I thought I would start this thread to honor the great memories I have had watching the lions since 1959. Here are my personal choices as the top ten lions of all-time
Honorable Mention or #11-23
in no particular order
Dave Dickenson
Darren Flutie
Glen Jackson
Ray Nettles
Tom Hinton
Bill Baker
Al Wilson
Brent Johnson
Barron Miles
Joe Kapp
Harry Holt
Unsung Players who maybe only I appreciated
john Henry White
Sean Millington
Top 10
Number 10
Jim Mills OT- my choice as the finest lineman ever to play for the BC Lions import or Canadian. This 6"9" tackle had the feet and wingspan to protect the blindside of BC quarterbacks. He went whole seasons without allowing a sack. in all the time I watched him he was never out of position or caught flatfooted until his last knee injury robbed him of his mobility.
Number 9
Larry Crawford -The best DB ever to play for the lions. In his nine year career he intercepted 51 passes. The next closest Lion has 37. More than that he was tenacious in pass coverage shutting down most receivers he was assigned to cover. You can talk about Yonus Davis and Stefan Logan, but Larry Crawford has 6000+ combined return yards for the lions leading this category by 50% over the next closest player
Number 8
Jim Young HB-SB-DB-the heart and soul of the BC Lions. This non import receiver played with unbending passion ad fury. Too bad the BC teams around him were so bad. He could of quit every game. But played hard and skillfully in every game he was in. Great hands and good speed.
This was the GI Joe prototype of player that reappeared in 20 years later in Jason Clermont.
Number 7
Tom Brown-MLB Not many people remember Tom Brown. I will tell you he redefined the position of MLB in the CFL. He was the mold that was used to make Dick Bukus. He was as big as Butkus,and as fast, and he hit as hard. He had great ball instincts. The thing he lacked was the hype machine the NFL provides. His stellar career was cut short by a neck injury. i loved watching this man play. He was definitely a man amongst boys out there.
Number 6
James "Quick" Parker-DE He was the first true rush end in the CFL. Don Matthews invented the position for him in Edmonton to take advantage of his explosive quickness and tenacity. He followed Matthews here and was featured in a strong defense that took BC to the Grey Cup. he had 82.5 sacks in 6 BC seasons. It took B. Johnson 10 seasons to break that record. He also had seasons of 26 and 22 sacks. A phenomenal and consistent performer.he rarely if ever took a play off
I will be back tomorrow with my top 5 BC Lions of all-time. That will give you time to comment on these and put up your own Top Ten
Top Lions of all-time- personal choice
Moderator: Team Captains
Too bad Jim Mills had to miss out on the 1994 GC season as he played for Ottawa that year and couldn't capture a GC ring in his otherwise fine career with two most outstanding offensive awards.strait8 wrote:Number 10
Jim Mills OT- my choice as the finest lineman ever to play for the BC Lions import or Canadian. This 6"9" tackle had the feet and wingspan to protect the blindside of BC quarterbacks. He went whole seasons without allowing a sack. in all the time I watched him he was never out of position or caught flatfooted until his last knee injury robbed him of his mobility.
Yeah, too bad Young was playing for the Lions when the franchise was in its horrible years of the late 60's and 70's and he never played in a GC game.[Number 8
Jim Young HB-SB-DB-the heart and soul of the BC Lions. This non import receiver played with unbending passion ad fury. Too bad the BC teams around him were so bad. He could of quit every game. But played hard and skillfully in every game he was in. Great hands and good speed.
This was the GI Joe prototype of player that reappeared in 20 years later in Jason Clermont.
祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放，首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事，由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放，首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事，由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你龍年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
Thanks strait8. Great read.strait8 wrote:
Number 8
Jim Young HB-SB-DB-the heart and soul of the BC Lions. This non import receiver played with unbending passion ad fury. Too bad the BC teams around him were so bad. He could of quit every game. But played hard and skillfully in every game he was in. Great hands and good speed.
I'm glad you recognized "Dirty 30's" speed. A lot of people don't recognize him for that (most remember the tenacity, great route running and, oh yea, the occasional forearm
).At the 1971 CFL All-Star game in Montreal, Jimmy placed 2nd in a foot race, won by Ottawa's Hugh Oldham. The players raced in heats, in full uniform (minus helmets) but carrying a football.
