2006 Canadian Federal Election - who will you vote for?

[hutch]

well, it seems there was a number of crooked actions by a number of liberals, but is there any evidence\proof that Martin himself did anything crooked, or knew of anything crooked and looked the other way??

Canada Steamship Lines..

what about it??

What about it? If you have to ask that then there is no point in answering because I gather you are a Martin supporter. Or am I wrong?

[KnowItAll]

Canada Steamship Lines..

what about it??

What about it? If you have to ask that then there is no point in answering because I gather you are a Martin supporter. Or am I wrong?

nope. Just trying to be objective. All I have heard is that Martin owns some ships that he chose to fly another flag to avoid taxes. Is that all, or is there more. Does he not have the legal right to use a different flag. If not, why wasnt he arrested or something?

I have this natural tendacy to support people, specially leaders, until proven guilty. I hoped Nixon was innocent, even though I didnt give a crap about him. Same with Clinton.

[Toppy Vann]

There were sure a lot of far off predictions from the actual numbers. I find it distressing that people even after an election are still calling people crooks for something as inconsequential as owning a successful business that has its head office and many personnel in Montreal while registering ships in other nations where the tax regimes are lower.

Shipping is a highly competitive industry and if your costs are too high how on earth can you compete with companies around the world if you don't at least follow suit.

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.

I assume that all the Canadian resource exploration companies that are doing their drilling and exploration in low tax places like Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, Peru, Argentina, Mongolia, China and Nigeria are crooked? The last time I checked these companies are employing Canadian geologists, office workers, lawyers, administrators, etc and these people cash their pay cheques in Canada just as the head office personnel of Paul Martin's business do in Quebec.

People with strong views about politics where they call EVERY member of the opposing party crooks and criminals very much reminds me of over zealous nasty sports fans who call down opposition teams and opponents showing no respect for the game itself.

Interestingly, if you look at the personal relations between civil minded people in any political party who respect the democratic process for what it is with all its warts and problems you will find that at the heart of their relations is respect for those who hold their views and those who don't.
It is the same with sports fans and at times below senior levels, some sports teams.

Yesterday, I spent the day as a Poll Captain from 10 to 8:30 pm last night when the vote in our seven polls was all counted. Reps of all parties were courteous, friendly and helpful to each other as we were few and there were lots of polls there to cover and keep track of the vote on. At the end of the night, I went around the room and shook hands with the poll clerks (paid elections staff) and I was shocked that they thanked me for my professionalism and how it made that jobs easier. At first I just thought that the young woman was just being friendful, but at the next poll team (they work in pairs) I got a similar reply. When I asked why they were complimenting me they said that last time there was major squabbling among the scrutineers of one party that bordered on screaming and severe distress.

As the polls closed scrutineers from the NDP and Tories both said to me they were worried about what might happen now as our riding was going to be a close race and they feared conflict. My point to them was that we might find ourselves disagreeing on a vote but they sure won't going to get less than civility from me as I respect those who take their time and get involved regardless of their party. I was proud to see so many voting that day and so many young new voters and wasn't about to engage in behaviour that our candidate himself would never take part in.

It worked out great - two ballots for an opponent party were objected to by me. The rule is the returning officer/supervisor makes the call but if you still object to that ballot it is then sealed in a separate package and recorded in case of a further recount. There was NOT one sound from anyone complaining or questioning my motives on the call. It was decided not to count it and the party losing the vote was fine with it as there was no one there raising tensions. It was done politely and respectfully and remember, we didn't know that that ballot might not be a key one in the race as we only knew that the vote was close in those seven polls.

I ran federally some years ago and the Friday before the election I did a speaking event and went for coffee with the guy who won the race. It was a pleasant exchange and coffee and we wished each other well and didn't speak again until I went to his HQ and was asked to make a concession speech to the crowd that was loudly cheered - much to my surprise. I had actually shaken the winner's hand and was leaving their victory party when they chased us down the street saying they wanted me to speak to the crowd. That stayed with me for all these years as politics shouldn't have to be the blood sport that it so often turns out to be.

If there is one lesson I have learned from my father - that is being civil to others no matter what your disagreements on policy are. It sure is better than being mired in your hatred and anger for an opponent, even if you will never meet for coffee or a drink.

[TheLionKing]

Canada Steamship Lines..

what about it??

What about it? If you have to ask that then there is no point in answering because I gather you are a Martin supporter. Or am I wrong?

Insinuation, no proof whatsoever.

[hutch]

maybe I'm the only one that doesn't think it's right that the government awards between 400 - 600 million dollar contracts( per year ) to the PM's company in which he moved out of Canada to avoid paying taxes, the same taxes that the rest of us pay.

