Jock Sanders - YouTube

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WestCoastJoe
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Of course he is a little guy. Any defender can bring him down if they get a good shot at him. Getting that shot is the problem. He is about the size of Stefan Logan, who also went down fairly easy once wrapped or given a good shot. And we know that Stefan Logan can play.

His speed looks about the same as Logan. With their short legs they are not that good at all out running down the field. We saw Logan caught from behind in the CFL. Sanders gets caught quite often in his tapes. What they are is waterbugs. Shifty beyond belief. Both had good times in the 40, but IMO that does not necessarily translate into flat out downfield speed, such as a long-legged guy like Akeem Foster generates.

In any case, what guys like Logan and Sanders bring is excitement, and effectiveness on the field. Both of these guys have huge hearts, and all the requisite mental attributes. They have been proving themselves all their lives. :thup:
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TheLionKing
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I just hope Jock Sanders don't turn into another Jimmy Cunningham
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joe kapp22
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TheLionKing wrote:I just hope Jock Sanders don't turn into another Jimmy Cunningham
Hmm, how about Robert Jordan?

Exactly, learned a hard lesson about hyping up an import based on what they did in college.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
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WestCoastJoe
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joe kapp22 wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:I just hope Jock Sanders don't turn into another Jimmy Cunningham
Hmm, how about Robert Jordan?

Exactly, learned a hard lesson about hyping up an import based on what they did in college.
I have not heard much hype about Jock Sanders. And I don't recall hearing any about Robert Jordan. I don't recall any fans liking his play. He was Wally's guy. And Lionbackers were merciless in their criticism of his ineffectiveness.

Sanders looks good on tape. IMO ... those runs in college are not figments of anyone's imagination. The Lions have had his rights since 2008. They were obviously keen to acquire him. And he jumps up the depth chart.

Personally, I expect him to be about like Stefan Logan (I suppose that is fan hype). And IMO Stefan Logan was not the best RB in the CFL. He was a waterbug. Exciting. But nowhere near a day in day out runner like Joffrey Reynolds. Et cetera ...

So we have a new waterbug. I would be surprised if he is as dangerous on kick returns as Yonus Davis. Davis IMO had much better size, and more down the field speed.
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joe kapp22
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
joe kapp22 wrote:
TheLionKing wrote:I just hope Jock Sanders don't turn into another Jimmy Cunningham
Hmm, how about Robert Jordan?

Exactly, learned a hard lesson about hyping up an import based on what they did in college.
I have not heard much hype about Jock Sanders. And I don't recall hearing any about Robert Jordan. I don't recall any fans liking his play. He was Wally's guy. And Lionbackers were merciless in their criticism of his ineffectiveness.

Sanders looks good on tape. IMO ... those runs in college are not figments of anyone's imagination. The Lions have had his rights since 2008. They were obviously keen to acquire him. And he jumps up the depth chart.

Personally, I expect him to be about like Stefan Logan (I suppose that is fan hype). And IMO Stefan Logan was not the best RB in the CFL. He was a waterbug. Exciting. But nowhere near a day in day out runner like Joffrey Reynolds. Et cetera ...

So we have a new waterbug. I would be surprised if he is as dangerous on kick returns as Yonus Davis. Davis IMO had much better size, and more down the field speed.
Sharpe, comes to mind.

For a yank it is hard to compute that a fella who was "good down here" cannot be successful "up North".

A hard lesson learned for me at least.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
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Wakesbetterthanyou
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He sucked immensely. At least he didn't fumble. That's my highest praise for jock.
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Rammer
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Wakesbetterthanyou wrote:He sucked immensely. At least he didn't fumble. That's my highest praise for jock.
Yep, Jock was strapped in his CFL debut.
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TheLionKing
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I thought Sanders was OK in his debut. He showed he got quick feet.
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David
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TheLionKing wrote:I thought Sanders was OK in his debut. He showed he got quick feet.
I agree. Considering he had all of 4 practices, I think he did alright. I see the potential there. It's worth mentioning that on almost every return, there was NOTHING there. Hamilton was waiting to pounce as soon as he touched the ball (less 5 yards).

That may be the biggest mismatch Special Teams game I've witnessed in a long time.

DH :cool:
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WestCoastJoe
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Not a game breaker. Not in Yonus Davis' class IMO. Nor of Stefan Logan.
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B.C.FAN
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Sanders returned 8 kickoffs tonight for an average of 20.1 yards.
Tim Brown has returned 48 kicks for an average of 20.7 yards.
Andrew Harris has returned 11 kicks for an average of 17.9 yards.
The overall league average this year is 19.5 yards.
The league leaders are averaging around 25 yards.

Sanders was, like other B.C. returners, just average in his debut. He didn't make any big mistakes and didn't make any big returns. He also didn't appear to miss any seams or fail to follow his blocking. He got what was there. It takes a team to make a returner look good. The problem this year with B.C.'s special teams is that they just haven't been special.
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WestCoastJoe
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B.C.FAN wrote: Sanders was, like other B.C. returners, just average in his debut. He didn't make any big mistakes and didn't make any big returns. He also didn't appear to miss any seams or fail to follow his blocking. He got what was there. It takes a team to make a returner look good.
BCFAN, I will disagree with the one statement I have italicized.

IMO a great returner oftentimes goes far beyond the team. A great returner oftentimes makes something out of nothing.

But nevertheless, Sanders looked ordinary at best tonight. For a very small guy to make it in the CFL he needs some amazing ability. Not sure yet if Sanders has that.
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Toppy Vann
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B.C.FAN wrote:Sanders returned 8 kickoffs tonight for an average of 20.1 yards.
Tim Brown has returned 48 kicks for an average of 20.7 yards.
Andrew Harris has returned 11 kicks for an average of 17.9 yards.
The overall league average this year is 19.5 yards.
The league leaders are averaging around 25 yards.

Sanders was, like other B.C. returners, just average in his debut. He didn't make any big mistakes and didn't make any big returns. He also didn't appear to miss any seams or fail to follow his blocking. He got what was there. It takes a team to make a returner look good. The problem this year with B.C.'s special teams is that they just haven't been special.
They are simply giving new meaning to the word "special".

The new guy looked a rookie should in pre-season which of course he hasn't had. He was learning that players in the CFL are pretty quick and you can't just outrun them easily.

It is great to get that breakaway player but they still need the folks up front to open something.

WCJ- yes the great ones make something out of the nothing but the soon-to-be-cut kick returners are the ones that fail when going off script and free lance. There is something not special about how the Lions return game is working .
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Rammer
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What Sanders lacked IMO, was the burst of speed a Chad Owens has, he just wasn't quick enough to make the corner and that will limit his effectiveness. He certainly seems to be able to squeek through small holes by getting low, but that only gives you an average return when the blocking isn't there, and that was often last night. ST's can't afford a night off as their best hasn't been on par with the opposition on any game that I recall, but when they don't show the heart necessary, it is going to be a long night for both the O and D.
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Solar Max
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Agree with Rammer; the kid can't accelerate quickly enough, which Logan could.

If he is a "Wally's Guy" he will survive TC 2012; if not, he is just one of many whose dream ends sooner rather than later.

Should he survive TC 2012? IMO, no.
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