Who are your Top 5 Despicable B.C. Lions Players?

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Robbie
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In light of David's popular thread about Top 5 Favourite B.C. Lions as well as the other thread about Top 5 Canadian B.C. Lions, I'm going to add a twist with an admittedly more controversial topic. If you had to list the Top 5 most despised B.C. Lions players, who would that be?

I request that you comply with these two requirements:

#1.
Please list PLAYERS only and not head or assistant coaches, managers, owners, and other executives. You can create another thread for that. If that person served both as a player and then afterwards a staff member for the BC Lions, please just think of his time as a player. A very likely person who would be listed would be Jacques Chapdelaine given all the criticisms he received as the Lions offensive coordinator, but please do not list him as such. But if you want to judge him during his 1983-84 stint as a player, then by all means you can do so.

#2.
Obviously the word DESPISE is a very strong word to use, so please be serious about it and don't list those who you only have mixed feelings for or who obviously had some good contributions for the Lions as well. As a great example, I know many of you find Damon Allen as very unpredictable and frustrating sometimes, but to despise him would obviously be way too strong of a word and an obvious overstatement given the fact the he certainly had some noticeable positive aspects as hall of famer. Likewise, despite Doug Flutie leaving the team because of money or Matt Dunigan's ill-fated interception and request for a trade, I've never heard Lions fans despising them.

I guess every person as their own criteria of what it takes to despise someone. For me, it's those who while relatively good performance wise had serious disciplinary issues, or those who certainly had a lot of potential and were given a fair opportunity to do well, but kept blowing their chance again and again.

#1 - #3.
Larry "Slick" Willis, Doug "Tank" Landry, and Mark Gastineau

In the extremely disorganized 1990 season, Willis and Landry were brought into the team to improve both offence and defence and they did relatively well with their previous teams (Stampeders, Argonauts). But as Lions, they were only mediocre on the field but worse, were considered huge troublemakers in the locker room and upon the replace of Joe Kapp by Bob O'Billovich as General Manager, he immediately released those two. Defensive End Mark Gastineau was one of the quickest and most feared pass rushers as a NY Jet and twice led the NFL as the sacks leader. The Lions gave him an opportunity to continue his professional football career by giving him a generous two year contract and he wasn't too old at age 33, still had a few years left. But he become so undisciplined in that the season opener, he was ejected at half-time after a brawl, and survived only 4 games before being released.

#4.
Duncan O'Mahony

After being released by the Stampeders, the Lions gave him a chance to improve his kicking while he was relatively young. But the improvement never materialized and he had to be replaced by older Mark McLoughlin and eventually older Paul McCallum.

#5.
Andre Ware

Andre Ware and Doug Flutie had a lot of similarities with regards to their college and early pro-football opportunities in that both were Heisman Trophy winners who couldn't secure a long-term starting QB position in America. So the BC Lions approached them and gave them a huge opportunity to jumpstart their professional careers. Flutie immediately took that opportunity and worked very hard to establish into one of the CFL greats. But for Andre Ware who certainly had the potential to adjust to become very well too when he was given the starting QB job for the Lions in 1996. But after a handful of games, it was soon apparent that he was not good enough to be a starter and was released in favour of Damon Allen.

Honourable mentions:

Casey Printers after his last game as a Lion.
Steve Muhammad won 1998 outstanding rookie but quickly bolted and allegedly beat his wife.

As a bonus - the most despised non-Lion CFL player - Angelo Mosca because of his hit on Willie Fleming in the 1963 Grey Cup. I'm sure Joe Kapp would agree with me as he clearly has hard feelings between the two in 2011.
Last edited by Robbie on Sat Apr 11, 2020 8:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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DanoT
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Khalif Mitchell.


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B.C.FAN
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I don't despise anyone so I can't make a list.

Some Lions went on to commit violent crimes (Steve Muhammad, as noted above) or traffic drugs (Yonus Davis, for one) but those are tragic life stories. There are probably more players who overcame tragic backgrounds to become professional football players.

Ricky Foley could also be considered to reneging on an oral commitment to the Lions as a free agent in 2010 and signing with the Argos the same day but that's more on the Lions for announcing his acquisition before he signed a contract. I was happy for him when he won the Grey Cup as an Argo in front of his family in 2012 was named the game's most outstanding Canadian.