Larry Highbaugh and Jim Tomlin (both played for the Leos in 1971) were faster than Jim Young, but he was still a very fast receiver.
DH
Roar, You Lions, Roar
I remember that game (1994, maybe 95), on the last play of the first half, when he returned a MFG all the way for a TD.B.C.FAN wrote:I can relate to this category:strait8 wrote:Unsung Players who maybe only I appreciated
john Henry White
Sean Millington
Javy Glatt
Jason Kralt
Spencer McLennan
Kevin Konar
I could go on but the names would become too obscure.
Sports can be a peculiar thing. When partaking in fiction, like a book or movie, we adopt a "Willing Suspension of Disbelief" for enjoyment's sake. There's a similar force at work in sports: "Willing Suspension of Rationality". If you doubt this, listen to any conversation between rival team fans. You even see it among fans of the same team. Fans argue over who's the better QB or goalie, and selectively cite stats that support their views while ignoring those that don't.
John Henry White was absolutely everything you say. glad you recognized that. He and Sean Millington are the two "woulda, shouda coulda" players of the BC. LionsJohnHenry wrote:Some great names there! But my personal all-time Top Lion was:
Merv Fernandez
There has never been another Lion who has dominated his position like Merv did. He was the best ever. He had ALL the tools...speed, moves, hands. He was basically un-coverable. If the QB could get him the ball, he would make the catch...and often score. His only downgrade was he only played 6 seasons in BC...but what a great 6 years!
My runner-up personal all-time Top Lion was:
John Henry White
John Henry played fullback 10 seasons for the Lions. While only 6' - 200 lbs, he was a devastating blocker. He seemingly never missed a block or gave it a half effort, he could knock linemen on their backsides. He also had tremendous hands, leading the Lions in receptions in multiple seasons. His sneak move across the line of scrimmage was a mainstay of our offence for years. He averaged over 10 yards per reception, which is terrific for a FB. John Henry was also an excellent tailback, having to replace injured starting RB's in several seasons. He always had a higher rushing average than the tailback he was replacing. It was only his tremendous value as a blocker which precluded him from becoming a feature back for the Lions.
They coulda have been great if they were given the starting tail back slot on a permanentbasis.
They shoulda have been less selfless team players who accepted a role well below their talents.
They woulda been more recognized for the players they were if they had not been cast in a supporting role by coaches
More on Merv to follow
Willie Fleming is the Best Lion ever!!
In my top 5 there are really six. I had to put Cameron Wake on this list despite him only playing two years. i do not believe longevity is the first criterion. In my mind the best players have extra-ordinairy athletic skill, combined with the following intangibles,
Will to win,
Courage,
The ability to single handedly be a game changer,
The ability to see the field differently from other players
The ability to make the players around them rally to them
The ability to make every player around them look better
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play
So here is the list
Number 5A
Cameron Wake DE yes I know he only played two years and should have an asterisk or something beside his name. But this maybe the finest most athletic player ever to play defensive line in CFL history. He is the closest we will see to the impact player a Lawrence Taylor was in the NFL. This man had all of the skills and intangibles listed above in the 98th or 99 percentile. Opposition coaches had to game plan for him. Double teams were common place. His first league game, before he had Defensive co-ordinators wetting their pants trying to game plan for him, he got four sacks and enumerable pressures on the QB. it will be a long time to see anyone else this good in the league. Tweeners like him are being sought as situational pass rushers in the NFL today and less will slip through the net to CFL teams. As I said in another post. How good is he? He made the midterm Peter King SI All Pro team this year in his second NFL Season.
Number 5
Lui Passaglia K P For 25 years this man more games singlehandedly than any other player in CFL history. When games were on the line he calmly walked on the field and kicked a 50 yard fieldgoal. look at the criterion above and tell me Lui does not deserve to be on this list.
The numbers for this man are mind boggling- From Wikipedia
Played 25 years 408 Games. Two records that I believe will never be broken.
