CP should start against Edmonton...

[smithers]

I know some of you still support DD and want him to rest next game, just so he can be healthy for the playoffs. I appreciate that sentiment, and if DD's health is still marginal I'd agree with it. But I'll say this, for those those that have become Printers-Lovers and want him to supplant Dave, even if he's healthy and be #1 from here on in, based on the results of TWO games - shame on you. I might remind you that this "vertical attack" and all this talk of "old magic" in the papers, has come against the absolute 2 worst defenses in the league. Winnipeg gives up an average of about 460 yards per game, Montreal about 400. The next-worst (which is HAMILTON!) gives up only 376 per game! It's not even close how Montreal and Winnipeg are inferior to the rest of the league! Anyone who wants to cast aside Dickenson and go with Printers, you might want to ask yourself who made us 11-0, and show a little respect.

[Rick James]

you might want to ask yourself who made us 11-0, and show a little respect.

A combination of Dave Dickenson, Casey Printers, and Buck Pierce made us 11-0 along with some great defensive play.

DD was playing great up until his injury, but he had missed action prior to the concussion too. It was the team that was 11-0 not DD. Football is a team game.

Some people say that DD shouldn't lose his job because of injury, but consider this. Had CP been healthy in TC, DD may have lost the job then as it was supposed to be up in the air. It was supposed to be a battle for the starters job and CP lost his opportunity because of injury.

[smithers]

A combination of Dave Dickenson, Casey Printers, and Buck Pierce made us 11-0 along with some great defensive play.

I realized that aspect after I posted - I didn't mean to be over-controversial or make it seem like DD is 100% responsible for the team's success either, so I may have misphrased that. Wally has definitely forged an excellent atmosphere, and it has been many talented individuals (players & coaches), working together as a team that has led to the success.

I just meant in terms of fan support, people shouldn't be too whimsical to nominate CP as #1. Wally said from training camp that the starting position was up for grabs, and who plays best will earn it.

So fine, if things had been different, CP had been healthier, maybe they each could have started a more-equal number of games, and then if CP was clearly superior, I might support him as #1 as well.

Regardless of thoughts of loyalty to DD, I guess my more-important point was to have some perspective on the calibre of the opposition that CP faced the last 2 games (2 horrible Defenses), and the fact that it IS only 2 games.

Blitz, as usual, has some good arguments on how they might split some upcoming games to see which might be healthier & more productive. Maybe that's a good idea, because I'm almost afraid that if CP DOES start against Edmonton (best D in the league), and blows them away entirely, I might be much more inclined to put him in as #1 too.

Believe me, I went to Ottawa for Grey Cup and didn't like to see DD start then, and that game's results spoke for itself in disappointment. CP earned the start, I felt, last year.

But at this point, regardless of the last 2 games, I still have to support Dave - so far, HE'S earned the start.

[CatsEyes]

It was really great watching the Winnipeg game again after we got home. There was one part, where Dave's standing on the sidelines taking notes, and Casey's off to the side. Then Dave says something and they're both standing together smiling and laughing. It's classic. Then, moments later, you see a similar shot, but with BP in the mix. The star, the master and the pupil. For those of you that recorded it, look for that moment. It says much.

[almo89]

Believe me, I went to Ottawa for Grey Cup and didn't like to see DD start then, and that game's results spoke for itself in disappointment. CP earned the start, I felt, last year.

But at this point, regardless of the last 2 games, I still have to support Dave - so far, HE'S earned the start.

Exactly. Last year i thought Casey should have started in the Grey Cup because he got us there. This year i think DD is clearly our #1 because he got us here.

[Lions_Fan_4_Life]

CP all the way

[Blitz]

I might remind you that this "vertical attack" and all this talk of "old magic" in the papers, has come against the absolute 2 worst defenses in the league

There is no question that Winnipeg and Montreal's defences are not strong defences but hopefully that comment wasn't made to degrade Casey Printers performance. It also doesn't tell the whole story....the fact is that it was obvious that Casey Printers still made some incredible plays in both games.

There are a number of factors that also have to be taken into account...one is that Dave Dickenson is tough and has a tendancy to want to come back from injuries perhaps earlier than he should. The second factor is that while Dave Dickenson may feel fully recovered from his concussion and not be exhibiting any lingering effects concussions are still unpredictable... and the more healing time the better.

