2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

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Should Scotland separate from the UK? Yes or No?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:13 pm

Aye ... Separate
1
25%
Nay ... Stay
3
75%
 
Total votes: 4
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WestCoastJoe
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2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

Scotland votes.

Should they separate?

Results soon.


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Robbie
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Re: Scotland voting on separation

This was an area that I could never fully understand before. :dizzy: Perhaps someone can shed some light on this.

Is Scotland (along with Wales, Northern Ireland, and England) an independent country already or is not a country by itself and instead a division of the country known as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - simply called the UK? I've heard conflicting stories. David Cameron is the Prime Minister of the UK, so in that sense the UK government is above the Scottish Parliament. However, the relationship between Scotland and the UK is certainly NOT the same as the Provinces in Canada or the States in the USA. Internationally speaking, Scotland already has a lot of independence especially when it comes to international sporting events. Although in the Olympics all divisions compete as Great Britain, other tournaments such as the FIFA World Cup, Rugby World Cup, and Cricket World Cup both Scotland and England have sent separate teams. I've never heard of a Canadian Province/American State being referred to in international tournaments.

And socially, if I were to visit Europe and someone were to ask me where I'm from, I'd say I'm Canadian/American and not British Columbian/Washingtonian. But I've spoken to people from Scotland before and they prefer to identify themselves as Scot or Scottish as opposed to British or Briton.

So if Scotland does become independent exactly how much different will it be now when they already have a lot of autonomy?
And if the rest of the UK refuses to allow Scotland to become independent, I wonder if it trigger a civil war again between England and Scotland like they did several times before in history, perhaps the most notable being the reign of Sir William Wallace portrayed in the movie Braveheart.
Last edited by Robbie on Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: Scotland voting on separation

No civil war, Robbie.

At a quick read, your post interprets the situation pretty well.

Even back in the early 1980s, visiting Scotland, I gpt the impression that the Scots were not all that fired up to be separate. Mixed feelings, as shown in this vote.


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TheLionKing
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Re: Scotland voting on separation

54% No
46% Yes


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Robbie
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Re: Scotland voting on separation

While Scotland did not separate from the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom did indeed separate from the European Union by a narrow vote:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Leave - 17,410,742 - 51.89%
Remain - 16,141,241 - 48.11%

Prime Minister David Cameron will be stepping down soon. Let's see how it will affect Canada. Currently the EU is Canada's 2nd biggest trading partner the UK is 5th.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: Scotland voting on separation

Robbie wrote:While Scotland did not separate from the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom did indeed separate from the European Union by a narrow vote:
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Leave - 17,410,742 - 51.89%
Remain - 16,141,241 - 48.11%

Prime Minister David Cameron will be stepping down soon. Let's see how it will affect Canada. Currently the EU is Canada's 2nd biggest trading partner the UK is 5th.
It is big news, of course, Robbie. The Scots seemed to chicken out last time. The Brits did not chicken out regarding leaving the EU. But the Scots may well value membership in the EU enough to call for another referendum on leaving the UK.

My opinion ... Mistake for Cameron to call for the referendum in the first place. Reminds me of lawyers in cross examination. Don't ask a question unless you already know the answer. He miscalculated badly. Now there is a huge mess. Huge. Mostly for England, as the dominant member of the UK, the one that led the charge to leave, and whatever politicians get to lead it during the very complicated divorce proceedings. Not so much for the rest of the world.

My opinion again ... Some diminishment for the UK. Economy. Prestige. Wealth. Size: it might lose Scotland. Apparently immigration itself might not be affected that much. And it seems to me that immigration was the sometimes hidden agenda for many that voted to Leave.

There is backtracking already from public figures who advocated to Leave the EU.

Just IMO ... I ain't there, but I do have relatives in Scotland and the Republic of Ireland.

Could be a controversial issue. No offense intended. Just opinions with many sides to the issue.
........

More bad news. England loses to Iceland in UEFA Euro tournament.


John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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KnowItAll
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexi

I would like to see northern Ireland separate from uk as well. Guess wales would be out of the question.


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Robbie
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

British lawmakers on Tuesday rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's proposed deal to exit the European Union by a resounding 432-202 vote. Maybe UK won't leave after all.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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WestCoastJoe
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

Robbie wrote: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:45 pm British lawmakers on Tuesday rejected Prime Minister Theresa May's proposed deal to exit the European Union by a resounding 432-202 vote. Maybe UK won't leave after all.
If they do not get their stuff together, they will leave. A hard exit. With no agreement in place on how to exit either internally or with the EU. It will be very bad for the U.K.

Even with an agreement on how to ''divorce,'' it will be bad for the U.K.

Best hope in my opinion. New Prime Minister. New referendum. Stay in the European Union.

But I expect another referendum will bring the same results. Exit.

Just IMO ...


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Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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Toppy Vann
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

The Conservative minority gov't problem is both the narrow Brexit vote to leave vote as well as lack of cohesion and actual enemies of their Leader and PM within including the blonde headed jackass Boris Johnson..

