We have been blessed on the Lions with these 2 personnel guys in Wally's time here.
My impressions ...
LBs ... Roy has a knack of finding really good CFL style LBs, the latest of which are Elimimian and Leonard. OB found Jamall Johnson and Markeith Knowlton, and that is dayum good also.
DBs ... OB: Marsh, Phillips. Roy: Hyland, Reddick
D Line ... OB: Wilson, Wake. Roy: no star of that calibre for us yet. And some duds, without naming the names here, as some we have seen this year.
STs ... Roy: Yonus Davis. OB: no star of that calibre.
QBs ... OB: Dickenson, Pierce, Printers, Jackson. Wow. Roy: Did Roy or OB bring Dickenson to Calgary originally? Lulay, Reilly.
RBs ... Anderson, Warren, Smith, Logan, Mallett, Davis.
O Line ... OB: Murphy, Jimenez Roy: Olafioye
Receivers ... OB: for the Lions, this was a weakness under OB. IMO. Roy: Arceneaux, Black, Passmore
............
O'Billovich and Shivers are both Hall of Fame personnel guys IMO, aside from their other GM duties over time.
Just based on what I have seen with their import recruits to the Lions, I would give the edge to OB for D Line and the edge to Roy for receivers. I think both O'Billovich and Shivers are awesome as personnel guys.
..............
Not intended as an extensively researched list at this time. Just quickly brainstormed as I see so many of the players these two men brought here, and about to play on the weekend.
O'Billovich and Shivers: Personnel Guys Extraordinaire
Moderator: Team Captains
-
WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Yes, JH. Many sources and people watching and recommending.JohnHenry wrote:Not to take anything away from the personelle guys, but many of those players were not scouted or recruited by Obie or Shivers. Several others were walk-ons at free agent camps, although some had been previously scouted and were invited to the F.A. camps, like Jordan. Olifoye was found at a F.A. camp in Florida.
Arseneux sent his highlight DVD to the Lions and they invited him to camp. Mallett was recommended by C. Kidd who coached at his college. Wake missed his tryout, but the Lions signed him for camp anyways due to his highlight video. S. Logan was recommended to B. Ackles due his connection with the Dolphins, etc.
Let's also not forget Richard Wade, who is Obie's right hand man and Western U.S. scout who discovered many of those players for the Lions.
But I'm thinking that by far most of the tryout guys are there by invite from the Lions. Based on the film work done by Shivers. He gets countless film sent to him. Shivers is the personnel guy, after all, but it is not all on him.
Someone like Reilly may have been on the neg list for up to a couple of years.WestCoastJoe wrote:Yes, JH. Many sources and people watching and recommending.JohnHenry wrote:Not to take anything away from the personelle guys, but many of those players were not scouted or recruited by Obie or Shivers. Several others were walk-ons at free agent camps, although some had been previously scouted and were invited to the F.A. camps, like Jordan. Olifoye was found at a F.A. camp in Florida.
Arseneux sent his highlight DVD to the Lions and they invited him to camp. Mallett was recommended by C. Kidd who coached at his college. Wake missed his tryout, but the Lions signed him for camp anyways due to his highlight video. S. Logan was recommended to B. Ackles due his connection with the Dolphins, etc.
Let's also not forget Richard Wade, who is Obie's right hand man and Western U.S. scout who discovered many of those players for the Lions.
But I'm thinking that by far most of the tryout guys are there by invite from the Lions. Based on the film work done by Shivers. He gets countless film sent to him. Shivers is the personnel guy, after all, but it is not all on him.
As for Wake, he would have never even got a look by the Lions except for a twist of fate, as another highly touted DE that was expected in TC decided last minute not to venture North, opening up a quick spot for Wake to fill, as IR.
Entertainment value = an all time low
-
joe kapp22
- Legend
- Posts: 2754
- Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:26 pm
JohnHenry wrote:Not to take anything away from the personelle guys, but many of those players were not scouted or recruited by Obie or Shivers. Several others were walk-ons at free agent camps, although some had been previously scouted and were invited to the F.A. camps, like Jordan. Olifoye was found at a F.A. camp in Florida.
Arseneux sent his highlight DVD to the Lions and they invited him to camp. Mallett was recommended by C. Kidd who coached at his college. Wake missed his tryout, but the Lions signed him for camp anyways due to his highlight video. S. Logan was recommended to B. Ackles due his connection with the Dolphins, etc.
Let's also not forget Richard Wade, who is Obie's right hand man and Western U.S. scout who discovered many of those players for the Lions.
Richard Wade has a really good reputation, before I'd heard of Shivers I had run across his name, last time I checked he was working for the Ticats?
There is a lot of cross pollination between the Dolphins and CFL due to Murphy's son working in the NFL.
Know the smallest things and the biggest things, the shallowest things and the deepest things. As if it were a straight road mapped out on the ground ... These things cannot be explained in detail. From one thing, know ten thousand things. When you attain the Way of strategy there will not be one thing you cannot see. You must study hard.
I take nothing away from these guys. They understand the type of player required in the CFL. You look at the top four personnel guys in Canada. i do not mean just scouts I mean guys who bring value to the team through the recruits they find from scouts camps relationships etc. they would be Popp, Tillman, OB, Shivers. These guys bring in replacement parts at the right time and price to make teams competitive.
After reading Ackles book, he talks about the value of relationships. That was what Jackie Parker taught him when he was here. Printers came recommended by a close friend newspaper reporter in dallas, stefan logan from the training staff in miami.
The thing that OB and Shivers have is years of experience and deep contact list at colleges and professional level. They use those so well.
