CFL Expansion

[don corleone]

There has been a lot of talk about a 10th franchise.

Other than a good centrally located city along the lines of Thunder Bay, the one city that stands out as a top candidate for expansion and has for a number of years is Saskatoon. There is really no good argument against it.

Distance wise it is roughly the same as Calgary to Edmonton. Population wise it is about the same or slightly bigger than Regina. The economy is on fire led by the uranium industry. They have a facility that can be upgraded in short order. Potential enthusiastic fan base that can build on the success of the U of S Huskies football team.

Travel expenses are often one of the main reasons people give up season tickets. A franchise in Saskatoon would save a lot of money for the teams as well by not having to fly to Halifax.

Understood that the Riders will think it is not a good idea. Edmonton might agree.

Rumour is Quebec City is being considered. It's not eggs for lunch crazy that the league could get to 12 teams in the next few years.

[Hambone]

There has been a lot of talk about a 10th franchise.

Other than a good centrally located city along the lines of Thunder Bay, the one city that stands out as a top candidate for expansion and has for a number of years is Saskatoon. There is really no good argument against it.

Distance wise it is roughly the same as Calgary to Edmonton. Population wise it is about the same or slightly bigger than Regina. The economy is on fire led by the uranium industry. They have a facility that can be upgraded in short order. Potential enthusiastic fan base that can build on the success of the U of S Huskies football team.

Travel expenses are often one of the main reasons people give up season tickets. A franchise in Saskatoon would save a lot of money for the teams as well by not having to fly to Halifax.

Understood that the Riders will think it is not a good idea. Edmonton might agree.

Rumour is Quebec City is being considered. It's not eggs for lunch crazy that the league could get to 12 teams in the next few years.

Huge differences. Calgary boasts a population bigger than the entire province of Saskatchewan while Edmonton is about 300K smaller. Add the bedroom communities of St. Albert, Spruce Grove, Leduc and Fort Saskatchewan and Edmonton has as many people as Saskatchewan. Saskatoon is slightly larger than Regina but both are about 1/4 the size of either of the Alberta cities while neither has other larger centres close by. Prince Albert 140km north of Saskatoon is Saskatchewan's 3rd biggest city at 38000. Swiift Current is 6th biggest at 16000. The Riders enjoy the full attention and allegiance of the entire province. A team in Saskatoon would only serve to split that allegiance.

Just as BC has ST holders on the island, Okanagan, Kamloops and farther afield the Riders have ST holders in just about every corner of the province and beyond. Sure the bulk are in Regina but a Saskatoon team would cost them several hundred, if not a thousand or two, ST holders not to mention the more casual single game buyers who make a point of travelling in for 1 to 3 or 4 games a year.

Then there's the merch sales in a market the Riders have a strangle hold on. Just as ticket sales would funnel north to Toontown so too would a significant chunk of the Rider merch sales. The Riders operate a retail outlet in Saskatoon that would likely be no longer viable with a new team there. A team in Saskatoon would likely cost the Riders sponsorship revenues as well.

There is no doubt a Saskatoon team would cost the Riders a ton of revenue; $10 million would not be surprising. Instead of one rock solid team in Regina you'd have 2 teams struggling to survive while competing with each other for the same finite revenue base.

Quebec is often bandied about. Nobody though seems to know for sure if they are a football mad city or just love their Rouge et Or. Speculation has been that University of Laval who own the only sizeable stadium in town don't have much interest in doing any favours to facilitate CFL football. True or not I don't know.

[don corleone]

There is no doubt a Saskatoon team would cost the Riders a ton of revenue;

That is the bottom line.

First off let me say that I applaud any fan that supports their team. Actual fans commuting three hours or more one way however are a dying breed. You my friend are a champion of the pack.

Numbers have to be down from peak times but 2500 would be a lot of people making the trip from Saskatoon perhaps with the exception of certain big games. I don't think the Riders can count on many more joining the group. One game costs more than the cable subscription for the year even though the experience is not the same.

A CFL game in Saskatoon could easily draw 15,000 so in essence you would be adding 10,000 to the overall gate of the gate driven league they keep telling us about. Merchandise sales would be the battleground.

For me living in a remote location I have been happy since they allowed single game betting to participate in that manner and that is the monetization that is most easily accessible in terms of revenue for the CFL imo. Of course we don't hear those numbers but my guess is they are significant with potential to grow. For the record I have won my last two Grey Cup bets.

I expect they will keep on with the Atlantic Canada idea but can also see that franchise struggling for support more easily than two teams in Sask. Just saying.

Nice sunny day here today. Good start to the year. Wishing all the best.

[Toppy Vann]

The Maritimes is a more expensive and less convenient travel destination for teams so I've always believed Quebec City would be a better option if Montreal didn't object as it might lower TV ratings for them. However, the new Als owner might just be the kind of successful entrepreneur who might find a way for that to be a win for them. Wishful thinking on my part as Quebec City is one of the best tourist locations in North America. Not sure why Laval U would be worried other than if it cut their fan base.

I always felt that Quebec would be a better option for the CFL before the Maritimes as I see the latter as a cherry on top of a 10 team league that's already filling the stands across the CFL.
It's filling the stands and building the CFL game in the minds of the public that is the key critical challenge for the CFL.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/u-sports-foot ... -1.6269474

Saskatoon for the reasons covered in depth seems less an option as the Riders franchise strength is it that it is not Regina Roughriders but Team Saskatchewan.

[Hambone]

Your last sentence is one more thing to ponder Toppy. If there was a Saskatoon team would the Riders continue to call themselves Saskatchewan Roughriders or revert back to being the Regina Roughriders?

[don corleone]

A team in Saskatoon might make the Riders think about putting a winning team on the field.

