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OV - 54:40
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cms22 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
Lots of Canadian players have come home to play in the CFL after a decent NFL career.

Mike Schad, Tommy Kane just a couple of names from far back; Cory Greenwood and Jon Ryan are more recent examples.
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OV - 54:40 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:45 pm
cms22 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
Lots of Canadian players have come home to play in the CFL after a decent NFL career.

Mike Schad, Tommy Kane just a couple of names from far back; Cory Greenwood and Jon Ryan are more recent examples.
Quite a few have come back but for whatever reason many make minimal impact and their CFL careers fit cup of coffee status lasting no more than single digit games played. Kane played only 5 games and Schad 7 in their lone seasons after coming back home. Vaughn Martin had a similar CFL short stint signing for 2 years but playing only 7 games in his first year up in the CFL before being released. Greenwood's return has been much more productive and longer lasting despite his injury history. Ryan? Well he's a kicker. He should be OK for another couple of years.

Schad was 32 when he came back; Kane and Martin 30. I think they were pretty much spent by then or else they would have stayed south for a bit longer. Perhaps after having spent 5 to 7 years in the NFL and making decent coin they just found it hard to be motivated in the CFL or simply had too many hard miles on the body to play at the level they expected of themselves?

Seems like the later in the career they return the less impact they make to the point of being disappointments. That may be more magnified now given how much younger the league is. Just looking at BC's revamped roster they have 6 players over 29. In that group is Reilly (only one older than 31), 1 Mexican, KR Rainey and depth TB Rutley. Figueroa (31) and Johnson (30) are the only projected positional starters to crack into the thirtysomething range. The Lions are a much, much younger team than they were in Hervey's first year here.
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OV - 54:40 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:38 pm
Good points and details, Dale, but i was throwing in the older names in a general group of CFL draft / NFL flight risk types. Drafting NCAA guys a year earlier in CFL draft past presented some unknowns for GMs who would often roll the dice (player could also have had a career ending injury as a Senior instead of improving his stock with a fine season). I had forgotten about Covington till David mentioned him; Danny Watkins; Richard Mercier , Brett Romberg a few other examples to join Atogwe, Meier & Mandarich. I believe the Lions are the all-time CFL leaders for coming up snake-eyes with zip-o to show for some draft picks. :bang:

The real comparison is of Crawford to Claypool & Gallimore this year; CFL teams know both those guys are close to NFL locks - will any teams even gamble a late round pick ?
I knew there was another name I was forgetting in that draft BC took who didn't bear fruit and that was Mercier. However that was also a draft where BC literally had too many picks making less risk when it comes to gambling one or two on "futures". In the 1999 draft BC had 5 picks in the first 15 and 6 in the top 19. If I recall 3rd overall pick Greg Lotysz blew a knee either as a senior or in an NFL training camp and never played again. Mercier who was picked in the 5th round 93 spots ahead of Meier bounced around 3 different NFL clubs in his first 2 years. He never played a game and was out of football after 2001. With a double major in Accounting and Finance and minor in International Business he may have decided for a more lucrative career outside the sport. Romberg wasn't drafted signing as a UDFA with Jacksonville after graduating. Whenever it was looking like he might be ready to come north he found another NFL gig. He was a classic "hanger on". Despite bouncing around the NFL for 8 years he only played 44 games starting 18. By the time he saw his last NFL opportunity fade away he was already 32.
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cms22 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
Jim Mills and I am sure there are others did the NFL career and finish in the CFL. More common is the Boyko or Bo Lokumbo get some NFL chances but can't stick and then go to the CFL.
OV - 54:40
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Hambone wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:08 pm
OV - 54:40 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:45 pm
cms22 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
Lots of Canadian players have come home to play in the CFL after a decent NFL career.

Mike Schad, Tommy Kane just a couple of names from far back; Cory Greenwood and Jon Ryan are more recent examples.
Quite a few have come back but for whatever reason many make minimal impact and their CFL careers fit cup of coffee status lasting no more than single digit games played. Kane played only 5 games and Schad 7 in their lone seasons after coming back home. Vaughn Martin had a similar CFL short stint signing for 2 years but playing only 7 games in his first year up in the CFL before being released. Greenwood's return has been much more productive and longer lasting despite his injury history. Ryan? Well he's a kicker. He should be OK for another couple of years.