I also was disappointed when a long list of players including Joe Kapp, Mervyn Fernandez, Cam Wake and Adam Bighill left the Lions for the NFL but I can't blame them for taking the opportunity. I followed all of them closely during their time in the NFL and was happy to see most of them reflect positively on their time in B.C.


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KnowItAll
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Jiminez, or however you spell it.


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Sir Purrcival
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:52 pm
Ricky Foley could also be considered to reneging on an oral commitment to the Lions as a free agent in 2010 and signing with the Argos the same day but that's more on the Lions for announcing his acquisition before he signed a contract. I was happy for him when he won the Grey Cup as an Argo in front of his family in 2012 was named the game's most outstanding Canadian.
Off on a bit of a tangent here. Like you I don't really feel the need to think about who I don't care for but with regards to Foley, as I recall, it was Foley himself that was talking on local radio the day of about how happy he was to be coming back and so on and so on. Then a few hours later signed with Toronto. That was the reason it stung as much as it did.


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Toppy Vann
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Not sure "despicable" is the word that we should use to describe people here.

"Deserving of contempt or scorn; vile.
That may be or deserves to be despised; contemptible; base; vile; worthless: applicable equally to persons and things: as, a despicable man; a despicable gift."

Jason Jimenez or Khalif Mitchell are not despicable people but maybe guilty of some acts that some found despicable.


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KnowItAll
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If I can remember correctly, I think Rob Murphy was pretty much the same as Jimenez and Mitchell


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Aside from a few of the names already mentioned, I can't think of any player being particularly "despicable" on the field. Much in the same manner as Steve Muhammad, Yonus Davis, et al, who ran into troubles with the law after they played here, a fellow North Vancouverite certainly gets my vote for this list for his off-field activities.

Josh Boden first came to the Lions training camp in 2005 after a stellar rookie season with the South Surrey Rams. He didn't make the CFL roster but was kept around on the Developmental Roster as a Territorial Protection through the 2006 season.

In 2007 Boden was signed to the team roster as a backup receiver. I remember that year at Fan Fest I saw him talking to his mother and sister, and I casually mentioned to them all that I had been hearing good things about Josh's performance at camp, and how it was good to see another North Van kid make good. His Mom nearly hugged me, she was so proud!

What followed that 2007 season was a litany of charges over the subsequent years. When Boden was charged with domestic assault and robbery in 2008, Wally released him. Boden's pro football career stats are: 2 seasons, 14 passes caught for 237 yards.

And then there was the Paris Jackson incident. Jackson, another good North Van kid, assumed a sort of older brother role and took Boden under his wing, but the youngster wasn't having any part of that, and is rumoured to have broken Jackson's jaw in a dressing room fracas. In his adult life, Boden has spent more time in court than on the football field.

So, is that despicable enough to make your list?


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Robbie
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:54 pm
Jason Jimenez or Khalif Mitchell are not despicable people but maybe guilty of some acts that some found despicable.
When comparing these two examples, then question comes down to this: Do you dislike a player more because of his bad behavior on the field or off the field?

A great example who has shown bad behavior is one who was originally a BC Lion but is better known as an Argonaut and eventually a Roughrider - James Curry.

James Curry has allegedly killed his girlfriend Jennifer Flores in 2007 but because of lack of evidence he hasn't been charged. And no doubt he was a dirty player on the field. I mentioned this at least three times before, and I'll mention it yet again. I will forever remember what he did early on the 1987 season as a Roughrider when he laid a very strong hit on then-Argonaut QB John Congemi after he threw an interception. While Curry was fined $2,000 by then-commissioner Doug Mitchell, his players association appealed.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Robbie
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QB Club 63 wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 pm
Josh Boden first came to the Lions training camp in 2005 after a stellar rookie season with the South Surrey Rams. He didn't make the CFL roster but was kept around on the Developmental Roster as a Territorial Protection through the 2006 season.

In 2007 Boden was signed to the team roster as a backup receiver. I remember that year at Fan Fest I saw him talking to his mother and sister, and I casually mentioned to them all that I had been hearing good things about Josh's performance at camp, and how it was good to see another North Van kid make good. His Mom nearly hugged me, she was so proud!