A third factor is that Dave Dickenson was calling for Casey Printers to play before he sustained his concussion. Dickenson said "We need Casey back!" Dickenson had taken a battering and had even given up golf in the week because he was so banged up he couldn't play golf any more on his day off. The extra rest will allow his body to heal along with the additional time to recover from his head injury.

No one is disputing the calibre of quarterback Dave Dickenson. However, you're not entirely accurate that Dave Dickenson made the Lions 11-0. Printers started the Edmonton game in the winning streak, Printers started and Buck Pierce came in to win the Saskatchewan game, and Printers repleaced Dickenson in the Hamilton game. While Dave Dickenson was the quarterback for most of the Leos winning streak it was mainly the defence that was the key to those victories.

Dave Dickenson did have the highest passing percentage in the league. However the Leos offence also struggled at times, was only middle of the league in terms of total offence and leading the league in sacks. I didn't blame Dave Dickenson for those problems ..I mostly blamed the Leos scheme. The Leos defence also caused a lot of turnovers during the streak that led to a lot of points.

Dave Dickenson didn't make us 11-0 by himself as Casey Printers, by himself, couldnt' lead us to victory against Montreal. Nor did Casey Printers win us the Edmonton game...in fact he played poorly but the defence came up big.

In terms of who the opposition is..yes a quarterback should have an easier time against a weaker defence. However, there is a game within a game that needs to be looked at. In every game, no matter who the opposition is, there will be very difficult plays to execute and opportunities for a quarterback to make something out of nothing. Its the quality of those plays, in part, that really determine how good a quarterback is playing.

There is nothing wrong with teamates or fans being excited about Printers playing so well or appreciating some of the special things he did out there. His receivers have commented on it, his offensive line has commented on it, and his coaches have commented on itl
I can't remember any fans being upset about very positive comments made about Dave Dickenson's high passing percentage, accurate throwing and low interception rate. I don't understand a Leos fan being upset about positive comments about Printers playing very well over his past two games. A Leos fan should be excited about Printers, Dickenson or Buck Pierce having a couple of great games to help turn a losing streak around.

Over the last two years Casey Printers and Dave Dickenson have started approximately the same amount of games for the Leos. a They are both #1 quarterbacks who have proven they can lead this team and win when healthy.

Printers started most of the games last season and Dickenson has been the main starter this year. They are both outstanding quarterbacks with two different styles. When they are both completely healthy I've stated my preferance for starting Printers and then going with Dickenson and my reasons why.

I also try to judge my opinions of a quarterbacks play on his on-field performance..and not on any other factors...like his personality, his contract, or his hair color. His ability to lead, his ability to get his team touchdowns and points, and the confidence of his teamatesare the factors I care about. At this stage all I care about is maximizing our opportunities to get into the playoffs with the home field advantage and win the Grey Cup.

To me, who starts is not as important than this....if either quarterback is struggling the coach needs to get the other into the game... rather than sticking with one too long!!!!

[LFITQ]

To me, who starts is not as important than this....if either quarterback is struggling the coach needs to get the other into the game... rather than sticking with one too long!!!!

But this is probably the best line that both QB's (and maybe alot of the team need to take to heart....

The ideal, Wally Buono said, would be if his top quarterbacks took the same good-soldier approach as Elewonibi. The 39-year-old received the game ball after he started at left tackle for Sherko Haji-Rasouli, who didn't dress due to a muscle pull, and ended at centre when Angus Reid's knee gave out.

"[That] was very telling," Buono said. "Moe's been a secondary player, yet the team saw how a true professional responded."

[Blitz]

GREAT post LFITQ!!! Your use of the quote from the Province was used very skillfully to give us all perspective.

It's good to see you're back from California and I hope you're not leaving us for the NFL...as a player or a poster!!! It's almost been PAINFUL without you!!

It'll be an exciting game against Edmonton....the week is already dragging in anticipation!!

[Blitz]

Believe me, I went to Ottawa for Grey Cup and didn't like to see DD start then, and that game's results spoke for itself in disappointment. CP earned the start, I felt, last year.

