Off-season / FA sigings & losses and draft implications

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cromartie
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Murdoch wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:55 am
Call it unlikely at best.

What about Brett Boyko to the Riders straight up for Sol E? I suspect a positive fan reaction on both ends.

Sask oline took a hit and they just signed St John so chances are they listen. BC could, and likely will, do worse than Sol. Boyko possibly headed home next year anyway.

I think Sask knows the gem they have on a two year deal and would pass. Maybe not.
By the time all is said and done, the Sol E people are going to be as bad as the Casey Printers people were.

In this hypothetical trade of Boyko, are you throwing in the cape he takes on the field with him to waive opposing defenders through toward Mike?
cms22
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i think in the draft you just go with talent. not with need. you need the talent and it takes time to develop the player......... and when i say go with talent, i mean receiver, oline, dback. to go to another position, you have to really committed to building that up and planning for it (i.e. backup, schemes etc.)

as per DT, i would say we go completely away from that. for a unique nat position like that, you need the talent and both our players left.... don't get me wrong, it's fine to get away from a canadian there.

herdman (and termansen/thompson), i'd put on hervey more than claybrooks. we spent too much money elsewhere so had to put very cheap players in some spots. and we didn't give enough thought/attention to developing americans.

what is a naturalized canadian? do they count towards the 7 spots? is it still 7 spots? do these naturalized canadians have their own ratio?
cms22
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so if i read the new CBA correctly, and it is confusing.

they have upped the non-import number to 10 from 7 but relaxed the definition of non-import. seemed to me like it is 3 years with same team or 4 years with league..........

assuming that's correct, is there still a hard number on "pure" canadians..

i'm thinking it makes average import veterans more valuable. and teams might not be able to load up on young, cheap americans as much.

i saw reference to canadian minimum pay increasing alot. and yes, it made reference to reilly's contract making things tough. also salary cap didn't go up as much as hoped.
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B.C.FAN
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cms22 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:08 pm
so if i read the new CBA correctly, and it is confusing.

they have upped the non-import number to 10 from 7 but relaxed the definition of non-import. seemed to me like it is 3 years with same team or 4 years with league..........

assuming that's correct, is there still a hard number on "pure" canadians..

i'm thinking it makes average import veterans more valuable. and teams might not be able to load up on young, cheap americans as much.

i saw reference to canadian minimum pay increasing alot. and yes, it made reference to reilly's contract making things tough. also salary cap didn't go up as much as hoped.
Yes, teams must have 10 national starters but that number can now include up to three Americans who have been with the team for 3 full seasons or in the league for 4 full seasons. Teams must still start at least 7 true nationals. More importantly, if any of the 10 national starters is injured, he can be replaced by an American backup who meets the same definition of a national starter. For example, an injured Canadian offensive lineman or receiver can be replaced by an American backup who has been in the league for 4 years. That American backup would be counted as a national starter for the remainder of the game.

The CFL minimum salary for nationals and Americans has gone up by $11,000 to $65,000 from $54,000. Global players are excluded from the increase. The impact of that change has been estimated at about $150,000 per team. The salary cap went up by only $50,000 so veterans making more than $65,000 have to split a slightly smaller share of the cap.
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BC Fan, thank you so much :)
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Hambone
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The_Pauser wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:24 am
I can't see the Lions targeting a D-lineman at the draft considering we're clearly going with 4 Imports at D-line.

At the top end of the draft though, I'm not sure who will go to the NFL and who will realistically be available, especially since the top prospects are all at big NCAA colleges. Chase Claypool would probably be the top target, but being at Notre Dame and an NFL draft prospect he would probably be too risky for 3rd overall.

This seems to be a good draft for receivers though, and given we are likely to go with 3 Nationals at WR again it wouldn't hurt to have some depth and perhaps a guy who can push Shaq Johnson. I also wonder if we might look at JJ Molson in the second round?
I was looking ar Walter Football rankings 5 or 6 weeks ago. They project the current top two ranked CFL prospects Sooner DT Neville Gallimore and Irish WR Chase Claypool to both go high in the NFL Draft.

