Who starts in the Playoffs?

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Assuming both are healthy, who starts in the playoffs?

Poll ended at Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:07 pm

Dave Dickenson - you can't lose your spot with an injury
20
38%
Casey Printers - the guy deserves to play
28
54%
Jarious Jackson - avoid a scrap with the other two
4
8%
 
Total votes: 52
Charger27

Question 2:
Who gets shipped out in the off season, Dickenson or Printers?
Question 3:
Which team is most likely to make the big deal for a QB?

My picks:
Casey Printers
Toronto or Ottawa
Sniper1

DD starts....no question about it.
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jim604
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CP gets the Start(s) no question about it.

Dave had his chance at the big dance, after CP got us there and didnt get it done.

It's CP's turn, I think he's the man for the job. As he keeps on proving he is a big game guy.

Especially if he can pull of a big win in E-town, on the road tommorow..
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Dan_Payne_fan!!
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what he said
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SammyGreene
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This seriously can't be answered until after tomorrow night's game and maybe not until Nov. 6 either.

Perhaps the 2 biggest regular season games on the near horizon that will go a long way towards figuring out the QB equation in the playoffs.

Wally has recognized what CP has done by given him the start this week even with DD back in the picture. But this will be a much greater task that should go a long way to answering this question.
Last edited by SammyGreene on Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rammer
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Edmonton game will give direction to this decision, injury may discount that yet down the road. This is CP's time to show he is the man for the show, IMHO. If ever he saw motivation as his benefactor this game is the one to do so. :beer:
Entertainment value = an all time low
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Larry Key
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CP all the way. After last years debacle, he deserves to finish what he started although this is a new season. That bitter taste still lingers in my mouth.

Ship DD to TO and sign CP to a long term contract. Keep BP and JJ as backups for next season.
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almo89
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DD should start. DD is the one that got us here. Last year CP should have started the Grey Cup instead of DD. But this year DD has to start. Playoffs is a different game. CP had problems in last year's West Final.
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Lion Guy
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Who cares? !!

Just win baby, then we can have a few months to sit back and play arm chair Coach for next year.

DD or Printers, Prionters or DD....nice little problem to have in my opinion, especially with BP sitting #3.

We need to start worrying about Edmonton, not who plays.

I am pretty sure that's what the entire team is doing right now.

8)
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jerepeters
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I believe Casey Printers should get a chance he's better athletically and Dave Dickenson had his chance last year @ the Grey Cup and no results we should of won last year and we should be defending Champions anyway Go Lions Go :rockin:
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Lions_Fan_4_Life
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CP because he snapped the losing streak and had an awesome game against Montreal too!
"I hope he enjoys Stornoway and I hope he's happy there for a long time"

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DD carried the team for 11 games, then the team went 1-4 without him. Casey has played in the last couple of games. DD is the man you start, with CP at #2.
milky

I look at it this way. Casey should start as long as he is winning and healthy.
If Dave has to back up the rest of the year I don't see it being a problem. The reason being that Printers may move on next year, maybe not but if he does then by the time next season comes around Dave will take over the team again and be over being pissed. I don't believe there will be any holdover anymosity with Dave. After all I'm sure he remembers what happened in last years Grey cup.
But, If Casey does want to stay here and he signs a new contract then you have to trade DD. Dave is a great quarterback...when he's healthy. Thats the problem he's 32 years old now and he is pretty beat up I would imagine. I think Wally really has to wonder about DD's ability to stay healthy, I don't think he's ever gone thru a season without serious injury.Casey is younger and stronger and a lot more exciting. And if he doesn't make the nfl we could have casey as our qb for years. If Wally replaces him with Dave again in the playoffs then I think we've seen the last of Casey.
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Doesn't matter to me. 4 great qbs means not having to worry.

Just win, baby.
Blitz
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DD carried the team for 11 games
He carried?? the team?? I don't think so! The defence carried the team and Dickenson didn't even play in all eleven games. Printers was the quarterback in our one win against Edmonton and we lost with Dickenson quarterbacking. I also am not going to give Printers credit for the Edmonton win...because the defence carried the team in that game as well.

Dave Dickenson is paid over $400,000 a year. Last year he recieved that money and didn't play hardly at all due to injury. He played well in the second half of the Western Final and then was outplayed in the Grey Cup by Damon Allan, the guy he replaced for bigger money. He only threw for less than one hundred yards in the last three quarters and he was put in the game due to his veteran experience, leadership, and ability to read and exploit Toronto's 3-4 defence. It didn't lead to a win.

Dickenson's contract is a big chunk of change in the CFL. It meant that we couldn't sign a number of free agents in the off-season. For that I expect a quarterback to not be good but outstanding. Dave Dickenson is supposed to be great at reading defences and yet he is identified as being the major reason our team has had so many sacks and was only middle of the league in offence for most of our winning streak. He has perhaps the best recieving corps in the league.