[Coast Mountain Lion]

A team in Saskatoon might make the Riders think about putting a winning team on the field.

You mean like the old line about how they can't put an NHL team in Hamilton because then Toronto would want one too?

[cromartie]

There is a zero percent chance Saskatoon could support a stand alone CFL team.

QC would be great for the league, and great for Montreal if they could overcome the objections from Laval. The Montreal rivalry potential is outstanding.

I'm still a believer in a coast to coast league, which to me means Halifax. The problem is the four plus decade search for someone rich enough and with enough political will to ram the concept through, sadly.

The first criteria for a sustainable CFL team is a regional population around 500k. This would also bring London into the conversation but I have no faith that there are enough CFL supporters in SW Ontario to pull a franchise off.

[Hambone]

There is a zero percent chance Saskatoon could support a stand alone CFL team.

QC would be great for the league, and great for Montreal if they could overcome the objections from Laval. The Montreal rivalry potential is outstanding.

I'm still a believer in a coast to coast league, which to me means Halifax. The problem is the four plus decade search for someone rich enough and with enough political will to ram the concept through, sadly.

The first criteria for a sustainable CFL team is a regional population around 500k. This would also bring London into the conversation but I have no faith that there are enough CFL supporters in SW Ontario to pull a franchise off.

Agreed.

Halifax is the most logical location for the combination of population base and the potential to be a regional team in a region that has no other pro sports team competing with it save for the CPL HFX Wanderers FC. Quebec City would be next most logical for similar reasons although it would lack the ability to be a true regional team. They would need the complete support and a lot of help from U of Laval otherwise would be faced with the same lack of stadium problem the Maritimes has endured.

I agree on London. Big enough for sure but would they market get the support needed what with all of the other easily accessible pro sports entities nearby. They are equidistant being 2 hours away from Toronto (Jays, Leafs, Raptors, Argos & TFC) and Detroit (Tigers, Wings, Pistons, Lions & Michigan Wolverines). Of course the farther outside the city limits one goes either east or west the attraction of those other options gets stronger and stronger. Windsor is the biggest city west of London with the sports focus being across the river in Detroit.

I think beyond Halifax/Maritimes and Quebec City there are no other locations that could support a CFL club unless the CFL business model changes to be more in the line with the CPL. They'd have to start by knocking at least 30% off the salary cap.

[B.C.FAN]

Halifax is the most logical location for the combination of population base and the potential to be a regional team in a region that has no other pro sports team competing with it save for the CPL HFX Wanderers FC. Quebec City would be next most logical for similar reasons although it would lack the ability to be a true regional team. They would need the complete support and a lot of help from U of Laval otherwise would be faced with the same lack of stadium problem the Maritimes has endured.

I agree on London. Big enough for sure but would they market get the support needed what with all of the other easily accessible pro sports entities nearby. They are equidistant being 2 hours away from Toronto (Jays, Leafs, Raptors, Argos & TFC) and Detroit (Tigers, Wings, Pistons, Lions & Michigan Wolverines). Of course the farther outside the city limits one goes either east or west the attraction of those other options gets stronger and stronger. Windsor is the biggest city west of London with the sports focus being across the river in Detroit.

I think beyond Halifax/Maritimes and Quebec City there are no other locations that could support a CFL club unless the CFL business model changes to be more in the line with the CPL. They'd have to start by knocking at least 30% off the salary cap.

Exactly. The Maritime provinces have a population of over 2 million within about a five-hour drive of Halifax. That's bigger than the regional markets for the Bombers and Riders. Add in another 500,000 people in Newfoundland, and you have a large, underserved population that can bolster CFL merchandise and broadcast markets.

Quebec City is the seventh largest Canadian metro area, with a population of over 800,000. That's larger than Winnipeg, Hamilton and Regina. The provincial population of nearly 9 million could benefit from another team and could create a natural rivalry with Montreal and bolster French-language marketing.

[Hambone]

The Maritimes is a more expensive and less convenient travel destination for teams so I've always believed Quebec City would be a better option if Montreal didn't object as it might lower TV ratings for them.

A Maritime team might make for more expensive and inconvenient travel but would it be that much more? In terms of travel the costs on the ground shouldn't be much different one city to the next although the costs of hotels in Vancouver could make it the most expensive road city for other teams to visit. It's just the air time and charter costs that would change. For instance the non-stop flying time from YVR to Halifax is only 50 minutes longer than YVR to Quebec City and 60 minutes longer than YVR to Montreal. As a 10th team would lead to a balanced schedule teams would only need to make that trip once per season with the exception of whomever drew the preseason trip. The biggest difference for BC would be that a 2nd road trip to play another West club for a 2nd time would be replaced by a trip to the East Coast.. Whether it's to Halifax or Quebec City will be minimal difference.

[Hambone]

Exactly. The Maritime provinces have a population of over 2 million within about a five-hour drive of Halifax. That's bigger than the regional markets for the Bombers and Riders. Add in another 500,000 people in Newfoundland, and you have a large, underserved population that can bolster CFL merchandise and broadcast markets.

Quebec City is the seventh largest Canadian metro area, with a population of over 800,000. That's larger than Winnipeg, Hamilton and Regina. The provincial population of nearly 9 million could benefit from another team and could create a natural rivalry with Montreal and bolster French-language marketing.

Yup. The Maritimes are an untapped market in just about every aspect. A team wouldn't infringe on nearby CFL markets.

The only thing I was ever concerned about is how well do people travel back there? People out west don't bat an eye at a 5 hour road trip. Do folks in a more condensed and more historically established region have that same willingness? I've found in my travels that while 5 hours is no big deal to western Canadians even 2 hours is a very big deal in other parts of the country and world.