One fact of their brilliance is not arguable. In the last ten years the amount of rookie of the year finalists in BC and winners is probably more than all the other teams combined. Add that to finding journeyman pros who were purrfect for the Canadian game, Murphy, Kidd, etc. Also their ability to find quarterbacks Dickenson, Garcia, Lulay, Durrant etc is unmatched in the CFL.
I would also venture to say more Shivers/OB recruits have gone to the NFL than any other GM can do.
Shivers has done a great job this year after a slow start coming back from being semiretired for a year. players like Davis, Olafuiye, Eliminian, Reddick, Hyland, Black, Passmore, Leonard, and even Geathers, show that when looking at highlight tapes or camps, they are evaluating properly and making great decisions.
To contrast look at the argonauts over the last ten years. Talk about a talent train wreck. How long has Rita been in the game here in Canada. Just no comparison. They bring Barker in and he takes over personnel, he is making a difference and moving them in the right direction.
In the CFL consistent stream of talent is important especially when combined with a strong stable core of Canadian talent. that is the winning combo here.
I look forward to seeing Buono and Shivers finish the job in 2011. They have changed 24 roster places this year. My guess is next year about 8-10 changes especially on the Canadian side will finish the job and make BC an elite competitor once again. Aging Canadians like Wilson and Angus better be looking over their shoulder.
Geroy will certainly be enter his last year next year and a successor has to be found. Buono record with great players like Allan Pitts is basically ruthless evaluation of their of their slipping skills and a not so gentle push out the door. It will be up to Shivers to find the next Winston Dressler, or will Arcenaux or Black step up.
They should have a low to low middle round first draft choice depending how far they go/if they go to the playoffs.
They will need more Canadian depth at Center, definitely at WR, as well as DL for rotation and one more DB. I expect them to be more active in the free agent market in the middle level for Canadian talent. you might even see a trade or two this year as some excess people are moved for draft choices or depth for certain positions.
After reading Ackles book, he talks about the value of relationships. That was what Jackie Parker taught him when he was here. Printers came recommended by a close friend newspaper reporter in dallas, stefan logan from the training staff in miami.
The thing that OB and Shivers have is years of experience and deep contact list at colleges and professional level. They use those so well.
One fact of their brilliance is not arguable. In the last ten years the amount of rookie of the year finalists in BC and winners is probably more than all the other teams combined. Add that to finding journeyman pros who were purrfect for the Canadian game, Murphy, Kidd, etc. Also their ability to find quarterbacks Dickenson, Garcia, Lulay, Durrant etc is unmatched in the CFL.
I would also venture to say more Shivers/OB recruits have gone to the NFL than any other GM can do.
Shivers has done a great job this year after a slow start coming back from being semiretired for a year. players like Davis, Olafuiye, Eliminian, Reddick, Hyland, Black, Passmore, Leonard, and even Geathers, show that when looking at highlight tapes or camps, they are evaluating properly and making great decisions.
To contrast look at the argonauts over the last ten years. Talk about a talent train wreck. How long has Rita been in the game here in Canada. Just no comparison. They bring Barker in and he takes over personnel, he is making a difference and moving them in the right direction.
In the CFL consistent stream of talent is important especially when combined with a strong stable core of Canadian talent. that is the winning combo here.
I look forward to seeing Buono and Shivers finish the job in 2011. They have changed 24 roster places this year. My guess is next year about 8-10 changes especially on the Canadian side will finish the job and make BC an elite competitor once again. Aging Canadians like Wilson and Angus better be looking over their shoulder.
Geroy will certainly be enter his last year next year and a successor has to be found. Buono record with great players like Allan Pitts is basically ruthless evaluation of their of their slipping skills and a not so gentle push out the door. It will be up to Shivers to find the next Winston Dressler, or will Arcenaux or Black step up.
They should have a low to low middle round first draft choice depending how far they go/if they go to the playoffs.
They will need more Canadian depth at Center, definitely at WR, as well as DL for rotation and one more DB. I expect them to be more active in the free agent market in the middle level for Canadian talent. you might even see a trade or two this year as some excess people are moved for draft choices or depth for certain positions.
Willie Fleming is the Best Lion ever!!
-
WestCoastJoe
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 17721
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm
Terrific post, strait. So much detail and perspective. 
You should post more often.
I've been fortunate to chat with Shivers a few times over the years. He gets so much film its unbelievable. I believe a guy who wants to come to a tryout camp will need a helluva film clip and/or recommendation. You dont want a lot of duds or hopeless wannabes at these camps. I'm thinking it's more like an invitation camp, than just anybody can come camp.
Roy said when he saw Logan's film, the first play was from the 1 yard line. Roy's reaction before seeing the play was like "No. It cant be. Oh my god." Yep. 99 yards. TD. So although many eyes and people are working on the talent pipeline, I would say Roy, OB, Popp and Tillman run their personnel shops and most, if not all the merchandise meets their approval.
Blitz has also spoken very highly of Richard Wade. OB of course took him to Hamilton.
You should post more often.
I've been fortunate to chat with Shivers a few times over the years. He gets so much film its unbelievable. I believe a guy who wants to come to a tryout camp will need a helluva film clip and/or recommendation. You dont want a lot of duds or hopeless wannabes at these camps. I'm thinking it's more like an invitation camp, than just anybody can come camp.
Roy said when he saw Logan's film, the first play was from the 1 yard line. Roy's reaction before seeing the play was like "No. It cant be. Oh my god." Yep. 99 yards. TD. So although many eyes and people are working on the talent pipeline, I would say Roy, OB, Popp and Tillman run their personnel shops and most, if not all the merchandise meets their approval.
Blitz has also spoken very highly of Richard Wade. OB of course took him to Hamilton.