Passaglia holds many CFL regular season records including total points scored (3,991), most converts at 1,045 (560 consecutive—he missed only three), most field goals at 875 (of 1,203 attempted), best single season field goal percentage at 90.9% (40 of 44 in 2000, his final year of play), and most single points at 309.[4] Passaglia is the second all-time CFL punt leader with 3,142 for 133,826 yards (behind Bob Cameron), with the second highest average in a season (1983 CFL season) of 50.2 yards (Jon Ryan had a higher average in the 2005 season).[7] In CFL playoff games, Lui holds records for most points with 210, is tied for most field goals with 48, and has the longest recorded punt of 89 yards.
He scored touchdowns in his first and last games of his career.
i would venture to say though i cannot find the stats that Lui kicked more game winning fieldgoals than any other player in pro football history. And really despite arguments to the contrary kicking field goals in the CFL are are as difficult as they are in NFL. They are very comparible.
He was a wonderful athlete who practiced and honed his skill to razor sharpness. He was an amazing directional punter in the latter part of his career, switching from distance to sideline placement. He would have been a solid receiver if he had not been such a phenomenal kicker.
When you look at the intangibles you truly see his greatness.
Game Changer- I think his picture is beside that definition
Courage- Was he ever nervous when the game was on the line. i never saw it. Nerves of steel.Heart of a Lion
Ability to see the field differently. How many times did he take the ball in punt formation and take off. 1994 Grey Cup was a game changing play
How many time did he rally his team from certain defeat with long field goals or prodigious punts for single points.
He always electrified the fans, players and coaches with clutch kicking.
Lui Passaglia was the finest NI player ever to play for the Lions and best and most impactful (is this a word?) Canadian player ever drafted by this team. One of Bobby Ackles most masterful draft choices
Number 4
Mervyn Fernandez WR Number 24 was the absolute picture of grace and fluidity on the field. Fast, tall with great jumping ability and big sure hands, he owned corner backs throughout the CFL. he played 6 seasons in BC (though the last was truly forgettable). He is 3rd on the all time list behind Simon and Young with 522 catches for 6690 yards and 57 TD"s. He averaged a TD every 6.5 catches well ahead of the next closest competitor.
how does he stack up in the intangible department.
Game Changer- Without doubt a go to guy in the clutch
Courage- As a receiver undoubtedly, though he was used more as a perimeter player than an over the middle catcher. He never cringed that I ever saw
He made everybody around look better drawing double coverage and making impossible catches on less than purrfect Dewalt passes.
He lit up the stands, his teammates and his coaches with his play. he was a highlight reel in each game he played.
Fernandez went on to a very good career with the NFL Raiders where he holds the highest average catch 19.6 for a single season.
This was Ackles all time free agent find. Fernandez was working at Walmart or somewhere similar, after dropping out of college for poor scholastic results. He had only played one season, I think, of college ball.
Number 3
Geroy Simon SB-WR The only active player in the Top 10. Simon has been a model of consistency and excellence in 11 seasons with the Lions, he has caught 773 passes for 13,722 yards and 90 touchdowns. He has displayed over his career great athletic ability and consistency. Till this year he has maintained a high level in his considerable athletic skills. it seems this year for the first time we are seeing GS on the downside of his illustrious career,.
How does he rate in the intangible department
Courage- In spades, A slot back has to have it and Simon has rarely shirked from a catch
Will to Win-yes very high
The ability to single handedly be a game changer- He has shown this repeatedly throughout his career with clutch catches and game winning TD's
The ability to see the field differently from other players Simon has shown a rare ability to find the open space despite double coverage and constant bumping
The ability to make the players around them rally to them- He has been more of a quiet leader
The ability to make every player around them look better- Paris Jackson and every QB who has played with him has benefited from Simon being on the field with him
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play.- The man has been a high light reel his whole career.
One of the things to admire about Geroy is his career tenacity. He was cut 6 times (i think) before becoming a starter with the Lions. Also he the most meticulous and best dressed in uniform player to ever wear the BC lions colors. No one looks better wearing the uniform than Geroy. In this regard he is the Jerry Rice of the CFL. He will definitely go to the CFL hall of Fame and deservedly so.