What followed that 2007 season was a litany of charges over the subsequent years. When Boden was charged with domestic assault and robbery in 2008, Wally released him. Boden's pro football career stats are: 2 seasons, 14 passes caught for 237 yards.

And then there was the Paris Jackson incident. Jackson, another good North Van kid, assumed a sort of older brother role and took Boden under his wing, but the youngster wasn't having any part of that, and is rumoured to have broken Jackson's jaw in a dressing room fracas. In his adult life, Boden has spent more time in court than on the football field.

So, is that despicable enough to make your list?
:whs:


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Sir Purrcival
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Boden was more of a tragedy of wasted potential. Hated seeing guys who have gobs of talent that other more worthy characters would die for fritter it away. That was Boden.

Can't really hate people I don't know but there were characters that I felt kind of let the team down at points.
For me, I think the struggle comes when I think the actions of a player reflect poorly on the team and the community. I have to remind myself that the few characters who may have been less than stellar on or off the field pale in comparison to the huge number of players who came, played hard, were decent characters at the very least. A few bad apples here and there are always around when you are talking barrels of them.


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Toppy Vann
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You guys got it wrong Josh Boden breaking Paris Jackson's jaw.

It was Jerome Messam.

"In 2010, he broke former Lions' teammate Paris Jackson's jaw in a dressing-room fight and received a suspended sentence and fine for an altercation in a London, Ont., nightclub."

Wally defended his guy when he arrived in BC post college saying when it comes out what happened he'd be cleared for the bar fight - he wasn't lol.

Then Wally covered up the fight over what some said was a card game but IIRC it was a parking pass for the game.

I was harsh on Wally for the cover up as that wrecked Jackson's season - a season in which he had the broken jaw for a long time and played while Wally was trashing his play IIRC.

Messam got himself charged in Calgary and not sure of that outcome but it ended his career. It was something to do with photos taken.

I have serious reservations on our current justice system as some charges like indecent assault are laid so easily and they never get to court but the new process sort of lets them go without a trial but the stigma and kind of record. A meek, mild friend of mine got charged by his wife (she called police after he filed for divorce).

The Eric Tillman charges were ridiculous - and even that girl and family didn't want charges. There are options outside courts to resolve this things and move on.

____

Jason Jimenez and Rob Murphy both played mean and while Jason had a few storied moments so did many others. It shouldn't define his entire career. Jimenez wrote some good Op Ed pieces in the Sun too.


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Toppy Vann wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:28 am
You guys got it wrong Josh Boden breaking Paris Jackson's jaw.

It was Jerome Messam.
:good: Right you are, Toppy. Mea culpa. I'm going to blame my error on temporary senility. :clown:

Either that, or having spent far too long in self-isolation! :bang:


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KnowItAll
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:28 am

Jason Jimenez and Rob Murphy both played mean and while Jason had a few storied moments so did many others. It shouldn't define his entire career. Jimenez wrote some good Op Ed pieces in the Sun too.
to me, they weren't just mean, they were down right dirty at times.

as players, I really didn't like them and didn't want them on the team.

They could be wonderful people off the field. I don't know


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I really didn’t like Byron Parker in the one season he played here in 2012. In the 2012 season the Lions were the best in the league, and were supposed to repeat as Grey Cup champs. The Lions secondary was filled with heart and soul/ hardworking players like Marsh and Banks. Couldn’t say the same for Parker however. Despite his hype when he was signed, I don’t recall him getting any interceptions that year. He seemed like a selfish, lazy player at times in the regular season as well.
Fast forward to the playoffs, and guess what happens? Parker is burned more than once by Calgary’s long ball, and the entire team wasn’t able to recover.
Byron had a great career, and I’m sure he’s a great guy personally. For that one season though I wasn’t impressed at all. I still don’t understand Wally choosing him over resigning Tad Kornegay after 2011.

Also Kevin Glenn in 2014. The so called “trade of the century” the dude was handing out interceptions like Halloween candy. Granted it wasn’t entirely his fault, I mean the entire team was terrible that year. Still though, he really underperformed in 2014, and I’m not surprised that he doesn’t have a Grey Cup ring despite being in the league for like 20 years.


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