They have Gallimore ranked #4 NT and project he will go in either the 2nd or 3rd round. Some other mock drafts are projecting he could be a late 1st round pick.

Walter Football ranks Claypool #13 receiver in what some are saying is the deepest WR draft class in many years. They project him going anywhere from 2nd to 4th round. NFL teams will covet his 6'5" 205 frame.

Methinks it will take a team with a bunch of extra picks in the first 3 rounds to burn one on those 2. More likely a 5th round flyer similar to the one Wally used on Covington back in 2015 and he didn't go until the 6th round in the NFL. Wally also had an extra 5th burning a hole in his pocket. The following year the Riders rolled the dice with the last pick of the 4th round on David Onyemata. They also had the 1st pick in the 5th round. Onyemata was taken in the NFL 4th round by the Saints in what was thought to be a reach coming out of the CIS. Covington and Onyemata just finishe their 5th and 4th NFL seasons respectively and don't look like the CFL teams holding their rights will be rewarded for their patience anytime soon.

Hervey was known to gamble drafting guys with strong NFL interest such as Tevaun Smith and Arjen Colquhoun but they were signed as UDFAs not high draft picks. I don't mind him a late pick on Claypool as in 6th round or later. Unles he's a bust in the NFL probably wouldn't see him for 6 or 7 years at earliest.
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Correct me if I'm wrong BCF but say if Burnham, Lee and pick a name Johnson or Figueroa are declared hybrid NAT starters they still are counted as Americans on the overall roster game quota of 20? If that's the case I'm not sure of the actual impact of the change. Sounds like 3 of what were typically 16 AMER starters get reclassified with 13 of the remaining 17 AMERs still starting with the 4 DIs being the only AMER "backups". Right now for BC it looks like Rainey and a kicker or punter will chew up half of the DI
spots.

Seems to me if a true NAT goes down this new thing might give a team some flexibility in how they fill the void but not very much unless the injury happens to a position that conveniently lines up with the position of another AMER starter who qualifies as a hybrid NAT. And if one of their backup AMERs doesn't happen to play that position then they probably have to still use a backup NAT or maybe do a double switch of some sort.
Last edited by Hambone on Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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OV - 54:40
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Hambone - ALL CFL teams passed on Tyrone Crawford when he was the #1 rated prospect in the CFL draft back in the day (only example of this ever happening i can think of -an oustanding Canadian prospect totally CFL undrafted, even in the late rounds - cause they knew he was pretty well an NFL lock = doubtful to ever show in the CFL )- and they were proven right.

I bet Gallimore & Claypool might fall into this category - write-offs for CFL teams in draft thinking; but maybe worth a gamble with a later round pick in the hope they bomb in the NFL and are willing to show in the CFL ?

CFL teams have often used draft picks on NFL flight risks - some more obvious than others though. The Lions have had their share of burnt draft picks there - Tony Mandarich, Rob Meier, Osh Atogwe = zip-0. So stay away alltogether from Gallimore & BC guy Claypool (could draft local SFU receiver R. John instead maybe?)
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Hambone wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:09 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong BCF but say if Burnham, Lee and pick a name Johnson or Figueroa are declared hybrid NAT starters they still are counted as Americans on the overall roster game quota of 20? If that's the case I'm not sure of the actual impact of the change. Sounds like 3 of what were typically 16 AMER starters get reclassified with 13 of the remaining 16 AMERs still starting with the 4 DIs being the only AMER "backups". Right now for BC it looks like Rainey and a kicker or punter will chew up half of the DI
spots.

