Past BC Lions TRADES - Evaluate and Discuss - Good or Bad? (11 years later)

[Robbie]

Since we are in the off-season which will likely be extended, and since there's some recent other threads about history about Doug Flutie and the top 5 favourite Lions, then how about reviving this 13-year old thread which was last updated in 2009.

Since 2009, a lot has changed which includes BC Lions trades since 2009.

What do you think are some very good and very bad trades the BC Lions have made since 2009?

[KnowItAll]

I would like to respond to this but my mind aint so good these days. I cant seem to remember much in the way of trades this century, good, bad, or otherwise. I am sure however that nothing has been nearly as bad as trading away half of the best talent on the team for Dunigan.

[maxlion]

Fun question! Not really a lot of trades to work with. A few that spring to mind in approximate order of impact:

1. Mike Reilly for 2nd round pick. In hindsight, an unfortunate trade due to Lulay's subsequent series of injuries, but that couldn't have been known at the time. Verdict: Lions lose big time.

2. Arland Bruce for 3rd round pick. Helped changed the course of the season and bring the 2011 cup to BC. Short but impactful stay with BC. Verdict: great trade for Lions.

3. Vernon Adams for 1st round pick. VA has turned into a legit starter but at the time it seemed like we had a future starter in Jennings. In hindsight, VA might have been a better gamble. Verdict: Fair exchange all things considered.

4. Olafioye for Foucault. Foucault filled a gap for a few years but never really lived up to his promise. Olafioye seemed to have a lost a step and returned to BC after a year. Verdict: BC wins.

5. 1st rounder for Kevin Glenn. Glenn was a decent stop gap for Lulay, but a very frustrating year. Not many other options. Verdict: probably worth the pick but can't really call it a win.

[maxlion]

One I forgot about:

Jerome Messam for a 5 round pick. Messam had some dominant seasons but also changed teams a lot. There were reports of locker room issues. Verdict: hard to assess.

[johnchow604]

I would like to respond to this but my mind aint so good these days. I cant seem to remember much in the way of trades this century, good, bad, or otherwise. I am sure however that nothing has been nearly as bad as trading away half of the best talent on the team for Dunigan.

I don't get why
1) Reggie Taylor, a backup Lions running back, became so dominating in Edmonton.
2) Why the Lions got robbed trading for Dunnigan and yet when we trade him to Toronto, we seemingly got robbed again?

[KnowItAll]

I would like to respond to this but my mind aint so good these days. I cant seem to remember much in the way of trades this century, good, bad, or otherwise. I am sure however that nothing has been nearly as bad as trading away half of the best talent on the team for Dunigan.

I don't get why
1) Reggie Taylor, a backup Lions running back, became so dominating in Edmonton.
2) Why the Lions got robbed trading for Dunnigan and yet when we trade him to Toronto, we seemingly got robbed again?

Not sure what your point is about RT except that it supports my opinion.

Lions gave away to much for Dunigan and didn't get back nearly the same. Thus, wrong end of the deal both times

[johnchow604]

I would like to respond to this but my mind aint so good these days. I cant seem to remember much in the way of trades this century, good, bad, or otherwise. I am sure however that nothing has been nearly as bad as trading away half of the best talent on the team for Dunigan.

I don't get why
1) Reggie Taylor, a backup Lions running back, became so dominating in Edmonton.
2) Why the Lions got robbed trading for Dunnigan and yet when we trade him to Toronto, we seemingly got robbed again?

Not sure what your point is about RT except that it supports my opinion.

Lions gave away to much for Dunigan and didn't get back nearly the same. Thus, wrong end of the deal both times

I agree with your post. What made the deal sting the most for me was how good Reggie Taylor became .

[Robbie]

I don't get why
1) Reggie Taylor, a backup Lions running back, became so dominating in Edmonton.

It's because in the 1988 season, there were only two starting running backs and both Anthony Parker and Tony Cherry were fairly well established with their starting roles, so Reggie Taylor became expendable.

2) Why the Lions got robbed trading for Dunnigan and yet when we trade him to Toronto, we seemingly got robbed again?

Because neither Joe Galat and Joe Kapp are good general managers.

Edmonton got six great long-term players from the Lions for Dunigan.

Whereas when the Lions sent Dunigan to the Argonauts, none of the six players they received became a great long-term player:

Quarterback Rick Johnson
Linebacker Willie Pless
Defensive tackle Jearld Baylis
Linebacker Tony Visco
Slotback Emmanuel Tolbert
Safety Todd Wiseman

Five of these six players retired shortly afterwards, while Willie Pless became a long-term all-star....but for the Eskimos.

I posted this link before and I'll post it again. This is an old TSN article from March 1990 about the Dunigan trade to the Argonauts by the Lions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CanyFNmJECI

Trying to be as fair as possible......did the Argonauts receive a lot with Dunigan in his two years with him in 1990? True, he won the 1991 Grey Cup but his many injuries limited him to just 8 games in both seasons and after 1991, he was not re-signed and let him go through free agency.

