Off-season / FA sigings & losses and draft implications

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

OV - 54:40
Champion
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Ottawa

Wonder where Ed & co. will look in the draft after all the recent roster moves?

Lions top 4 picks are #s 3, 12, 23 & 40 (at this point).

Loss of both Menard & Luke on the D-line ( i predicted Maciocia would go after one or both) - might be some need for new NI D-line talent - and IMO there is a pretty decent crop at both positions.

A safety prospect perhaps - to back-up or maybe even challenge for an open starter job? A few good safety possibilities this draft IMO.

Plenty of NI O-line talent on the roster, so don't see a real need there ? - but CFL thinking often targets Canadian O-linemen - as futures or good ole depth.

Good receiver crop this draft too - but not sure any are going to challenge for playing time right away with Durant, Johnson, Cottoy in place (i'd wager lots there will only be 2 NI starting receivers under Campbell) - so depth / futures there ?


User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6581
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG and back working in Mackenzie for the next few months.

You would lose that wager re; receivers. Main reason Campbell always went with 1 or at most 2 NAT receivers is that he never had better than Sinopoli (who is outstanding) and a bunch of journeyman calibre hobos. He never had the likes of a raw but quickly improving talent like Cottoy to be in that 5th WR spot which is usually combined with a rotational NAT FB to be a starting position.

With the signing of Mathews and allowing Luke and Menard to walk I think it's blatantly obvious the plan is to have 6 NAT starters on O and 1 on D; 3 OL, 2 WR, 1 WR/FB (depending on how the want to write up the game roster) and either an OLB or S on D. If somebody steps up at LB or in the secondary they could go with 2 on D.

To be honest Cottoy excited me more than any other newcomer last year. Coming from CJFL he was very raw compared to somebody out of the CIS or NCAA ranks. Regardless he displayed characteristics in a BC receiver I had not seen since Jason Clermont. Wanna tackle him then be prepared to absorb some punishment because he will try to run you over with his 230# frame. If Campbell can't see than then Hervey hired the wrong guy.

Maybe I'm over-estimating Cottoy's potential but after watching him progress from what he was in the first couple of days in last year's training camp into a regular season starter and then watching him improve as the season went on my biggest fear is that the more he plays and develops the more the NFL will take notice. When he showed up in Kamloops the hope was he'd show enough for BC to keep him as a junior exemption and allow him to continue playing CJFL ball while attending Lion practices. By the end of camp he had earned a starting spot.
Last edited by Hambone on Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.


You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
MVP
MVP
Posts: 10983
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Hambone wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:47 pm
You would lose that wager re; receivers. Main reason Campbell always went with 1 or at most 2 NAT receivers is that he never had better than Sinopoli (who is outstanding) and a bunch of journeyman calibre hobos. He never had the likes of a raw but quickly improving talent like Cottoy to be in that 5th WR spot which is usually combined with a rotational NAT FB to be a starting position.

With the signing of Mathews and allowing Luke and Menard to walk I think it's blatantly obvious the plan is to have 6 NAT starters on O and 1 on D; 3 OL, 2 WR, 1 WR/FB (depending on how the want to write up the game roster) and either an OLB or S on D. If somebody steps up at LB or in the secondary they could go with 2 on D.
Agreed. And if you add 3 nationalized Americans, as defined under the CBA this year, Bryan Burnham and Joel Figueroa (and others) would qualify on offence and T.J. Lee on defence, giving the Lions a possible 8 national starters on offence and 2 on defence.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
OV - 54:40
Champion
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Ottawa

Hambone wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:47 pm
You would lose that wager re; receivers. Main reason Campbell always went with 1 or at most 2 NAT receivers is that he never had better than Sinopoli (who is outstanding) and a bunch of journeyman calibre hobos. He never had the likes of a raw but quickly improving talent like Cottoy to be in that 5th WR spot which is usually combined with a rotational NAT FB to be a starting position.

With the signing of Mathews and allowing Luke and Menard to walk I think it's blatantly obvious the plan is to have 6 NAT starters on O and 1 on D; 3 OL, 2 WR, 1 WR/FB (depending on how the want to write up the game roster) and either an OLB or S on D. If somebody steps up at LB or in the secondary they could go with 2 on D.

I'll take that bet; Campbell lately had a host of mediocre to useless import hobo receivers he favored in Ottawa; a little used H-back can go in for a few plays a game and they take out a starting import receiver or maybe Johnson at WR - that's what happened in Ottawa often - it was not Sinopoli who came out for the H-back.