Yes, he throws few interceptions but Printers threw few interceptions last year with a vertical attack that involves the ball being in the air longer with more opportunities for picks. He produced 29 touchdowns and only 10 interceptions, even though it was his rookie year in terms of playing and he didn't even play the whole season. Printers hasn't even started a full season of games in the CFL. Yes, Dickenson throws for high percentage but at a cost of stalled drives and no points on the board due to sacks.

The fact is that the offence is limited with Dickenson at quarterback. He doesn't escape the blitz well, rollout well, or run well. He needs an offensive line that can give him more time than any other top quarterback in the league. Given time, he can shred a team a defence but in the blitz happy CFL that isn't always going to happen. He's excellent at the intermediate passing game, if given time and I believe is best, like he was in the Western Final last year, when he can come in during the second half.. when the defensive line is more worn down...and he has the time to find recievers.

The fact is that the CFL is not designed for a drop back style quarterback. Most of the CFL greats from Jackie Parker to Russ Jackson to Warren Moon have been quarterbacks who can rollout and pass, and run and pass, and run. Damon Allan is still playing the game at a high level because he can still escape the rush, rollout, and run, even at his age. Yes, there have been quarterbacks that were pocket passers who have enjoyed reasonable success but the great ones were all have been mobile. The CFL wide field is made for the mobile quarterback who can throw as well as run.

Its not a choice between LIKING Dickenson or Printers as much as it is about the success of both styles. And I really believe Printers plays the style I think is best for the Leos and success in the CFL.

One example is the naked bootleg play the Leos have run all season. I hate the play and still don't like it. I'll quickly review it. The Leos run it in different ways. Here is one of the most common. The quarterback fakes the inside handoff to Warren, which hopefully holds the safety inside, and sprints out right (they run it to both sides) The wide reciever Thelwell runs a fly pattern. The second inside reciever runs hard at the inside halfback. The third inside reciever (the Leos usually run this in the five reciever set but can slip out Green in the four reciever set) runs a deep out to the flat that has been cleared by Thelwell and the second reciever. Warren runs the fake and breaks outside, looking for the short pass.

The Lions don't block the defensive end, hoping he will be false influenced by Warren's fake inside run. At worse, they hope to have him on an island. The end is never fooled. The end, instead of staying on the island, rushes the quarterback hard. We've run this play with Dickenson all year with dismal results. When Dickenson has gotten the ball off he's usally taken a wicked hit. Sometimes he hasn't been able to outrun the end and gotten sacked. He's also tried to ball fake the end, resulting in the play timing getting all out of wack for an incompletion. The play has resulted in near picks if the defence was playing a zone. At best, on a couple of occasions Dickenson has hit Warren for a short gain. Buck Pierce has also run the play, completing it for a short gain. He also did the unusual and hit the second receiver, by throwing a difficult throw across his body as he was under pressure and the second reciever came back for the ball.

Lets look at Printers. In the Montreal game he ran the naked bootleg and while sprinting left away from the end at top speed he threw off balance across his body deep to Thelwell on the fly pattern for a touchdown. The ability to run with speed, to throw deep at full speed to his left, made the play happen. Montreal let Thelwell go, thinking the throw was not possible. In the Winnipeg game, the Leos ran the same naked bootleg, to the right, this time, on the second play of the game. Printers outran the end, got outside, and hit Thelwell deep again, for a huge gain.

Its the difference of what a mobile quarterback with athleticism and a strong arm can do. He opens up the playbook. Cavillo ran the same play time and time again against us in Montreal. He drove Wilson crazy. Wilson at first slanted down to stop Edwards and Cavillo beat him outside time and again. Wilson started playing outside so much that they ran Edwards off-tackle to his side for big runs. Wilson started slanting down again and Cavillo was outside again. They finally had to look at bringing a linebacker up. The success of that aspect of the offence was due to Cavillo's ability to rollout and cause problems for a rookie when a team has a good back and a mobile quarterback (and I'm not picking on Wilson..just using it as an example...and Wilson is fast)

Printers may play awful against Edmonton. Dickenson could come into the game and play well. That doesn't change it for me. In the long run, a team that has a quarterback who is smart, can run, can run and throw, and can escape the rush, when he gets enough experience is much more difficult to defend than an experienced pocket passer with limited mobility...no matter how well he reads a defence. That's the CFL and why, in the long run a quarterback with Printers style will be more of an advantage to an offence than Dickenson's. Over the long run, a Buck Pierce, who is not as mobile as Printers but can still run and run and throw will offer more advantages. Dickenson has experience and that's his great advantage right now.

The league has also changed. Defences are much faster now. Linebackers are faster, stronger, and more athletic. Defensive tackles aren't just big, stong bodies. They are huge, fast, and athletic. Defensive ends can run as fast as many quarterbacks. Quicker, defensive backs can provide close coverage on a reciever for a longer period of time

The future is brighter, over an extended period of time with a mobile quarterback who can escape faster pass rushers, outrun defensive ends, buy time for recievers, put pressure on defences to make decisions with the ability to run or run and throw. This is the style of quarterback best suited to the CFL game!!
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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