SammyGreene wrote: ↑Tue Jun 13, 2017 8:09 am
Jim Mullin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:18 pm
SammyGreene wrote: ↑Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:18 pm
Season tickets now hovering around 10,000 I imagine.
Less.
Much less.
It's a shame because this is an entertaining team with a good ad campaign out there.
Scary. I better brace myself for what the regular season opener attendance is going to look like. 15,000?
As The LionKing appropriately states the cycle back to the pre-Ackles days is now complete. And to make matters worse the biggest off field name that provides the most credibility to the franchise sails off into the sunset at season's end.
Great read Blitz. As good as your on field assessments. As you pointed out, fans should have started flocking back to BC Place last season with an exciting young QB and dynamic offence like they did with Printers in 2004. But they didn't. Poor decisions by ownership and beyond, coupled with a ever-changing Metro Vancouver demographic and other factors (Seahawks bandwagon for one), haven taken its toll.
The Whitecaps sure know what they are up against despite spending far more money on marketing and especially staff. Years later, they are in no hurry to increase their typical capacity beyond 22,000 in a 55,000 seat stadium and are fighting like heck to maintain that in this very fickle and often disinterested market at least when it comes to purchasing tickets to support local teams.
I don't see any easy fix. Lions thought they had one with Jennings and Wally back on the sidelines. The potential new owners have an uphill battle as Jim points out. Like Blitz suggests, they could do everything right with an entertaining product and it still might not work.
Toronto and Vancouver officially the league trouble spots. When have I seen that before?
Its a complex dilemma, though I still believe the most important factor was both our lack of spending on marketing plus poor marketing strategies.
Wally Buono was mentioned as a factor. Its an interesting topic. From the press/media vantage point in B.C. , the press and media generally view Buono as being a tremendous positive in terms of the fan base.
I'm not so sure. On the one hand, since 2003, we've had a lot of good regular seasons and the most consistent time period, in terms of winning that our Leos franchise has experienced, while 'under' Buono.
At the same time, our playoff record has not matched our regular season success and we lost a number of playoff games where we were favored. Our style of play has also not helped at times either. Even though we have enjoyed watching very exciting and talented players, we've also had too many seasons of passive defence and predictable offence.
The excitement meter went up with the emergence of Casey Printers in 2004, the play of Travis Lulay and Andrew Harris in 2011, and Jonathan Jennings incredible arm in 2016. Of course there were other star players from Geroy Simon to Sol E. that fans came out to see.
But overall, while we have mostly been a successful team during regular season play, with Buono, we have often not been an exciting team to watch and our Leos brain trust did not do much to create a 'fan experience' at games. Lions half time shows are usually deadly and cheap. Like how many times would an average fan get excited about watching a high school band perform?
We won a Grey Cup in 2011, with a great comeback season and there was opportunity to create some momentum again, after three less than stellar seasons before. The 2012 season started off great with Benevedes but a brutal and disappointing playoff loss led to three more seasons of disappointment.
Buono had years to develop and determine his successor and his choice of Benevedes turned out to be a bad one. Hiring Tedford also turned out poorly, as Tedford seemed to be out of his comfort zone. Buono's overcontrolling of both coaches certainly didn't help.
I also wonder if a complete change of this regime might help turn things around. It could. Perhaps an ownership change and a general manager change, along with a fresh new HC, not 'owing' his job to Buono would be invigorating. Or it also could lead to even poorer results and the fan base declining even more
Anyway, Buono will play a big role in the succession plan and that succession plan will very likely see Mark Washington as HC and Buono's sycophants in place when he leaves, so they can comment most favorably about Wally's tenure.
The status quo does not seem to be the answer. We could win it all this season and it likely won't make much of a difference in terms of fans. Jonathan Jennings, the Manny Show, Chris Rainey, Chris Williams, Sol E. are exciting, very talented players but it won't make much of a difference, fan wise and that is a such a shame because this is a very talented Lions squad - one of our best ever, in terms of on-field player talent.
But I also understand that there is a 'same old' sense about our Leos. I have two friends who were really dedicated Lions fans for a long time. But they don't bother anymore. When I get excited about another upcoming Lions season, they both say to me...."It will be the same story - the Leos will tempt you with some regular season success and some exciting players to watch but it will all end up with a disappointing playoff loss, with good odds that it will likely a blowout.