[MacNews]

...Shipping is a highly competitive industry and if your costs are too high how on earth can you compete with companies around the world if you don't at least follow suit.

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

That's a valid arguement, except for one thing: Martin was Prime Minister, and I expect better from my PM.

[CB123]

except for one thing: Martin was Prime Minister, and I expect better from my PM

He was Prime Minister, Now he is just a normal MP, which I also would expect better from.

[KnowItAll]

...Shipping is a highly competitive industry and if your costs are too high how on earth can you compete with companies around the world if you don't at least follow suit.

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

That's a valid arguement, except for one thing: Martin was Prime Minister, and I expect better from my PM.

you can expect better from him on moral grounds, but we have no business calling him a crook until he is arrested and convicted. IMO

[Rammer]

WE didn't arrest Mulroney, don't expect to see Martin in the sin bin either. But we all know what absolute power leads to ....

[Toppy Vann]

...Shipping is a highly competitive industry and if your costs are too high how on earth can you compete with companies around the world if you don't at least follow suit.

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

That's a valid arguement, except for one thing: Martin was Prime Minister, and I expect better from my PM.

First off, his business is in a blind trust. He has not had active dealings in that company for years.

Are you also suggesting that Canadians not buy stock in companies outside of Canada or that if you want to be a politician you should put your business in a financial position that it won't survive and all those families in Canada who get cheques from your company are all laid off?

Canadian companies and hundreds of them from BC are doing business in other low tax nations where the weather allows their drill crews to work all year round unlike many parts of Canada. So what? Their efforts are paying salaries here.

If you don't want successful business people to enter politics say so but don't call people crooks for that.

People (not the above post I quote) might keep in mind that there are numerous lawsuits from posting on Stockhouse bull boards and calling people crooks. The anonymity of the internet is not an argument that works if you libel someone.

[LFITQ]

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

Actually Canada is notorious for knocking those who are successful and trying to keep them down ...

[Toppy Vann]

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

Actually Canada is notorious for knocking those who are successful and trying to keep them down ...

LFITQ - you are right on that sadly. I participate in a private forum on stocks and it was funny to read some of the same criticisms as on here only to have a guy from Calgary note that his brother had just dumped on him for being negative when the two of them had just enjoyed a two year run in the markets and in their work in the oil and gas exploration that is unprecedented!!! Here was a self proclaimed new millionaire calling down the gov't and the country.

Another guy posted that one of our favourite oil experts and mine too was out from Calgary giving a speech last week in Kelowna to a group of professionals and noted for the crowd how great it will be Monday when we have a new government (he wants offshore BC oil exploration now). The guy said you could have heard a cricket in the room during the pause for the expected applause. It is not that they might not have voted for a change in gov't - many obviously did as the interior has lots of Conservatives returning. What this guy was saying is that he is doing fantastic right now and he sees all green lights ahead in the markets for some years to come. He is not wanting a lot of change that affect him making money (I am not suggesting that a new gov't is going to be bad).

The truth of the mineral exploration market is that we are on the verge of a run that many of us will never again see in our life times.

Gold for example could top $600 an ounce this year and Ian Telfer of Goldcorp was telling a dinner crowd that you might just want to start pricing your future gold projects at a $1,000 an ounce. This gold run will be higher and stronger than in Jan 1987 when it hit $850 an ounce. Guess what? The good news is that Canadian companies and investors at home and abroad are poised to bring vast somes of new wealth to the coffers of individuals, businesses and governments. They are doing this now.

This is not just a run in precious metals like gold and silver soon to follow. It will be in the base metals too.

In gold the Chinese people are now being allowed to buy this. This is going to drive demand for physical gold as well as countries are now wanting to buy more gold as they fear a collapse of the US dollar and want a hedge in case the US can't inflate itself out of its massive twin deficits of government spending (rising debt) and the trade deficit.

Base metal demand from China is huge and inventories in zinc and copper are falling. The next new copper mine is some three years away.

Uranium exploration and prices are soaring and Canadian companies during work in uranium friendly countries (Canada) and the United States are booming.

Grove Energy is a company that is based in Vancouver but is drilling offshore Italy, the UK/North Sea, Tunisia, Romania, etc. Is that unCanadian? Should they like MacNews suggests never run for high office as they don't meet our higher standard? No. Not at all. They are creating shareholder value for Canadian stockholders and we pay our taxes in Canada just like Mr. Martin and the employees of his steam ship company do.

Canadians can sit on the sidelines or get on the gravy train. If you wait until your neighbours and co-workers are giving you tips, it will be too late. In fact, if my neighbour who is not in the market starts feeding me tips, that will be the signal to get on the trigger and start taking profits.

