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The_Pauser wrote:Too early to talk about coaching candidates for the new vacancies? There's a nice shiny Receiver's coaching spot available for an old Lions WR legend
I hear you, but I'm not sure that it follows that a great receiver will necessarily be a great receivers' coach.
It is kind of interesting that none of Geroy's recent predecessors for the all-time reception yardage title seems to have gotten into coaching. In fact, this is the full membership of the 10k club (all retired as of 2014 except for Lewis, who may not play in 2015). How many of them have been noted coaches at the college or pro level so far? Mitchell has had a stint with Esks, and Cahoon was RC for a year or two at BYU. Anyone else?
1 SIMON, Geroy 16,352
2 STEGALL, Milt 15,153
3 PITTS, Allen 14,891
4 FLUTIE, Darren 14,359
5 VAUGHN, Terry 13,746
6 CAHOON, Ben 13,301
7 ELGAARD, Ray 13,198
8 NARCISSE, Don 12,366
9 MITCHELL, Derrell 12,014
10 BRUCE III, Arland 11,625
11 LEWIS, Nik 11,250
12 KELLY, Brian 11,169
13 SCOTT, Tom 10,837
14 COFFEY, Tommy-Joe 10,320
15 WINFIELD, Earl 10,119
16 COPELAND, Jeremaine 10,015
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
Coordinator and Assistant Coach appointments are important, of course, and we`re all eagerly anticipating new faces in the Lions`den. For me, though, just as important is who will start at quarterback in 2015. We can have a great HC and OC, but unless we have real quality and reliability at QB, it will be tough to be good offensively. I think someone--maybe Wally--said weeks ago now that the two most important decisions will be HC and QB. We`ve presumably solved the HC problem, but QB is still an unknown.
South Pender wrote:Coordinator and Assistant Coach appointments are important, of course, and we`re all eagerly anticipating new faces in the Lions`den. For me, though, just as important is who will start at quarterback in 2015. We can have a great HC and OC, but unless we have real quality and reliability at QB, it will be tough to be good offensively. I think someone--maybe Wally--said weeks ago now that the two most important decisions will be HC and QB. We`ve presumably solved the HC problem, but QB is still an unknown.
Frankly I wrote off Lulay as done when he went down in Ott in Sep. Whatever else we get out of him now after I've-lost-count-of-how-many shoulder injuries until we can develop another bona fide starter, I will regard as bonus.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
South Pender wrote:Coordinator and Assistant Coach appointments are important, of course, and we`re all eagerly anticipating new faces in the Lions`den. For me, though, just as important is who will start at quarterback in 2015. We can have a great HC and OC, but unless we have real quality and reliability at QB, it will be tough to be good offensively. I think someone--maybe Wally--said weeks ago now that the two most important decisions will be HC and QB. We`ve presumably solved the HC problem, but QB is still an unknown.
Frankly I wrote off Lulay as done when he went down in Ott in Sep. Whatever else we get out of him now after I've-lost-count-of-how-many shoulder injuries until we can develop another bona fide starter, I will regard as bonus.
Yes, sadly, I think you're probably right. And I don't think we can count on any of the remaining QBs on hand--Beck, Partridge, and Rodgers--to make our offense potent. Could be wrong, of course, just my opinion. I hope this is given priority in the off-season.
I am very happy to hear that Dorazio is no longer the Lions Oline coach. While I hope that Kelly Bates takes over that job, Tedford may have someone else from the US in mind to coach the Oline. However Tedford will not have someone in mind with Bates' knowledge of Nat. players and so a new Draft Co-coordinator to replace Bates will likely be a step backwards for the Lions.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
DanoT wrote:I am very happy to hear that Dorazio is no longer the Lions Oline coach. While I hope that Kelly Bates takes over that job, Tedford may have someone else from the US in mind to coach the Oline. However Tedford will not have someone in mind with Bates' knowledge of Nat. players and so a new Draft Co-coordinator to replace Bates will likely be a step backwards for the Lions.