Number 2
Doug Flutie QB I know, I know only two seasons, how can he make this team. You just had to watch this man on the field to realize he was so much better than all the players around him. He was magnetic to your eyes. He could do so much. He had the quickness and ball handling skills of a point guard. he was an excellent runner and passer. he was absolutely amazing every time he did something with the ball. When you look at all of the intangibles no player had them as completely as Doug Flutie. he would score 10/10 on each of the below intangible skils. In some he would score 11/10
Will to win,
Courage,
The ability to single handedly be a game changer,
The ability to see the field differently from other players
The ability to make the players around them rally to them
The ability to make every player around them look better
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play
From Wikipedia
His career CFL statistics include 41,355 passing yards and 270 touchdowns. He holds the professional football record of 6,619 yards passing in a single season. He still holds four of the CFL's top five highest single-season completion marks, including a record 466 in 1991. His 48 touchdown passes in 1994 remains a CFL record. He earned three Grey Cup MVP awards, and was named the CFL's Most Outstanding Player a record six times (1991–1994, and 1996–1997). He was 99-27 in games he played in. He was nominated the #1 player to ever play in the CFL in the TSN poll of top 50 players.
he was a star at Boston college, in USFL he was arguably the best player, a starter in the NFL for Buffalo, he played till he was over 40 years old
This was the forgettable Lary Kuharich's enduring contribution to the CFL. It was surprising to me that Obie did not fight harder to pay DF the money he wanted to stay here. The owner Pezim let him slip away and watched attendance drop 5000/game the next season. He would have brought many grey cups to BC and probably would have sustained the fan base and solidified ownership.
Number 1
Willie Fleming RB Fifty one years ago is a long time ago. That was the 1959 season when Fleming dawned the uniform of he BC Lions. You think maybe your mind embellishes the greatness of players from this era. This era was a special and magical time. It was a time before the AFL/NFL rivalry drove salaries beyond what CFL teams could pay. Before the 1960 establishment of the AFL, the CFL could compete with the NFL on salaries and often did bringing stars like Jackie Parker, Johnny Bright, Leo Lewis, Sam Etcheverry and Hal Patterson to play and star in the CFL.
Willie Fleming was small about 5'9" and 180 lbs, but he played bigger and faster than any player in the CFL ever has. and probably ever will again. I will make my case.
First of all- Bobby Ackles called Willie Fleming not only the greatest player he ever had, but the greatest player he ever saw in over 50 years of evaluating talent. Remember Ackles, drafted Emmit Smith, the all time leading rusher in the NFL for the Dallas Cowboys. Ackles saw literally ten's of thousands of players over his 50 year career in the NFL and CFL. Many went to the hall of Fame. RB's like Simpson, Sayers Sanders, and Dickerson passed his line of sight.
Ackles was emphatic Fleming was the best of them all.
When asked why Fleming was so good, Ackles said he was so much more athletic and quicker and faster than player in his time or since. It was a god given gift. To look for a comparison today, I can only think of Chris Johnston of the Titans. Fleming was the long ball home run player of all time like CJ is today.
Here are some of the numbers that make the case for WF. Some of these records will never be broken.
All time Rushing leader for the BC Lions
868 Rushes for 6125 yards
All time combined yardage leader for the BC lions
6125 Rushing 4480 Pass Receptions 1860 kick returns=12,465 total yards combined
All Time TD Leader
87 Tds in 7 years
#4 All time scoring, #1 by Non kicker
523 points
Leader-Season yards per rush average
9.7 yds per carry (CFL Record)
Leader Career average Yards per catch
19.4 yards
Leader-Single season average yards per Catch
24.3 yards
Leader- Receiving yards by Running back
4480
Of the 5 longest runs in BC Lions history all of them have Fleming's name beside them
109 yards -CFL record
98 yards
97 yards-three different times
***No season Fleming played in had more than 16 games. Two less than played today. This makes his records even more outstanding.
By any measure this man was amazing. He played so much faster than all those around him, they looked like they were standing still. I was at Clarke Stadium in Edmonton 1964 on Oct 27. BC had the ball on the one yard line. a simple handoff from Kapp to Fleming. Fleming looked like he had been fired from a rocket. He slipped through the hole made a quick move and started opening up space between him and defenders by the time he was on the 10. 109 yards later he was in the end zone with everyone 20-30 yards behind.
Some of his shorter runs and runs after catches were even more fun to Watch. He could reverse direction and cut like Barry Sanders, yet I am certain he was even faster. No one could get more than a hand on him as he twisted and dodged at lightning speed. The man could catch like a WR leading the team in pass receptions/yardage 5 times.