I know that they have been disappointed too many times in the playoffs in the Buono era and have a viewpoint that many of those losses looked like we were badly outcoached and that our team played very flat, when it shouldn't have. Their comments reflect that they don't they see Buono in a very positive light and are tired of his ways of operating. I don't know if they reflect the majority of fans who have stopped going to games or are just a minority viewpoint but they used to be very dedicated Leo fans and now they don't care.
They say they respect that I'm still a die hard Leo fan but they give me feedback, that for them, its always going to be the 'Buono way' and that nothing changes except the players - that its the same old script, same old lines, same old ways of doing things, same old marketing, same old B.S. and they are tired of it and not interested anymore.
There doesn't seem to be a 'connection' between Buono and most fans. I have some buddies who are Seahawk fans and they have never met Pete Caroll but they 'connect' with him.
In Pittsburg, Mike Tomlin is having a Live Fan Forum on June 14th.
Its advertised as such:
Want to know how the team is looking as training camp approaches? Want to know what the expectations are for this group in 2017? Members can get these questions and more answered as Head Coach Mike Tomlin sits down to connect with Steelers fans all around the world tomorrow afternoon.
On Wednesday, June 14, Steelers fans are receiving an exclusive opportunity to talk with Coach Tomlin in a live fan forum event at 4:15pm
Somehow, if we are ever going to get this shipped turned around, our Leos are going to have to create a connection between the team and the fans that is now mostly gone, except for us die hards.
It used to be there between our Lions and fans. Its been lost and its been lost during our most successful era.
One thing I have learned powerfully in this life is that how one makes people feel is so much more important than most or even all other factors. How a teacher makes a student feel is often the most important factor in student motivation. How one makes a friend or colleague feel is a powerful factor in a thriving work or social relationship. How one makes an employee feel is a very powerful factor in building a sense of teamwork and a commitment towards common goals.
Bobby Ackles understood this concept very well. He built back the fan base, not just by good decision making, but by making connections in this province. Bobby Ackles is highly thought of on this site, not only due to his football savvy but also by a powerful sense that he cared about Leo fans.
He also connected with the business community and with Leos alumni. He had an extensive network of contacts in pro football and most importantly, he connected with fans.
Braley, as an absentee owner and Buono as a GM and HC have never really been able to do that. Buono also struggled to do that in Calgary. Yes, our Leos have programs to get players out into the community but those are old strategies that our Leos have been doing since the 1960's.
Buono creates a sense that fan connection is obligatory at best. He blames players to the media when things don't go well. His own comment about how its difficult to replace a 'legend' like himself' is an example of the sense I often hear that its much more about Wally than anything or everything else.
And unfortunately Braley, Skulsky, Buono and Co. have created an impression that the only reason they care about fans is when they want their ticket money.
Of course there is much more to the declining fan base in B.C. than this lack of connection. But it seems to be a theme that underlies a lot of things, when it comes to the declining Lions fan base. Its more of an underlying feeling, a sense of things, an intuitive notion that this is Wally's team and not the players team or the fans team too...that its Wally's 'show'. Rather than everyone feeling a part of it, we are only there to pay for it, while our major role is to admire Buono.
I know that there are a few Lionbackers think I am too tough on Buono and perhaps I am. But there are also others who give him too much of a free pass. Buono did a good job last season, overall, as HC and he has done an excellent job this off-season in brining in some excellent talent to compliment last year's squad. There is enough talent on this team to win the Grey Cup, as there was last season. Buono had our Leos playing hard last year and will this season too. The team is cohesive and supportive of each other and want to play for each other.
But the sense that I got was that fans were cheering for the B.C. Lions as a total identity when Ackles was here. Now the overwhelming identity is that its solely Buono's team rather than the B.C. Lions. It may be subtle at times but its a powerful difference.
We often see it in Buono's hiring decisions. We see it in media access, where Buono is usually the only coach or staff interviewed and quoted. The press and media are complicit. The B.C. Lions are Wally Buono, rather than Buono is the GM/Coach of the B.C. Lions.
This is supposed to be our team but it doesn't feel that way anymore.
One positive that could happen for this season, would be for the press and media to interview and quote from more players, more assistant coaches, and other L|ons staff like Chayka and McEvoy, and even more importantly, to get comments from fans and focus less on Buono.
It might create more of sense that the B.C. Lions are B.C.'s team and Vancouver's team, that this is a 'collective' of players and coaches and staff and fans and not just about Wally.
Good things start somewhere. It would be a good place to start, in terms of attempting to rebuild the fan base. Its where Bobby Ackles started when he came back to our Leos - it was about the fans and not Bobby.... and good things happened after that.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