A name I stumbled across tonight that may come out of left field, but still bears watching, is Matt Weigand. He's a young guy, 30ish. In terms of coaching experience he has more than Bates but not a lot more. However he has worked with Tedford at Cal and in Tampa. He was a Graduate Assistant at Cal under Tedford in Jeff's final 2 seasons there. He worked primarily with OL and Tight Ends. He held a similar role with Utah Utes in 2010. He was hired by Tampa Bay this past season to be their Assistant OL Coach. He was a first team all-Conference OL at Div III La Verne graduating in 2006. He also coached OL in Arena Football and at Occidental College in 2008. Holding a Masters Degree in Organizational Leadership he is apparently fairly bright too.
You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
DanoT wrote:I am very happy to hear that Dorazio is no longer the Lions Oline coach. While I hope that Kelly Bates takes over that job, Tedford may have someone else from the US in mind to coach the Oline. However Tedford will not have someone in mind with Bates' knowledge of Nat. players and so a new Draft Co-coordinator to replace Bates will likely be a step backwards for the Lions.
A name I stumbled across tonight that may come out of left field, but still bears watching, is Matt Weigand. He's a young guy, 30ish. In terms of coaching experience he has more than Bates but not a lot more. However he has worked with Tedford at Cal and in Tampa. He was a Graduate Assistant at Cal under Tedford in Jeff's final 2 seasons there. He worked primarily with OL and Tight Ends. He held a similar role with Utah Utes in 2010. He was hired by Tampa Bay this past season to be their Assistant OL Coach. He was a first team all-Conference OL at Div III La Verne graduating in 2006. He also coached OL in Arena Football and at Occidental College in 2008. Holding a Masters Degree in Organizational Leadership he is apparently fairly bright too.
When Bates was relieved of his duties, Weigand was the first person I thought of for Tedford...no doubt he is a good, knowledgable coach, but I would still prefer Kelly!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
I think with Tedford focusing all of his changes on the Offence makes purrfect sense...our Offence was a DISASTER in 2014 and needed attention immediately as the talent is there! Tedford is an Offensive coach so it was also a natural for him to start there as well!
From JTs perspective he must have choked back a laugh when he found out that our WR coach was a former CFL QB and HC that hadn't done much of late...that our RB coach was an OLineman waiting for his chance as OLINE Coach...and that Dorazio's zone scheme was out of date a decade ago...JT may very well have a lot of sympathy for Khari Jones which might be one reason why he is targeting him as our new QB Coach. What is clear to me is that we MUST have someone GOOD come in as our WR coach...our young CDN crew has talent, but they need coaching and confidence. We also have a host of young, talented INT WRs that will only benefit from good coaching as well. This is going to be a crucial hire for Tedford. He can't just make Khari Jones his QB/WR Coach and expect things to work! We need a dedicated WR coach and he must be good!
As for the OLine Coach, not hiring Kelly Bates is a mistake IMO, but now that JT has let go of Dorazio that was the big first step! JT will no doubt find someone qualified and skilled to take over the OLine which IMO should actually become AN AREA OF STRENGTH for the Lions in 2015!
With S Ts McMann MUST GO! JT will undoubtedly bring in someone skilled and qualified!
Defence will come next but there likely won't be as many changes as with the offence. The question will be to view Washington as a young coach on the rise, or in way over his head. I can't make this call because I don't know what pressures were brought to bear upon Washington this past season. However, I will say this...whoever was ultimately responsible for that defence last season DOESN'T UNDERSTAND either the nature of Defence or Coaching. You can be clever for a game or against a specific team and get away with it, but when you try and rely on your "cleverness" over an 18 game season, you are merely shockingly ignorant! All teams will figure out the gimmick you are applying and adjust to it. Without PRESSURE on CFL offences, they will simply eat you up...with our field, defences a yard off the ball and motion, offences have a HUGE ADVANTAGE, which is why the other 8 CFL teams all rely heavily upon the blitz defensively! Holland should stay as LB coach, but Hairston has not been overwhelming with the DLine. We will see what happens, but JT definitely understands football and has connections to excellent ASST Coaches all over NA!