I think his greatest measure was he was he scored once every 10-11 times he touched the ball through out his career, This is an amazing stat for a running back.
How do his intangibles measure up.
Will to win-hard to know if it was this or his supreme skill set that made him so great
Courage- yes he was a very small man in a big man's game. Fearless
The ability to single handedly be a game changer- the best ever to wear BC Colors
The ability to see the field differently from other players- he not only found space, he made space
The ability to make the players around them rally to them -
The ability to make every player around them look better- No doubt about this
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play- Maybe the best ever in the CFL.
Like most running backs their careers are cut short by injury, but even in 1965 Willie averaged 6.4 yards per carry.
i would love to see him against todays players, but that is not to be.
So there you have it. Please wade in with your comments. I have made mine
Will to win,
Courage,
The ability to single handedly be a game changer,
The ability to see the field differently from other players
The ability to make the players around them rally to them
The ability to make every player around them look better
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play
So here is the list
Number 5A
Cameron Wake DE yes I know he only played two years and should have an asterisk or something beside his name. But this maybe the finest most athletic player ever to play defensive line in CFL history. He is the closest we will see to the impact player a Lawrence Taylor was in the NFL. This man had all of the skills and intangibles listed above in the 98th or 99 percentile. Opposition coaches had to game plan for him. Double teams were common place. His first league game, before he had Defensive co-ordinators wetting their pants trying to game plan for him, he got four sacks and enumerable pressures on the QB. it will be a long time to see anyone else this good in the league. Tweeners like him are being sought as situational pass rushers in the NFL today and less will slip through the net to CFL teams. As I said in another post. How good is he? He made the midterm Peter King SI All Pro team this year in his second NFL Season.
Number 5
Lui Passaglia K P For 25 years this man more games singlehandedly than any other player in CFL history. When games were on the line he calmly walked on the field and kicked a 50 yard fieldgoal. look at the criterion above and tell me Lui does not deserve to be on this list.
The numbers for this man are mind boggling- From Wikipedia
Played 25 years 408 Games. Two records that I believe will never be broken.
Passaglia holds many CFL regular season records including total points scored (3,991), most converts at 1,045 (560 consecutive—he missed only three), most field goals at 875 (of 1,203 attempted), best single season field goal percentage at 90.9% (40 of 44 in 2000, his final year of play), and most single points at 309.[4] Passaglia is the second all-time CFL punt leader with 3,142 for 133,826 yards (behind Bob Cameron), with the second highest average in a season (1983 CFL season) of 50.2 yards (Jon Ryan had a higher average in the 2005 season).[7] In CFL playoff games, Lui holds records for most points with 210, is tied for most field goals with 48, and has the longest recorded punt of 89 yards.
He scored touchdowns in his first and last games of his career.
i would venture to say though i cannot find the stats that Lui kicked more game winning fieldgoals than any other player in pro football history. And really despite arguments to the contrary kicking field goals in the CFL are are as difficult as they are in NFL. They are very comparible.
He was a wonderful athlete who practiced and honed his skill to razor sharpness. He was an amazing directional punter in the latter part of his career, switching from distance to sideline placement. He would have been a solid receiver if he had not been such a phenomenal kicker.
When you look at the intangibles you truly see his greatness.
Game Changer- I think his picture is beside that definition
Courage- Was he ever nervous when the game was on the line. i never saw it. Nerves of steel.Heart of a Lion
Ability to see the field differently. How many times did he take the ball in punt formation and take off. 1994 Grey Cup was a game changing play
How many time did he rally his team from certain defeat with long field goals or prodigious punts for single points.
He always electrified the fans, players and coaches with clutch kicking.
Lui Passaglia was the finest NI player ever to play for the Lions and best and most impactful (is this a word?) Canadian player ever drafted by this team. One of Bobby Ackles most masterful draft choices
Number 4
Mervyn Fernandez WR Number 24 was the absolute picture of grace and fluidity on the field. Fast, tall with great jumping ability and big sure hands, he owned corner backs throughout the CFL. he played 6 seasons in BC (though the last was truly forgettable). He is 3rd on the all time list behind Simon and Young with 522 catches for 6690 yards and 57 TD"s. He averaged a TD every 6.5 catches well ahead of the next closest competitor.
how does he stack up in the intangible department.