Schad was 32 when he came back; Kane and Martin 30. I think they were pretty much spent by then or else they would have stayed south for a bit longer. Perhaps after having spent 5 to 7 years in the NFL and making decent coin they just found it hard to be motivated in the CFL or simply had too many hard miles on the body to play at the level they expected of themselves?

Seems like the later in the career they return the less impact they make to the point of being disappointments. That may be more magnified now given how much younger the league is. Just looking at BC's revamped roster they have 6 players over 29. In that group is Reilly (only one older than 31), 1 Mexican, KR Rainey and depth TB Rutley. Figueroa (31) and Johnson (30) are the only projected positional starters to crack into the thirtysomething range. The Lions are a much, much younger team than they were in Hervey's first year here.

I wuz in attendance at Lansdowne for Schad's 1st game as a Rough Rider - almost positive it was against BC - watched him quite a bit and he looked strong / kicked-@$$ basically = hardly "done" (read afterwards that some BC D players were trying to get under his skin by razzing him as "Mr big-shot NFLer' or something like that). Too bad he suffered a serious career ending injury (the next TC i think?) cause he could have been a force on the Ottawa O-line for a number of years - a number of O-linemen have played strong in the CFL well into their late 30s.

OTOH - Vaughn Martin did not look that great in his bit of CFL work - maybe more a big body NFL DT type, but the guy was athletic plus had the knowledge of Canadian ball from playing at Western. Maybe dis-interested / not that into it ?

Who knows why a guy who has made pretty big bucks in the NFL for a number of years would want to show-up in the CFL to end their careers? - need the coin still, or maybe just love the game still and are proud to play in the pro league in their own country.

What is a bit puzzling to me, is the number of Canadian players who had a brief cup of coffee in the NFL but then never show up in the CFL after. Lots of examples. Ottawa drafted D-line M. Abdesmad (out of Div I US college ball) a few years back and he had a brief NFL tour, but i guess gave up on football after? - he could have perhaps been an instant starter for Ottawa. Maybe some of them think the CFL is beneath them or they can easily make better coin at another job? - but even making CFL coin for 6 months or so work playing a game you love and still able to explore other work opportunity - why not ? What happened with those 2 US college ball Canuck O-linemen the Lions drafted (in the same draft year i think?) - Richard Mercier and Greg Lotysz (?) - were they inured, dis-interested or did the Lions persue them after they did not pan out in the NFL? Why did Atogwe not show up in the CFL ?
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DanoT wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:40 pm
cms22 wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:30 pm
why wouldn't you take a NFL player beyond say the 2nd round? choose your round, but i think they should be draftable.

has any canadian actually done the "play the CFL after a reasonable NFL career"? just seems like you've made so much money, you have roots in some american city, you probably want to stay in the USA, get into coaching etc. etc. etc.
Jim Mills and I am sure there are others did the NFL career and finish in the CFL. More common is the Boyko or Bo Lokumbo get some NFL chances but can't stick and then go to the CFL.
Mills was much like Boyko. He tried the NFL for 2 years. He was still only 25 when he joined BC in 1986. Also if I recall Mills was a territorial protection as opposed to a draft pic as were many of BC's NI stalwarts back in the late 70s through to late 80s.
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Marshall Ferguson dissects the Lions of 2019 in this detailed article featuring some interesting charts and graphs. https://www.cfl.ca/2020/02/17/upon-review-bc-lions/
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it might be semantics or i might be wrong............ i wouldn't say Corey Greenwood had a significant NFL career. i'd have to check on the number of years. Boyko was there for a few years. some suggestion that lack of actual play harmed him. or is NFL technique/size just completely different?

chase claypool has been the star of the combine.......... running 4.42 and 40.5 inch vertical. i think both astounding for someone over 230 lbs. last WR to do that at that weight was Calvin Johnson......... just mentioned this for local interest. claypool was never coming to CFL after this season. i'd say not after last season too but that's debatable.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/new ... go97x5ies1

nice long interviews in the Province with claypool and jj molson from nfl combine. both came across great and claypool mentioned targeting a great 40 time. don't think he hit his goal........ both sounded like great people, molson especially given his heritage. very down to earth. open to CFL.
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nothing to do with CFL...