I stated numerous times that after losing Doug Flutie in the spring of 1992, instead of trading for Danny Barrett as their starting QB for the Lions in 1992 season, the Lions should have made a better effort to try to sign Matt Dunigan again after he became a free agent. Instead, he was scooped up by the Winnipeg Blue Bombers with whom he had there decent seasons with Grey Cup appearances in 1992 and 1993, along with a 713-yard record making game in 1994.

[obs]

Weird, I thought I had replied to this thread before, but it must have been a similar thread. (Came across this while searching for how BC acquired Jan Carinci.)

Worst trade ever was trading Dunigan to TOR. Yeah, BC gave up too much to get him, but at least he was a top-tier player and was one play away from winning the Grey Cup. (Rick Johnson retired to get into acting. Here's him in action :


Regarding trading Damon Allen, Bob Ackles said that Lions fans didn't have any confidence in him. And around the time, Dave Dickensen became available, so you're not going to have both guys around. Besides, who knew that Allen would have such a great year when he's been inconsistent pretty much his whole career. In TOR, they were winning games with him passing for 150 yards, then out of nowhere, in 2004, he puts in his best season ever (maybe not stat-wise, but in general play).

Not a trade, but signing Joe Galat was the worst thing ever to happen to the BC Lions .

PS. Danny Barrett may not have done so well in BC overall, but he was beating BC when he was in Calgary. And don't forget that in a Lions uniform, he set the single game passing record with 600+ before Dunigan eclipsed it with 700+.

[Robbie]

Worst trade ever was trading Dunigan to TOR. Yeah, BC gave up too much to get him, but at least he was a top-tier player and was one play away from winning the Grey Cup.

Just for clarification obs, are you specifically referring to:

a) The 1988 BC-Edmonton trade that brought Matt Dunigan to the Lions in exchange for six players to the (then) Eskimos?
b) The 1990 BC-Toronto trade that sent Matt Dunigan to the Argonauts in exchange for six players that the Lions received?

The reason I ask is because you first mention Dunigan to TOR but then you mention BC gave up too much go get him which was a different trade in itself.

I'll agree that BOTH trades didn't benefit the Lions in that overall, the other team "won" the trade and thus can be considered "bad" trades from a Lions perspective.

While I agree that the BC-Toronto trade involving Matt Dunigan was not the best trades that the Lions made in franchise history, to say that it's the worst trade ever would definitely be an overstatement. Because remember that even though the Lions lost a good QB in the form of Matt Dunigan after the 1989 season, they immediately picked up another great QB in the form of Doug Flutie in the 1990 season. So there wasn't too much of a "loss" in terms of a QB perspective. I will totally agree though that the six players that the Lions received from the Argonauts were not good at all as explained in my post above. Aside from Willie Pless, the five other players were completely ineffective and didn't last the entire season while Pless himself left to Edmonton after just one season in 1991. This is in huge contrast to the six players that Edmonton received from Matt Dunigan in 1988 in that all six players turned out to be good, long-term Eskimos.

PS. Danny Barrett may not have done so well in BC overall, but he was beating BC when he was in Calgary. And don't forget that in a Lions uniform, he set the single game passing record with 600+ before Dunigan eclipsed it with 700+.

In 1991 while Calgary won the regular season series 3-1 over BC and then narrowly won the WDSF 43-41 as well, it wasn't so much that Danny Barrett was better than Doug Flutie as it was who had the better defence. No doubt Doug Flutie with his MOP and future hall of famer was a heck of a lot better than Danny Barrett. But unfortunately from 1989-1992 the Lions could very well had the most terrible defence in the CFL at that time. The Stampeders had a much better defence with all-stars CB Junior Thurman, DB Darryl Hall, and DE Will Johnson along with west division all-star LB Alondra Johnson. As stated before, putting on 31 points on the first half and 41 points overall is usually good enough for a team to win - but not if the pathetic defence allows 43 points including 28 points in the third quarter which was what happened in the WDSF. What was so frustrating about the 1991 Lions season is that all the hard work that Doug Flutie and his offence put on the board all went for nothing if the terrible defence allows the opponent to put on even more points. I'll even say that not just Danny Barrett, but any average CFL QB could have beaten the Lions as long as they had their pitiful defence.

Suppose Matt Dunigan stayed with the Lions in 1990 and 1991 - I'd say overall the results in 1990 would have been similar to the 1989 season and the 1991 season would have been identical - a good QB who would put on many points only to have the terrible defence lose games.

The Lions defence finally improved in 1993 and especially in 1994. Had Barrett still remained with the Lions, there was a good chance that he could have won the Grey Cup with him. Remember in 1994, QB duties were shared by Kent Austin and Danny McManus - were either them outstanding? NO. They were simply aided by a good running game and a great defence.

Not a trade, but signing Joe Galat was the worst thing ever to happen to the BC Lions .

I guess you have then-BC Lions President Grant MacLaren to blame then. After Bob Ackles left the BC Lions to take a job in Dallas, and after Joe Galat was out of a job when the then-Montreal Concordes folded, MacLaren decided to hire Joe Galat as the new Lions GM even though Galat certainly didn't manage and coach the Concordes well at all with four straight losing seasons.