Game Changer- Without doubt a go to guy in the clutch
Courage- As a receiver undoubtedly, though he was used more as a perimeter player than an over the middle catcher. He never cringed that I ever saw
He made everybody around look better drawing double coverage and making impossible catches on less than purrfect Dewalt passes.
He lit up the stands, his teammates and his coaches with his play. he was a highlight reel in each game he played.
Fernandez went on to a very good career with the NFL Raiders where he holds the highest average catch 19.6 for a single season.
This was Ackles all time free agent find. Fernandez was working at Walmart or somewhere similar, after dropping out of college for poor scholastic results. He had only played one season, I think, of college ball.
Number 3
Geroy Simon SB-WR The only active player in the Top 10. Simon has been a model of consistency and excellence in 11 seasons with the Lions, he has caught 773 passes for 13,722 yards and 90 touchdowns. He has displayed over his career great athletic ability and consistency. Till this year he has maintained a high level in his considerable athletic skills. it seems this year for the first time we are seeing GS on the downside of his illustrious career,.
How does he rate in the intangible department
Courage- In spades, A slot back has to have it and Simon has rarely shirked from a catch
Will to Win-yes very high
The ability to single handedly be a game changer- He has shown this repeatedly throughout his career with clutch catches and game winning TD's
The ability to see the field differently from other players Simon has shown a rare ability to find the open space despite double coverage and constant bumping
The ability to make the players around them rally to them- He has been more of a quiet leader
The ability to make every player around them look better- Paris Jackson and every QB who has played with him has benefited from Simon being on the field with him
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play.- The man has been a high light reel his whole career.
One of the things to admire about Geroy is his career tenacity. He was cut 6 times (i think) before becoming a starter with the Lions. Also he the most meticulous and best dressed in uniform player to ever wear the BC lions colors. No one looks better wearing the uniform than Geroy. In this regard he is the Jerry Rice of the CFL. He will definitely go to the CFL hall of Fame and deservedly so.
Number 2
Doug Flutie QB I know, I know only two seasons, how can he make this team. You just had to watch this man on the field to realize he was so much better than all the players around him. He was magnetic to your eyes. He could do so much. He had the quickness and ball handling skills of a point guard. he was an excellent runner and passer. he was absolutely amazing every time he did something with the ball. When you look at all of the intangibles no player had them as completely as Doug Flutie. he would score 10/10 on each of the below intangible skils. In some he would score 11/10
Will to win,
Courage,
The ability to single handedly be a game changer,
The ability to see the field differently from other players
The ability to make the players around them rally to them
The ability to make every player around them look better
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play
From Wikipedia
His career CFL statistics include 41,355 passing yards and 270 touchdowns. He holds the professional football record of 6,619 yards passing in a single season. He still holds four of the CFL's top five highest single-season completion marks, including a record 466 in 1991. His 48 touchdown passes in 1994 remains a CFL record. He earned three Grey Cup MVP awards, and was named the CFL's Most Outstanding Player a record six times (1991–1994, and 1996–1997). He was 99-27 in games he played in. He was nominated the #1 player to ever play in the CFL in the TSN poll of top 50 players.
he was a star at Boston college, in USFL he was arguably the best player, a starter in the NFL for Buffalo, he played till he was over 40 years old
This was the forgettable Lary Kuharich's enduring contribution to the CFL. It was surprising to me that Obie did not fight harder to pay DF the money he wanted to stay here. The owner Pezim let him slip away and watched attendance drop 5000/game the next season. He would have brought many grey cups to BC and probably would have sustained the fan base and solidified ownership.
Number 1
Willie Fleming RB Fifty one years ago is a long time ago. That was the 1959 season when Fleming dawned the uniform of he BC Lions. You think maybe your mind embellishes the greatness of players from this era. This era was a special and magical time. It was a time before the AFL/NFL rivalry drove salaries beyond what CFL teams could pay. Before the 1960 establishment of the AFL, the CFL could compete with the NFL on salaries and often did bringing stars like Jackie Parker, Johnny Bright, Leo Lewis, Sam Etcheverry and Hal Patterson to play and star in the CFL.