but i see a 364 pound lineman ran a 5.1 40..... that's outrageous.
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cms22 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:09 pm
nothing to do with CFL...

but i see a 364 pound lineman ran a 5.1 40..... that's outrageous.
the fastest lineman I ever saw was when Nick Benjamin ran down a DB or Linebacker who intercepted the ball, from behind about 40+ yards down field. Be interesting to know his time in 40. Did they even test for that back then?
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KnowItAll wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:20 pm
cms22 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:09 pm
nothing to do with CFL...

but i see a 364 pound lineman ran a 5.1 40..... that's outrageous.
the fastest lineman I ever saw was when Nick Benjamin ran down a DB or Linebacker who intercepted the ball, from behind about 40+ yards down field. Be interesting to know his time in 40. Did they even test for that back then?
Good memory and memories.

Could be wrong but I think it was David Shaw that Nick ran down. Might have been his rookie year.

Benjamin later signed in Winnipeg and was always a bit of a fan favorite there, If he would haven gotten a dollar for each time someone brought the story up he would have been a rich man.
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Gridiron Ernie wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:23 pm
Marshall Ferguson dissects the Lions of 2019 in this detailed article featuring some interesting charts and graphs. https://www.cfl.ca/2020/02/17/upon-review-bc-lions/
This article deserves a thread of its own. Not buried here as it's brilliant.

Good analysis for sure but overall the blame has to be on the OC.
Contrary to most other CFL passer target charts, Reilly worked the fringes in 2019. Not just the sidelines, but the deep sidelines on both sides. The percentage of his attempts in ‘traditionally’ high-volume areas was relatively low (outside numbers under 10 yards downfield), yet his work between the hashes at 10- to 20-yards downfield was well above league average (+1.59% from 2018) as was his tendency in what I call ‘the screen zone’ for right-handed quarterbacks (+3.31%)
Why these guys can't just say SCHEME and PLAY CALLING as I saw in practices exactly what they did in games. Predictable, stale and did not use talents well but sporadically - eg Duron Carter got kudos from Bombers Willie Jefferson recently when some fan said he was washed up. Jefferson said to ignore the guy as 'we all know what you can do in the right situation' ! My sentiments exactly. Jarius Jackson last year reminded me of my high school coach. Ran the right play to the wrong side of the field making that play useless as they were now waiting for it on the other!
Two things jumped out to me here.

The first is the barren wasteland that became the middle of the field for BC’s passing attack. Again, this could be pressure, scheme, preferences, receiver skill set or any other variable imaginable. But the reality is Reilly’s completion percentage down the heart of the defence changed in a way I could have never predicted or understood until analyzing after the season.
It's a must read article!
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:56 am
Duron Carter got kudos from Bombers Willie Jefferson recently when some fan said he was washed up. Jefferson said to ignore the guy as 'we all know what you can do in the right situation' ! My sentiments exactly.
Not sure why you keep beating this dead horse. He has played on 4 teams. Was released mid season by two of them (Als, Riders), and had no impact with the other two (Argos, Lions). He has been a free agent for 3+ months. He owns his share of the blame for the way his career has unfolded.
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i hope they calibrated their timing equipment........ seems like there have been at least 4 historically fast runs so far. i realize some of it is definitional but i don't remember this in previous years.

another canadian ran a blistering time.. neville gallimore, DT, at 304 pounds, ran a 4.79. never been done before. another DT did the approx the same as neville.

so 4 wow times so far, and 2 are canadians....... taylor, TB from wisconsin, had great time too but not sure if it was unprecedented.
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i saw a tape of a kid from winnipeg. the cousin of refrigerator perry. tristen bedin, listed at 420 lbs in 3rd year at manitoba (2018)

this kid i think was 350 lb or more in high school. maybe much more ...... the tape of him i saw he was chasing down tailbacks downfield, maybe with a slight cutback by the TB.

he went to university of manitoba football but never saw much mention of him
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