I am not suggesting that new investors all of a sudden start jumping into the market. There are lots of safe ways to get into investing through your rrsps/mutual funds and a good advisor will help direct you as investing on your own is not for the faint of heart as Blitz can attest.

What I am suggesting is that we can sit around and decry our government and wallow in the problems of the federal Liberals or we can get involved and actually make some money. Oh by the way, the income trust issue. Those who lost 30% in income trusts will tell you that they have made all that back and then some on the gov't announcement that dividends are getting better tax treatment. I post on the board where the CTV story came from that people were tipped on the announcement and bought big. The reporter asked one poster where he got his post info from as it looked like the same language as the gov't release later that day. He posted to the CTV post that the language in his post is the language that investors use ALL THE TIME. Other posters were astonished that the CTV was there trying to dig up a story where there was none.

If you didn't know what was going to be announced on income trusts at the same time you knew the government was falling, then you should have been buying mutual funds as you have no idea how markets work. The RCMP investigation into this is a joke. They have no idea how the major investment houses think and act. You just need to watch an hour of ROBTV - Report on Business Television - out of Toronto and you would have heard the guests there stating categorically what the government was faced with as they were falling. By the way, Mr. Harper's government will be faced with the same reality as Mr. Martin. The Finance ministry staff will be pressing hard on the income trust issues as there is still not a completely level playing field between them and other public traded companies. If our largest insurers like Manulife and Sun Life were forming income trusts - they won't - we would have very serious problems in our equity markets. Why should those companies be faced with inequities between income trusts? These companies promote growth and expansion including into the huge Asian market - check Manulife out sometime. UnCanadian...lol.

The cold hard reality is that income trusts have the potential to harm our economy dramatically in the future. What they are is a way to get the cash (profits) out of the company without paying corporte income tax to shareholders who will later pay the taxes on the money they get in their accounts. This is good in theory as investors take those profits and reduce them with losses on other stocks.

What is bad is that if every company does this, then there will be NO more reinvestment in the business. Some oil and gas producers suit this but these are not the explorers. They are channels for distributing profits. We need to ensure that new oil and gas reserves continue to be found.

Businesses that are not like this who want to become income trusts are those that can't use that money then to grow and develop more jobs and productivity as they distribute their profits monthly to their investors. If they reduce the payouts the stock price underlying all of that will plunge.

All in all we have a great country and a promising future. I see the next run in the mineral and oil and gas exploration business to unlike anything we've seen before.

[TheLionKing]

...Shipping is a highly competitive industry and if your costs are too high how on earth can you compete with companies around the world if you don't at least follow suit.

Since when it is a crime in Canada or in any nation in the free world to build a successful business including ownership in other nations.
...

That's a valid arguement, except for one thing: Martin was Prime Minister, and I expect better from my PM.

First off, his business is in a blind trust. He has not had active dealings in that company for years.

Are you also suggesting that Canadians not buy stock in companies outside of Canada or that if you want to be a politician you should put your business in a financial position that it won't survive and all those families in Canada who get cheques from your company are all laid off?

Canadian companies and hundreds of them from BC are doing business in other low tax nations where the weather allows their drill crews to work all year round unlike many parts of Canada. So what? Their efforts are paying salaries here.

If you don't want successful business people to enter politics say so but don't call people crooks for that.

People (not the above post I quote) might keep in mind that there are numerous lawsuits from posting on Stockhouse bull boards and calling people crooks. The anonymity of the internet is not an argument that works if you libel someone.

Good post Toppy!

[KnowItAll]

If Toppy posted on 13thman, he would have a thousand beers already for just that one post, heh heh

[MacNews]

First off, his business is in a blind trust. He has not had active dealings in that company for years.

When Martin finally gave his shares to his sons in a blind trust he still met with company execs a couple of times.

Blind trust

Did Canada?s finance minister for a decade ever make decisions that benefited his own company? The way politicians normally deal with that issue is by either selling their assets or putting them in a blind trust run by a trustee who manages them without input from their owner until such time as he becomes a private citizen again.

But Canada?s finance minister did not place CSL in a blind trust. Instead, he set up a ?blind? management agreement with 20/20 vision. Under the agreement, he was allowed to meet with corporate officers of CSL on a dozen occasions with the full approval of that paragon of public virtue, ethics poodle Howard Wilson.

Fortunately, we have it on Mr. Martin?s word that he never used those meetings to instruct CSL?s officers how to conduct the business. At least now, we no longer have to worry about Mr. Martin?s conflict of interests as he has divested CSL to new owners ? his sons.