My only concern with Tedford keeping Washington is this...JT will have to focus A LOT on the offence, even if he brings in Cortez as OC...we have HUGE problems at QB and massive changes that need cohesion! He will HAVE TO TRUST heavily his S T Coordinator and his DC...Washington CANNOT be trusted to be left alone, that much we do know! In a playoff game with EVERYTHING on the line, it didn't take a genius to know that at halftime (regardless if someone was pressuring him or not) he needed to come with all out pressure against the MTL rookie QB to force turnovers! If Tedford does focus heavily upon the Offence in 2015 (which he should), a DC like Ritchie Hall would make a ton of sense in place of the fledgling Mark Washington and Company!
Lots of work accomplished? Yep! Lots of work still to do? Yep! OLine Coach, WR Coach, S T Coach, DC and DL Coaches are MAJOR ISSUES for JT over the next few weeks!!!
"Condemnation Without Investigation is the height of ignorance."
DanoT wrote:I am very happy to hear that Dorazio is no longer the Lions Oline coach. While I hope that Kelly Bates takes over that job, Tedford may have someone else from the US in mind to coach the Oline. However Tedford will not have someone in mind with Bates' knowledge of Nat. players and so a new Draft Co-coordinator to replace Bates will likely be a step backwards for the Lions.
A name I stumbled across tonight that may come out of left field, but still bears watching, is Matt Weigand. He's a young guy, 30ish. In terms of coaching experience he has more than Bates but not a lot more. However he has worked with Tedford at Cal and in Tampa. He was a Graduate Assistant at Cal under Tedford in Jeff's final 2 seasons there. He worked primarily with OL and Tight Ends. He held a similar role with Utah Utes in 2010. He was hired by Tampa Bay this past season to be their Assistant OL Coach. He was a first team all-Conference OL at Div III La Verne graduating in 2006. He also coached OL in Arena Football and at Occidental College in 2008. Holding a Masters Degree in Organizational Leadership he is apparently fairly bright too.
That's some great research Hambone and definitely a name to watch out for.
As Mexico Lion Fan so accurately points out, Tedford coming in here with his background and completely overhauling the offensive coaching staff is very encouraging news. Unfortunately Bates was going to be in tough as a former o-lineman coaching running backs compared to the candidates Tedford can attract with all his NCAA connections.
I'm not naive enough to think Tedford is here for the long haul. But if he is here long enough to rebuild our quarterback depth by identifying and developing a couple of prospects and has brought some outstanding assistants north of the border that can potentially replace him, then those are huge contributions this organization desperately needed.
So glad to see the end of the Dorazio era. Would love to eventually see the Montreal or Calgary philosophy of developing Canadian talent to start at least 4 of them. The Alouettes maintaining an all-Canadian o-line is remarkable given they have lost a couple of future hall of famers in the last few seasons with Chiu and Flory retiring yet haven't missed a beat.
Under Dorazio, starting a Canadian at tackle never was an option. The fact they were grooming Hunter Steward to play guard until Ramsey got hurt is just ridiculous. Steward is still listed as a guard on the Lions roster.
Hambone wrote:
A name I stumbled across tonight that may come out of left field, but still bears watching, is Matt Weigand. He's a young guy, 30ish. In terms of coaching experience he has more than Bates but not a lot more. However he has worked with Tedford at Cal and in Tampa. He was a Graduate Assistant at Cal under Tedford in Jeff's final 2 seasons there. He worked primarily with OL and Tight Ends. He held a similar role with Utah Utes in 2010. He was hired by Tampa Bay this past season to be their Assistant OL Coach. He was a first team all-Conference OL at Div III La Verne graduating in 2006. He also coached OL in Arena Football and at Occidental College in 2008. Holding a Masters Degree in Organizational Leadership he is apparently fairly bright too.
Good research, Hambone.
No doubt Tedford has many, many guys he could choose for O Line coach. Experienced, proven and competent. I don't see filling that position as a problem. We need a good guy, for sure, but it seems to me they are out there.
Same with QB, RB and Receiver coaches. Our O staff is getting a thorough overhaul. Much needed.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
SammyGreene wrote:
As Mexico Lion Fan so accurately points out, Tedford coming in here with his background and completely overhauling the offensive coaching staff is very encouraging news. Unfortunately Bates was going to be in tough as a former o-lineman coaching running backs compared to the candidates Tedford can attract with all his NCAA connections.