Seems to me if a true NAT goes down this new thing might give a team some flexibility in how they fill the void but not very much unless the injury happens to a position that conveniently lines up with the position of another AMER starter who qualifies as a hybrid NAT. And if one of their backup AMERs doesn't happen to play that position then they probably have to still use a backup NAT or maybe do a double switch of some sort.
True. Teams won't necessarily have to have Canadian backups for all their national starters but only 4 designated Americans could qualify as injury-replacement nationals, and only if they have 3 years' experience with the team or 4 years in the league. It will be interesting to see if teams dress more veteran American backups who could be used in that capacity.
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OV - 54:40 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:45 pm
I bet Gallimore & Claypool might fall into this category - write-offs for CFL teams in draft thinking; but maybe worth a gamble with a later round pick in the hope they bomb in the NFL and are willing to show in the CFL ?
Yea, as much as I love him, I wouldn't touch Claypool with a barge pole. I think he is going to have a long and prosperous NFL career. Funny, Chuba Hubbard got all the accolades and media love here in Canada, but I think Claypool is more pro-ready (I think Chuba realized this too and committed for another year at Oklahoma State). He probably wouldn't have been taken in the first few rounds of the NFL draft but I firmly believe Chase will, either in the first or second round.

As for former flight risks, I am still holding out hope that we will see Christian Covington in a Leos uniform one day. It would have to be a case of diminishing stats, age, and salary that could see him released and waived through the league. He did state once that he would love to play in BC. I am not saying anytime soon, but still hoping we will see him down the road before he "hangs 'em up."


DH :cool:
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cromartie wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:50 am
By the time all is said and done, the Sol E people are going to be as bad as the Casey Printers people were.

In this hypothetical trade of Boyko, are you throwing in the cape he takes on the field with him to waive opposing defenders through toward Mike?
Point taken. Please forgive the pleasant rememberances. Even as I figuratively bite my tongue regarding Travis Lulay every time I log on, at some point the past becomes the past. Sad in some cases. Hard to move forward when your always looking back.

That said I am not so sure about the direction this team is going. Nothing that a 11 - 7 record won't alleviate though.

I haven't seen enough about Boyko to know if he lives up to his hype. Foucault seemed about the same. Knevel recently touted as the future and then they sign Mathews. Throw in three more, one being Sukh Chung making as much as any, and it is a crowded position. Theoretically a position of strength which is a good thing.

Less rosy is the LB spot but who knows.

What they missed last year more than the talent was the leadership of all the vets they let go imo. Instead of stepping up they gave excuses and pointed fingers. Now another new ensemble at the wheel.

Truly hoping for the best.

Any thought on Ronnie Yell?
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B.C.FAN wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:06 pm
True. Teams won't necessarily have to have Canadian backups for all their national starters but only 4 designated Americans could qualify as injury-replacement nationals, and only if they have 3 years' experience with the team or 4 years in the league. It will be interesting to see if teams dress more veteran American backups who could be used in that capacity.
And typically outside of returners and kickers DI the remaining DI spots are held by guys fairly new to the CFL. Once in a while there is an exception for a positional player who would qualify as a hydrid- NAT.

BC's DIs in 2019 (note this does not include the final game of the season):
Castillo - 17 games
Lankford 12
Toomer - 9
Newsome - 6
Kolomatangi - 5
Allen - 4
Cheridor - 3
Louis - 3
Ketter - 3
Coleman - 1
Wright - 1
Ogundeko - 1
Haynes - 1
Gamboa - 1
Rutley - 1

Summarizing:
Kicker - 17 games
Returner - 12
DL - 33
LB - 1
DB - 4
RB - 1
WR - 0
OL - 0

One part of the new rules that I don't think is clear is if the criteria of 3 seasons with the same team or 4 in the CFL is to include the current season or is to be prior to the current season. If the former then amongst the above Castillo, Lankford, Newsome, Allen and Rutley would have qualified if this were in place last year. An example of this rule working would have been over the 6 or 7 games Menard started while Newsome was DI had Menard gone down the Lions had the option to replace him with Luke or Newsome. It's also an example of how it might take very certain circumstances to leverage it. While DLs were listed as DI for 33 games the Lions only showed 11 starts for NAT DL.