But at this point, regardless of the last 2 games, I still have to support Dave - so far, HE'S earned the start.

I read you follow-up post Smithers and appreciate your view of 'earning' a start. I've always believed, if there is a way, you make sure all your players contribute and feel they have contributed to a victory. Challenging decisions lay ahead. It's interesting to discuss them and sometimes reflect on our own views and others.

We're in a much easier positon to do that. For the coaches their decisions bear tremendous responsibiilty and the passionate hopes of players, their coaching colleagues, and a lot of fans ride on their decisions. The Leos coaching staff has had an extra year to learn how to deal with the quarterback situation, to know each quarterbacks strengths, personalities, how they respond to different situations, and to understand when and how they are utilized best.

[rb]

I wish it was the good ol' days when a two-QB situation worked in the best interests of the team, but these days egos seem to ruin that idea.

So, I think that Wally's pick this week should be the guy the rest of the way, barring injury. The majority of fans want Casey, and from what I'm picking up from the newspapers it sounds like maybe the players want Casey, too. But what if you go with Casey, and then he leaves at the end of the season, and Dickenson is pissed at not playing and wants out, too?

Wally's got an interesting choice on his hands.

[smithers]

Thanks Blitz & LFITQ for some great posts. All very well put, very insightful.

And you're right, when I didn't mean to be derogatory to CP. He's incredibly talented, and he does bring an element to the offense that's exciting to watch. Seems to me like he refuses to lose, and "wills" a way to make things happen. He's got that ability (combination speed/toughness/mental sharpness/great arm) that's uniquely needed in the CFL for sure. So it's obvious BC can win with either QB. But I still usually try to take the moderate approach, and avoid the knee-jerk response to a couple of games.

In terms of the point of "earning" playing time, that's something I think good coaches have to consider. It may not be everything, but it has to be considered. An example: Winnipeg stated a couple weeks ago that they were going to "use the remainder of the season as a training camp for next year". Since they were eliminated, why not try to create some positives and get a head's up on talent for next season? Why not, because it's disrespectful to the players who get replaced in the lineup! Those players worked hard in training camp, and all season long, and I think playing time is one of (if not THE) most important thing to a player. So you bring in unknowns to evaluate (like Tuipala), and gee, surprise, the guy who they were going to pull so he could be evaluated (Ryland Wickman) is offended to the point that he quits the team. And the message to the rest of the team is: we don't have loyalty to our players.

I like Wally's style a lot more. He'll stay with players that earned their spot. But even Wally will eventually do what needs to be done to make the team it's best. He just makes sure than when that move is done, it's with good definitive reason, and they've been given every chance. O'Mahoney's a good example. No player can complain that he wasn't given every opportunity to improve his FG-kicking game. Even as much as sticking with him a couple weeks ago when he out-performed Greathouse in practise.

With Dave, I remember huge hits he was taking while delivering the ball for TD's, earlier in the year when we were 5-0, 6-0, 7-0, 8-0, etc. The one that stands out is the one where he seperated his shoulder taking a punishing hit while delivering the ball to Jackson for a TD in the 39-15 victory against Hamilton here on Aug 19. At the time, I thought he was crazy - we didn't need to win that much I thought. Well as it turns out, now we're fighting for #1 in the West still and every one of those games Dave clawed out is pivotal, even if it might not have seemed so at the time.

But you guys are right, both CP and DD are professionals, and they're both just thinking of winning the Grey Cup. I have total confidence in Wally making the right choices that'll be best for the team's chances for that.

[harry]

Blitz, my man, you are a cold blooded writer. I love your post....Keep it coming, because you are own it big time.

[fishman]

Fact is you want Dave healthy and ready for the playoffs. If the last game at Commonwealth is any indication, you don't want him in this game. Casey's mobility will serve him well and better he absorb the punnishment than Dave.

[Rammer]

Fact is you want Dave healthy and ready for the playoffs. If the last game at Commonwealth is any indication, you don't want him in this game. Casey's mobility will serve him well and better he absorb the punnishment than Dave.

Not enough on the line for the Lions in that game James, it is a much different scenario this time around. The Lions are hungry, this is a playoff type game, expect to see a much more focused Lions team on the field.