So glad to see the end of the Dorazio era. Would love to eventually see the Montreal or Calgary philosophy of developing Canadian talent to start at least 4 of them. The Alouettes maintaining an all-Canadian o-line is remarkable given they have lost a couple of future hall of famers in the last few seasons with Chiu and Flory retiring yet haven't missed a beat.
Agreed, Sammy. Oh yeah. Been a theme of mine for a few years now. Twelve years in which to build a National O Line here, and it did not happen. Reduced to starting three Internationals this year just showed how far behind Montreal and Calgary we were in O Line development. We do have good, young talent now, with credit due to Kelly Bates, I expect, for his judgment of O Line prospects.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.
Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.
Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
Hambone wrote:So far this is an interesting thread. One of the biggest demands of Lionbackers with the change at HC is that the new man have total autonomy to put his own stamp on the coaching staff without Wally meddling in things. Clearly Tedford has been empowered just as we wanted and in some cases we apparently don't like it. Now angst and handwringing is creeping in as while there is affirmative reaction to some of the deletions there is quickly becoming questioning of other apparent moves. As someone else suggested I think we have to take a deep breath and wait until we see the final composition of Tedford's hand picked staff before panning individual choices.
X2 We demand that the new coach have the authority to make changes as he sees fit. Now that Tedford is making changes he gets criticize by the experts on this forum.
In my view, getting the right guy for O-line coach is near the top of my list. A great, or even just good, O-line can render weaknesses elsewhere on the offense less important and, of course, can prolong the playing-life of your quarterback. Taking a couple of examples from the NFL, the Cowboys were seen in the preseason as being another 8-8 team. However, great O-line play has propelled them to 12-4. What was seen as a somewhat mediocre O-line is now seen as maybe the best in the NFL. Their RB, DeMarco Murray has had a career year, and Tony Romo has avoided injury. Tom Cable has done a good job with a less-than-great O-line in Seattle.
Given our talent at running back, along with, perhaps, inexperience at quarterback, the Lions desperately need a solid O-line if they are to have any success. It would seem that we have the players--although adding to what we have through the draft would be prudent--in Olafioye and either Hardrick or Steward at the tackles, and Hardrick or Steward at one guard position, with, maybe Player or Thorn at the other guard position and Norman at centre (although Norman has been less than stellar at centre and may be better deployed at guard). Good coaching and teaching with these guys should produce a good O-line with only two Internationals.
The_Pauser wrote:Too early to talk about coaching candidates for the new vacancies? There's a nice shiny Receiver's coaching spot available for an old Lions WR legend
I hear you, but I'm not sure that it follows that a great receiver will necessarily be a great receivers' coach.
It is kind of interesting that none of Geroy's recent predecessors for the all-time reception yardage title seems to have gotten into coaching. In fact, this is the full membership of the 10k club (all retired as of 2014 except for Lewis, who may not play in 2015). How many of them have been noted coaches at the college or pro level so far? Mitchell has had a stint with Esks, and Cahoon was RC for a year or two at BYU. Anyone else?
1 SIMON, Geroy 16,352
2 STEGALL, Milt 15,153
3 PITTS, Allen 14,891
4 FLUTIE, Darren 14,359
5 VAUGHN, Terry 13,746
6 CAHOON, Ben 13,301
7 ELGAARD, Ray 13,198
8 NARCISSE, Don 12,366
9 MITCHELL, Derrell 12,014
10 BRUCE III, Arland 11,625
11 LEWIS, Nik 11,250
12 KELLY, Brian 11,169
13 SCOTT, Tom 10,837
14 COFFEY, Tommy-Joe 10,320
15 WINFIELD, Earl 10,119
16 COPELAND, Jeremaine 10,015
Jeremaine Copeland was a receivers coach for the Ticats in 2012. I don't know what he has been doing since however. Copeland's Wikipedia page has not been updated since the Ticats let him go (along with Cortez) after the 2012 season.