The Leader of Labour today looked kind of sheepish in the non-confidence vote when PM May hammered him for an interview recently where he was asked 5 times on his views about Brexit - the issue the Labour Leader says is the most important issue facing the UK. While I get the politics of Labour's non committal now - it suggests that they have the same problem as the Tories - not all on the same page.

Thereas May as PM seems to be boxed in - the EU won't help her and her own party and her country are very divided on this Brexit.

The bigger issue it seems than Scotland where the war with England is long done is in Ireland despite the Scots still singing Flower of Scotland at sporting events is Northern Ireland.

CTV reporter was travelling in a taxi where every 2 Km they crossed the border heading from a town to another town. They interviewed those who do not want to go back to the border check points as they used to have with southern republic. SOME fear it could lead to violence again.

The issue on that island is simply this:
There are two main sides:

Nationalists or republicans, who are mainly Catholic, believe the north should join a united, independent Ireland.

Unionists or loyalists, who are often Protestant, think Northern Ireland should stay as part of the United Kingdom.
To complicate this the DUP in Parliament (10 members ) are running the North now IIRC and May needs their support to not lose confidence.

The good news is that it's a parliamentary system so these issues will work out but like WCJ - no BREXIT would be sensible and re-vote given how close it was.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/2 ... -explained


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Sir Purrcival
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

The best solution, UK should let Northern Ireland go it's own way or foster reunification. It would probably be bloody but in the long run it would probably be the best for Ireland. I can completely understand why any sovereign nation would balk at having policy around border control being dictated by a foreign entity. If Brussels is unwilling to flex on that then I believe the Brits have two choices. 1. Go without a deal and starting working on individual trade agreements with Europe. or 2. Call a snap election, insert as a major political plank that if the Cons get in with a majority they will take that as a sign that Britain no longer wants a divorce from the EU and let the referendum results be discarded.


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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

The government motion on no deal Wednesday will, however, state that the house “declines to approve leaving the European Union without a Withdrawal Agreement.” The framing of the motion suggests she will vote for it — or, in other words, against leaving without a deal.
https://www.politico.eu/article/theresa ... t-control/

Just a clip from the latest Brexit discussionn as the pressure mounts, and no way forward has been found, aside from a hard exit, with no deal in place ...

Many negatives in the clip. Kind of like: ''No, I did not disagree.''

Double negative? Triple negative? It seems to amount to about a quintuple negative. :dizzy:

She (May) wants a deal in place to leave. Boris Johnson wants to leave, but with no deal. A new referendum might result in the people wanting to stay. Ha ha, but the entire situation is tragic and self-destructive imo. David Cameron called for the original referendum. When it did not go as he expected, he quit. :dizzy:

And at one time ''the sun never set on the British Empire.''

Just imo.


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Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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Sir Purrcival
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

A couple of thoughts cross my mind as this whole thing unfolds.

1. That even though politicians will often portray any kind of economic union as one that can be gotten out of, this shows that in practice that is far harder than in theory. Maybe food for thought when it comes to other massive economic trade agreements like the TPP or CUSMA.

2. I find some of the Brits machinations on this somewhat amusing. The latest "Brexit but with an agreement" vote seems totally oblivious to one startling fact. That what they vote for amounts to a hill of beans if the EU decides that they no longer want to try for an agreement. The deadline is in a couple of weeks. The Brits can vote for whatever they want but as it stands now, they are completely at the whim of the EU. Now they may show some tolerance towards Britain but this can't go on forever and if they decide that they don't want give anymore or are simply tired of it, then oh well, too bad for the Brits. It is kind of a case of Britain wanting the cake and eating it too.


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Toppy Vann
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit

What a complete gong show.

UK and USA in disarray at the national level with Canada looking to fall into the same situation as the opposition parties lock onto the SNC Lavalin issue looking like this Parliament will go into a stall.

It seems that PM Theresa May is handling this file entirely alone and while the UK is still seemingly on that model where the PM In Parliament reigns supreme versus individual ministers leading their issues, the UK is in a mess and a house divided is never a good thing. May is a single issue PM it seems and I don't see the end game for this government - other than maybe extend the date of March 29.

Not sure an election will resolve their issue and maybe they got to suck it up and figure a way to do a referendum of sorts.

In Canada, an election in May 2019 might be the only way out of this Lavalin gong show as a stalled Parliament is not a good thing. This calculus means that the Libs could fall in the west but win back Quebec and at worst be in a minority gov't situation or put the Tories in minority. The sad thing is that many good new MPs will be gone and the leader in the NDP is hardly turning on the nation these days. Tories have no policies yet.

I still can't grasp how the media is giving the former MOJAG a pass as they know that a disgruntled minister is obligated to go directly to the PM and state their case and if not satisfied threaten to resign.

Being angry and balking at moving to indigenous services to replace Philpott who is an experienced vice Chair at Treasury Board claiming you can't administer the Indian Act is ridiculous when your Justice Minister and AG and lead a system while results in a disproportionate number of indigenous dominate our federal prisons. As you were doing in Justice - fix these issues - you can do more in Indigenous Services.

Brexit seems insane as Sir Purcival notes - it's hard to get out of economic unions once formed.


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Toppy Vann
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Re: 2014 -- Scotland voting on separation, and now --> Brexit



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