Herdman & Konar not going to get a real shot to play LB (MLB & Will) ? - sad if that is the case, IMO. As far as a safety - should be open to real competition and a good prospect from the draft could step-up there. Same deal for a DT & DE via the draft - possible impact players right away; but not if it's standard pencilled-in thinking.


User avatar
Hambone
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6581
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 10:25 pm
Location: Living in PG and back working in Mackenzie for the next few months.

Konar's days as a starting LB are over. IMO when it comes to MLB he's Javy Glatt-Lite or Javy Glatt 2.0. Take your pick. His value is as a depth guy who plays primarily ST but has enough experience to chip in as a mid game injury fill in. That can bring value. I don't know where to find the stats but it has been reported that he's near the league lead in missed tackles.

Herman-Reed remains a bit intriguing but one has to ask why BC moved Maleki Harris from OLB, a position I think better suits him, to MLB thus pushing Herman-Reed to a back up role. I don't have access to the stats and grading system Stubler may have used in making that determination but can only assume JHR wasn't meeting the expectations of the staff. Maybe Campbell will be taking a fresh look at that given the have not re-signed Harris. Kevin. Haynes looked pretty good playing MLB when given the reps so maybe that is a factor in not re-upping Harris.


You're as old as you've ever been and as young as you're ever going to be.
OV - 54:40
Champion
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Ottawa

Hambone wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:41 pm
Konar's days as a starting LB are over. IMO when it comes to MLB he's Javy Glatt-Lite or Javy Glatt 2.0. Take your pick. His value is as a depth guy who plays primarily ST but has enough experience to chip in as a mid game injury fill in. That can bring value. I don't know where to find the stats but it has been reported that he's near the league lead in missed tackles.

Herman-Reed remains a bit intriguing but one has to ask why BC moved Maleki Harris from OLB, a position I think better suits him, to MLB thus pushing Herman-Reed to a back up role. I don't have access to the stats and grading system Stubler may have used in making that determination but can only assume JHR wasn't meeting the expectations of the staff. Maybe Campbell will be taking a fresh look at that given the have not re-signed Harris. Kevin. Haynes looked pretty good playing MLB when given the reps so maybe that is a factor in not re-upping Harris.
Konar was basically outstanding (IMO) when he got to play some regular reps for the Esks at OLB, but maybe he's washed-up now at his old age; love to see where these supposed missed tackle stats come from - Awe would have been a league leader there. "intriguing" indeed why Herdman fell out of favor from that genius defensive mind Nice Hat Claybrooks; i can guess a reason.


User avatar
B.C.FAN
MVP
MVP
Posts: 10983
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Much to my disappointment, Konar was a non-factor on defence and STs as a Lion last year. Derek Taylor, who keeps stats for missed tackles, mentioned last year that Konar missed 23% of his tackle opportunities as an Eskimo in 2017 and 2018. In 2019 Solomon Elimimian was the league's surest tackler among linebackers, missing only 8% of his tackles, according to Taylor. Simoni Lawrence was next best at 12%. The average LB was about 17%. Here are Taylor's league leaders for 2019:

https://twitter.com/DTonSC/status/12272 ... 88/photo/1


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
OV - 54:40
Champion
Posts: 726
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:56 am
Location: Ottawa

B.C.FAN wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:30 pm
Much to my disappointment, Konar was a non-factor on defence and STs as a Lion last year. Derek Taylor, who keeps stats for missed tackles, mentioned last year that Konar missed 23% of his tackle opportunities as an Eskimo in 2017 and 2018. In 2019 Solomon Elimimian was the league's surest tackler among linebackers, missing only 8% of his tackles, according to Taylor. Simoni Lawrence was next best at 12%. The average LB was about 17%. Here are Taylor's league leaders for 2019:

https://twitter.com/DTonSC/status/12272 ... 88/photo/1
I have about as much faith or confidence in those so called missed tackle stats as i have for QB efficiency ratings (total joke IMO); the missed tackle "stat" would be fraught with subjectivity and question marks. Taylor is a CFL keener of some sort i guess with his stats, and interesting and all, but buying some of his numbers or projections as gospel is a mistake.

I'll go with over-all / pure play-making stats as a good indicator for D players - not just # of tackles, but INTs, sacks, forced and recovered fumbles, pass knock-downs; but you could also argue that it has a lot to do with scheme or fellow defenders around you doing their job. I know what i saw on the field when Konar played lots at OLB for the Esks in 2017 (just 12 games according to one stats page) - play-making galore; maybe i missed a whole bunch of the supposed missed tackles he had though.


Murdoch
Rookie
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:04 pm

MLB whichever way they go will benefit greatly from the presence of Micah Johnson.

Insert whine about Sol E reportedly signed by Sask for $165,000.