Willie Fleming was small about 5'9" and 180 lbs, but he played bigger and faster than any player in the CFL ever has. and probably ever will again. I will make my case.
First of all- Bobby Ackles called Willie Fleming not only the greatest player he ever had, but the greatest player he ever saw in over 50 years of evaluating talent. Remember Ackles, drafted Emmit Smith, the all time leading rusher in the NFL for the Dallas Cowboys. Ackles saw literally ten's of thousands of players over his 50 year career in the NFL and CFL. Many went to the hall of Fame. RB's like Simpson, Sayers Sanders, and Dickerson passed his line of sight.
Ackles was emphatic Fleming was the best of them all.
When asked why Fleming was so good, Ackles said he was so much more athletic and quicker and faster than player in his time or since. It was a god given gift. To look for a comparison today, I can only think of Chris Johnston of the Titans. Fleming was the long ball home run player of all time like CJ is today.
Here are some of the numbers that make the case for WF. Some of these records will never be broken.
All time Rushing leader for the BC Lions
868 Rushes for 6125 yards
All time combined yardage leader for the BC lions
6125 Rushing 4480 Pass Receptions 1860 kick returns=12,465 total yards combined
All Time TD Leader
87 Tds in 7 years
#4 All time scoring, #1 by Non kicker
523 points
Leader-Season yards per rush average
9.7 yds per carry (CFL Record)
Leader Career average Yards per catch
19.4 yards
Leader-Single season average yards per Catch
24.3 yards
Leader- Receiving yards by Running back
4480
Of the 5 longest runs in BC Lions history all of them have Fleming's name beside them
109 yards -CFL record
98 yards
97 yards-three different times
***No season Fleming played in had more than 16 games. Two less than played today. This makes his records even more outstanding.
By any measure this man was amazing. He played so much faster than all those around him, they looked like they were standing still. I was at Clarke Stadium in Edmonton 1964 on Oct 27. BC had the ball on the one yard line. a simple handoff from Kapp to Fleming. Fleming looked like he had been fired from a rocket. He slipped through the hole made a quick move and started opening up space between him and defenders by the time he was on the 10. 109 yards later he was in the end zone with everyone 20-30 yards behind.
Some of his shorter runs and runs after catches were even more fun to Watch. He could reverse direction and cut like Barry Sanders, yet I am certain he was even faster. No one could get more than a hand on him as he twisted and dodged at lightning speed. The man could catch like a WR leading the team in pass receptions/yardage 5 times.
I think his greatest measure was he was he scored once every 10-11 times he touched the ball through out his career, This is an amazing stat for a running back.
How do his intangibles measure up.
Will to win-hard to know if it was this or his supreme skill set that made him so great
Courage- yes he was a very small man in a big man's game. Fearless
The ability to single handedly be a game changer- the best ever to wear BC Colors
The ability to see the field differently from other players- he not only found space, he made space
The ability to make the players around them rally to them -
The ability to make every player around them look better- No doubt about this
The ability to electrify fellow players, Coaches and fans with their skills and play- Maybe the best ever in the CFL.
Like most running backs their careers are cut short by injury, but even in 1965 Willie averaged 6.4 yards per carry.
i would love to see him against todays players, but that is not to be.
So there you have it. Please wade in with your comments. I have made mine
Willie Fleming is the Best Lion ever!!
My favorite Leos have been:
Ron Morris-a slotback who also played defensive back, Ron Morris was a talented player who could play a number of positions. He helped us to our Grey Cup victory in 1964.
Willie Fleming-his speed and moves were incredible..I think he has a 9 plus yard rushing average in his career here.
Pat Claridge: as tough a tight end as you will ever see play the game.
James 'Quick' Parker-his speed and low trajectory enabled him to get to the quarterback almost as fast as a blink of an eye.
Kevin Konar: A smart, tough linebacker who could hit a ton and and played smart pass coverage.
Barrin Miles He was a ball hawk who was as smart and cagey a defensive back as we've ever seen in a Leo uniform, as well as a great special teamer.
Rob Murphy-Murphy created such an interest in offensive line play, due to his aggressive nature and changed the culture of our offensive line when he arrived.