I would assume that the rules would follow definition of veteran player status which is the player must be on either a roster, injured list or disabled list for 7 or more games (playoff games and GC do count). I believe that really comes into play to establish the player as a vet initially with the player being considered a vet from then on out. If a player is a late season addition with no previous CFL time and only can count for 6 games or less he will not achieve veteran status. Lankford is an example. He joined the Riders very late in 2015 and played 1 game for the them. While last year was the 5th year he saw CFL action he wasn't considered a vet until seeing enough time in 2016. He was a 4th year vet last year.
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OV - 54:40 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:45 pm
Hambone - ALL CFL teams passed on Tyrone Crawford when he was the #1 rated prospect in the CFL draft back in the day (only example of this ever happening i can think of -an oustanding Canadian prospect totally CFL undrafted, even in the late rounds - cause they knew he was pretty well an NFL lock = doubtful to ever show in the CFL )- and they were proven right.

I bet Gallimore & Claypool might fall into this category - write-offs for CFL teams in draft thinking; but maybe worth a gamble with a later round pick in the hope they bomb in the NFL and are willing to show in the CFL ?

CFL teams have often used draft picks on NFL flight risks - some more obvious than others though. The Lions have had their share of burnt draft picks there - Tony Mandarich, Rob Meier, Osh Atogwe = zip-0. So stay away alltogether from Gallimore & BC guy Claypool (could draft local SFU receiver R. John instead maybe?)
When you compare Crawford, Gallimore & Claypool with Mandrich, Meier and Atogwe you're comparing apples and oranges when it comes to the draft.

When Crawford was drafted he was draft eligible for both drafts in the same year and the NFL Draft was already over nearly a week before the CFL Draft. All CFL GMs knew exactly what NFL thought of Crawford, he was worth a 3rd round pick. Probably didn't help that the CFL Draft was only 6 rounds long then too.

When Mandarich, Meier and Atogwe were drafted they were CFL draft eligible the year before the NFL Draft. Unlike today back then CFL teams didn't have the luxury of knowing how the prospect would play as a senior or when or if the player would be drafted or signed as a UDFA by the NFL. Today they do. If CFL teams had to make their call on Claypool after his junior season he could well have gone early in the 2019 Draft. Would they have known he'd go from 639 yards and 4 TDs as a junior the 1037 yards and 13 TDs as a senior?

Mandarich was already touted as a probably NFL 1st rounder when the 1988 CFL Draft took place. The CFL Draft had 8 rounds then and BC rolled the dice burning a 7th round pick. BC took Meier 1st in 1999. As it turned out a year later he was a bubble NFL pick going 241st out of 254. He was the 2nd last DL taken.. Atogwe was similar with his NFL status being unknown until the year following his selection in the CFL Draft. He had a great senior season which had his NFL stock listed as rising at the time of his NFL draft.

I'm happy with the way the CFL Draft rules work today as it gives teams the ability to make their decisions with full knowledge where their NFL prospects lie. At least it should remain that way unless Ambrosia-beetle gets his way and pushes the CFL season up even farther. They're getting to the point where another two weeks earlier will force them to again hold the draft before the NFL Draft.
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cms22
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why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
OV - 54:40
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Good points and details, Dale, but i was throwing in the older names in a general group of CFL draft / NFL flight risk types. Drafting NCAA guys a year earlier in CFL draft past presented some unknowns for GMs who would often roll the dice (player could also have had a career ending injury as a Senior instead of improving his stock with a fine season). I had forgotten about Covington till David mentioned him; Danny Watkins; Richard Mercier , Brett Romberg a few other examples to join Atogwe, Meier & Mandarich. I believe the Lions are the all-time CFL leaders for coming up snake-eyes with zip-o to show for some draft picks. :bang:

The real comparison is of Crawford to Claypool & Gallimore this year; CFL teams know both those guys are close to NFL locks - will any teams even gamble a late round pick ?
Last edited by OV - 54:40 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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