No doubt Maleki Harris was a Claybrooks guy but showed promise imo. Good size and only 27. Liked Herdman Reed two years ago. Haynes on the ELC is a lock.

Will be interesting.


maxlion
Champion
Posts: 911
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 12:49 am

Didn't Guzylak-Messam start a bunch of games at linebacker last year? Between him, Konar and Herdman-Reed, I can see one linebacker position being National. Maybe one other national on D, safety or defensive line.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see 3 Americans on the offensive line again. Depends on how things work out at centre and whether Cottoy can build on his rookie year. If you can start 2 on D, that gives options on offense.


User avatar
B.C.FAN
MVP
MVP
Posts: 10983
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

maxlion wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:01 am
Didn't Guzylak-Messam start a bunch of games at linebacker last year? Between him, Konar and Herdman-Reed, I can see one linebacker position being National. Maybe one other national on D, safety or defensive line.

I wouldn't be too surprised to see 3 Americans on the offensive line again. Depends on how things work out at centre and whether Cottoy can build on his rookie year. If you can start 2 on D, that gives options on offense.
The previous coaching staff loved Guzylak-Messam. They pencilled him in as starter at field corner. That lasted two days of camp. After trying Dom
Termansen and Anthony Thompson there, they eventually went with an American corner. Guzykak-Messam was tried at safety before being moved to WILL. He showed some good instincts there against the run but he missed a lot of tackles. He might be best suited for SAM if he can improve his tackling but that has never been a national position.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
Murdoch
Rookie
Posts: 85
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:04 pm

Call it unlikely at best.

What about Brett Boyko to the Riders straight up for Sol E? I suspect a positive fan reaction on both ends.

Sask oline took a hit and they just signed St John so chances are they listen. BC could, and likely will, do worse than Sol. Boyko possibly headed home next year anyway.

I think Sask knows the gem they have on a two year deal and would pass. Maybe not.


User avatar
David
MVP
MVP
Posts: 8765
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

Murdoch wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:55 am
Call it unlikely at best.

What about Brett Boyko to the Riders straight up for Sol E? I suspect a positive fan reaction on both ends.

Sask oline took a hit and they just signed St John so chances are they listen. BC could, and likely will, do worse than Sol. Boyko possibly headed home next year anyway.

I think Sask knows the gem they have on a two year deal and would pass. Maybe not.
I really don't see this happening. Ed's MO is to not spend big $$ on linebackers which is why neither Biggie nor Solly ended up (staying) in BC. I don't think we can afford Solly's reported $165,000 salary, particularly if we spend on a WR. Love Solly and all, but he turns 34 this year. He is a diminishing asset with maybe another year or two left.

Boyko is going to have to really impress at camp to nail down a starter's role, but is a really good utility man. Depth along the O-line is required.


DH :cool:


Please sell the team, Mr. Braley.
CrazyCanuck89
Rookie
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:02 pm

OV - 54:40 wrote:
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:54 pm
Wonder where Ed & co. will look in the draft after all the recent roster moves?

Lions top 4 picks are #s 3, 12, 23 & 40 (at this point).

Loss of both Menard & Luke on the D-line ( i predicted Maciocia would go after one or both) - might be some need for new NI D-line talent - and IMO there is a pretty decent crop at both positions.

A safety prospect perhaps - to back-up or maybe even challenge for an open starter job? A few good safety possibilities this draft IMO.

Plenty of NI O-line talent on the roster, so don't see a real need there ? - but CFL thinking often targets Canadian O-linemen - as futures or good ole depth.

Good receiver crop this draft too - but not sure any are going to challenge for playing time right away with Durant, Johnson, Cottoy in place (i'd wager lots there will only be 2 NI starting receivers under Campbell) - so depth / futures there ?
I could see the Lions taking Cam Lawson DT or Mason Bennett DE at 3. For the 12th pick you guys will stay in your own backyard and draft the safety from UBC, who was supposed to go in last years draft.


User avatar
The_Pauser
Legend
Posts: 2492
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 12:36 pm

I can't see the Lions targeting a D-lineman at the draft considering we're clearly going with 4 Imports at D-line.

At the top end of the draft though, I'm not sure who will go to the NFL and who will realistically be available, especially since the top prospects are all at big NCAA colleges. Chase Claypool would probably be the top target, but being at Notre Dame and an NFL draft prospect he would probably be too risky for 3rd overall.

This seems to be a good draft for receivers though, and given we are likely to go with 3 Nationals at WR again it wouldn't hurt to have some depth and perhaps a guy who can push Shaq Johnson. I also wonder if we might look at JJ Molson in the second round?


Roar you Lions roar!
Post Reply