Cameron Wake: Wish he had played longer for us..he was special.
Doug Flutie-he was such an exciting, smart player. I have never been so sad as a Leo fan when he left us
Korey Banks. The guy does it all...outstanding tackler, can blitz and get to the quarterback, smart defensvie back and one of the best man cover guys to play the game..now a nickel back..his versatility is shining through.
John Henry White. He was such a good inside runner, a great blocker, outstanding hands....and he brought it all on every play.
Carl Kidd...my all-time favorite Leo. He was inspirational, tough as nails, and had a great sense of humour. He played the game with such passion.
Ron Morris-a slotback who also played defensive back, Ron Morris was a talented player who could play a number of positions. He helped us to our Grey Cup victory in 1964.
Willie Fleming-his speed and moves were incredible..I think he has a 9 plus yard rushing average in his career here.
Pat Claridge: as tough a tight end as you will ever see play the game.
James 'Quick' Parker-his speed and low trajectory enabled him to get to the quarterback almost as fast as a blink of an eye.
Kevin Konar: A smart, tough linebacker who could hit a ton and and played smart pass coverage.
Barrin Miles He was a ball hawk who was as smart and cagey a defensive back as we've ever seen in a Leo uniform, as well as a great special teamer.
Rob Murphy-Murphy created such an interest in offensive line play, due to his aggressive nature and changed the culture of our offensive line when he arrived.
Cameron Wake: Wish he had played longer for us..he was special.
Doug Flutie-he was such an exciting, smart player. I have never been so sad as a Leo fan when he left us
Korey Banks. The guy does it all...outstanding tackler, can blitz and get to the quarterback, smart defensvie back and one of the best man cover guys to play the game..now a nickel back..his versatility is shining through.
John Henry White. He was such a good inside runner, a great blocker, outstanding hands....and he brought it all on every play.
Carl Kidd...my all-time favorite Leo. He was inspirational, tough as nails, and had a great sense of humour. He played the game with such passion.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
It was 109 yards against Edmonton in September 1994. The Lions didn't win the game but that was one of my favourite plays of all time.sj-roc wrote:I remember that game (1994, maybe 95), on the last play of the first half, when he returned a MFG all the way for a TD.B.C.FAN wrote:I can relate to this category:strait8 wrote:Unsung Players who maybe only I appreciated
john Henry White
Sean Millington
Javy Glatt
Jason Kralt
Spencer McLennan
Kevin Konar
I could go on but the names would become too obscure.
-
WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Willie Fleming
When he broke the long TD run vs Garney Henley we knew we would win the Grey Cup.
Joe Kapp
He owned Vancouver for a while.
Nub Beamer
Hard rock fullback
Don Matthews
He inspired his players. Innovative. Way ahead of the times.
Lui
Best kicker ever. Anywhere.
Quick Parker
He defined rush end for all time.
Cam Wake
Astonishing player. Nice guy. Loves his time here.
Dave and Casey
Travis ... Just the way he plays QB.
Geroy
Joe Smith ... Power, moves and speed. Heard different music than everyone else.
Martell Mallett ... Just the way he ran
Manny ... The way he can adjust and go get the ball.
Rob Murphy
Made #56 look good. That ain't easy.
Korey Banks ... Playmaker
Clermont in his prime.
Bobby Ackles
As much or more than anyone, he was and is the B.C. Lions.
When he broke the long TD run vs Garney Henley we knew we would win the Grey Cup.
Joe Kapp
He owned Vancouver for a while.
Nub Beamer
Hard rock fullback
Don Matthews
He inspired his players. Innovative. Way ahead of the times.
Lui
Best kicker ever. Anywhere.
Quick Parker
He defined rush end for all time.
Cam Wake
Astonishing player. Nice guy. Loves his time here.
Dave and Casey
Travis ... Just the way he plays QB.
Geroy
Joe Smith ... Power, moves and speed. Heard different music than everyone else.
Martell Mallett ... Just the way he ran
Manny ... The way he can adjust and go get the ball.
Rob Murphy
Made #56 look good. That ain't easy.
Korey Banks ... Playmaker
Clermont in his prime.
Bobby Ackles
As much or more than anyone, he was and is the B.C. Lions.
