

Yeah, I thought moving on from Carter after the chest bump (non friendly type) when Campbell was HC in Ottawa was a mistake. Giving Carter a second chance, so to speak, would have sent a message to players that you can F up and still have an opportunity to redeem yourself on the field.
Lucky didn't have a great season last year but I thought an opportunity to at least show in TC that he still had it would have been a good look, especially for a fan favourite. OTOH no other team has shown interest.
Rhymes is a puzzler as didn't Campbell also have Rhymes as a player in Ottawa? Perhaps it was a contract issue.
Was/is Shawn Lemon more of a "me first" guy and not always a team guy...just asking as I am not sure about him but he seems to have moved around and played for more teams than I would have expected...8 different teams in a 9 team league for a future HoFer is a head scratcher to me.

[maxlion]

Those aren’t examples of refusing to coach someone. They are examples of player personnel decisions being made for various reasons, which no doubt include both performance on the field and and less tangible things like leadership, teamwork, etc..

Every team cuts players, and all coaches have input into who gets cut. Nothing different here except perhaps that RC is an experienced coach (and now co-Gm) so would have more say than some other coaches.

[maxlion]

Also, Carter was a non-factor for the Lions on the field and deserved to get cut long before he was actually released.

[David]

Lucky certainly played around the edges of "team guy" vs "me guy." I get his eccentric personality and being good with the fans, but can see how an old-school coach might eschew all the 'unique entrance' schtick and excessive hot-dogging. The cryptic posts on "X" about his future with the club - in season to boot (since deleted) - might have been a massive distraction in a bigger football market.


DH

[Hambone]

Lucky didn't have a great season last year but I thought an opportunity to at least show in TC that he still had it would have been a good look, especially for a fan favourite. OTOH no other team has shown interest.
Rhymes is a puzzler as didn't Campbell also have Rhymes as a player in Ottawa? Perhaps it was a contract issue.
Was/is Shawn Lemon more of a "me first" guy and not always a team guy...just asking as I am not sure about him but he seems to have moved around and played for more teams than I would have expected...8 different teams in a 9 team league for a future HoFer is a head scratcher to me.

I don't give in to the "bring them to TC for a look or to prove themselves" theory that Rider fans live by. If they had their way 3/4 of the Rider camp roster would be veterans of either the Riders or other teams brought in to show if they still have it. I'm a believer that if you're bringing even a fan favourite like Lucky back you're doing it because you already have him pencilled in to a roster spot. Maybe bringing a fan fave in for camp is a good look for some fans.........but only if he makes the team. I think it's a much harder on the fans to see that favourite come to camp only to be unceremoniously dumped in last cuts than it is to let him slide away in free agency 3 months earlier.

There was a bit of a contract issue last year when Rhymes threatened to hold out or demanded a trade if his deal wasn't redone. This year it was a combination of needing to clear cap space to help them retain Hollins, Cottoy and Hatcher. His permanent residence and lady are in Ottawa so it's possible he asked for a trade or failing that to be released so he could sign there.

Lemon is an enigma. Not only has he been property of 8 teams in a 9 team league but this is his 14th CFL stop since 2011 when he first arrived spending a week on Winnipeg's PR. Along the way he also had cups of coffee with 3 different Arena teams and 2 NFL clubs. Montreal last year marked his 19th pro stop in 13 years. As Arsenio Hall used to say "something that makes you go hmmmm". Campbell brought him in twice; once in Ottawa in 2015 when he returned to the CFL after failed NFL attempts in Pittsburgh and SF. He was released shortly after the season to again pursue NFL opportunities. Then Campbell brought him in again last year but released him when they signed Kongbo.

[Toppy Vann]

Lucky didn't have a great season last year but I thought an opportunity to at least show in TC that he still had it would have been a good look, especially for a fan favourite. OTOH no other team has shown interest.
Rhymes is a puzzler as didn't Campbell also have Rhymes as a player in Ottawa? Perhaps it was a contract issue.
Was/is Shawn Lemon more of a "me first" guy and not always a team guy...just asking as I am not sure about him but he seems to have moved around and played for more teams than I would have expected...8 different teams in a 9 team league for a future HoFer is a head scratcher to me.

I don't give in to the "bring them to TC for a look or to prove themselves" theory that Rider fans live by. If they had their way 3/4 of the Rider camp roster would be veterans of either the Riders or other teams brought in to show if they still have it. I'm a believer that if you're bringing even a fan favourite like Lucky back you're doing it because you already have him pencilled in to a roster spot. Maybe bringing a fan fave in for camp is a good look for some fans.........but only if he makes the team. I think it's a much harder on the fans to see that favourite come to camp only to be unceremoniously dumped in last cuts than it is to let him slide away in free agency 3 months earlier.

There was a bit of a contract issue last year when Rhymes threatened to hold out or demanded a trade if his deal wasn't redone. This year it was a combination of needing to clear cap space to help them retain Hollins, Cottoy and Hatcher. His permanent residence and lady are in Ottawa so it's possible he asked for a trade or failing that to be released so he could sign there.

Lemon is an enigma. Not only has he been property of 8 teams in a 9 team league but this is his 14th CFL stop since 2011 when he first arrived spending a week on Winnipeg's PR. Along the way he also had cups of coffee with 3 different Arena teams and 2 NFL clubs. Montreal last year marked his 19th pro stop in 13 years. As Arsenio Hall used to say "something that makes you go hmmmm". Campbell brought him in twice; once in Ottawa in 2015 when he returned to the CFL after failed NFL attempts in Pittsburgh and SF. He was released shortly after the season to again pursue NFL opportunities. Then Campbell brought him in again last year but released him when they signed Kongbo.

I don't see Rick Campbell as a GM or HC different from any HC in choosing players. I think Duron Carter was not back due to lower production, age and others weren't knocking the door down. In part, I' blamed the poor design of the Jarius Jackson layered passing offense for lower production.

If you're an ethical GM and HC you'll not bring back vets if they're not really in your plans. Most I know including Dave Cutler who got cut at TC were pissed off at their team as they'd sooner not come to TC if you aren't really interested in them. Also, if you bring them in they take reps from others in TC or they get pissed if not getting reps and it can be divisive.

Lemon it seems has seemingly done when an old friend/colleague Lyall Woznesensky - chased a starting role and more money where others I knew/worked with like Glen Jackson and Lui P both wanted to be in Vancouver - not moving around.

Also, Lemon has been a guy that some might have thought each year, there was someone better or cheaper at the same level and at his age, bringing him back is a risk. What he did last season was unique, ever in the CFL it seems. He comes in, helps Darnell Sankey to join then and both leads and was ready to play instantly. Even his DC said most players will say they're ready but aren't but Lemon was.