Who Got the Better Coach - Ottawa or BC?

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Who Got the Better Coach - Ottawa or BC?

Ottawa
4
29%
BC
6
43%
Both - coaches are equal
4
29%
Neither both picked wrong guy
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14
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Coast Mountain Lion
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I voted both equal. However, both GMs are on thin ice and Desjardins's is probably thinner. Would LaPo be in line to end up as Coach and GM in Ottawa?
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cromartie
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One guy built an expansion team from scratch into a Grey Cup Champion.

The other guy was 16-28.

This isn't a hard question to answer.
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Being a Head Coach and being a really, really good coordinator require significantly different sets of skills. You can be a really good line manager and make efficient decisions in the heat of a moment (which is a skill utilized by a Head Coach) but not necessarily have a full set of ongoing management skills (how to organize and lead an organization, manage coordinators, players and logistics and provide substantial input in all three facets of the game while managing limited practice time priorities and roster management debates).

If every good coordinator was also a great Head Coach, we'd all be lionizing Adam Rita for leading our late 1990s five consecutive cup domination run.

Good Head Coaches build sustainable programs (though they are not without their blind spots).

Good coordinators as mediocre head coaches have up and down years and manage the roster they're dealt.
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B.C.FAN
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If past records were used to choose a head coach, the correct option would be "none of the above." Campbell's head coaching record is 44-62-2 (.417) and LaPolice's is 16-28 (.363). Both got their teams to the Grey Cup (three times in six seasons for Campbell and once in 2 1/2 seasons for LaPolice) but a major concern of mine is how Campbell's Redblacks became the league's laughingstocks last year, going 1-15 after a 2-0 start. Campbell seemed helpless on the sidelines as his team put together a string of listless performances. Their record included two losses by a combined score of 69-12 to the Lions, who showed major improvement in the second half of the season after a 1-10 start under DeVone Claybrooks. The 5-13 Lions at least played hard all year and had the league's best defence in the second half of the season. The 3-15 Redblacks were uncompetitive for most of the season and had the league's worst defence. That reflects poorly on the head coach.
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David
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I don't think Vince Lombardi could have done much with that group of sad sacks in Ottawa last season. At best we saw second stringers playing quarterback. Dominique Davis started well then went completely south. Jennings (as usual) lost his mojo early and could only complete his check downs. If it was being thrown over 20 yards, it was going to a different colored jersey. Arnt showed some promise but that's about it.

Here's a list of players they lost prior to 2019:
Diontae Spencer
Trevor Harris
Greg Ellingson
SirVincent Rogers
William Powell
Rico Murray
A.C. Leonard

Here's a list of FAs they added prior to 2019:
Chris Randle
Jonathon Jennings

That's a hell of a net loss. Then injuries hit them after a couple of promising wins and they couldn't recover. If they held a fire sale tomorrow, about the only players I'd pick are Mateas, Fontana, and MacMillan (all Nationals). Sinopoli and Pruneau likely too, but they have a lot of wear and tear. Avery Ellis and Dominique Rhymes for sure. Probably Leone on special teams and maybe Ward if I didn't have anything better.


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Hambone
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Ottawa couldn't do anything about Spencer. He left for the NFL. No CFL team can win that battle. As for QB Desjardins is arguably guilty of misreading the market. Vertlieb had total control over that. He had all the top QBS in his stable and pulled the market strings like a master puppeteer. He knew the thinking of at least 5 GMs in terms of how far they'd go and what they'd pay. I believe he tried to leverage that in dealing with Ottawa. Who in their wildest dreams thought Reilly would get north of $700K until he actually signed and that Harris would command in the $550K range in. Edmonton? I think Campbell played a big part in Ottawa balking at Harris for that sort of money. His assessment on Davis' potential had to play a big part in the decision making re: Harris.

Losing Harris probably led to Ellingson following not unlike how Darren Flutie and Danny McManus became a package deal wherever they went.

Hard to say if Rogers was a loss or not because there's no way to assess his impact in Edmonton. He was lost to injury early and missed most if not all of the season.

Powell was probably the biggest loss and easiest to retain.

Murray and Leonard are good players but hardly irreplaceable.

As for Leone and Ward, both pending FAs, hell yeah. I'd take them in a heartbeat over Bartell and Castillo, all due respect to Sergio.
Last edited by Hambone on Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David
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I realize Spencer chose the NFL. This was not an indictment on Desjardins in this context. My point was to show all of the roster losses and what Campbell had to work with in 2019. Perhaps we should suspend judgment on him as a coach here and just give him a mulligan on an overall train wreck of a season.

Did the players "quit" on him? Hard to say but I don't think so. I don't believe there was disharmony in the locker room. I think they were just so devoid of talent across the board that they routinely got their a$$es kicked. As we discovered ourselves too, once the losing mentality takes hold, it's really hard to alter.


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JohnnyMusso
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David I disagree with you about Ward. I feel he is the best kicker in the league. The guy set a record for most field goals in a row completely shattering the old mark in his rookie year. If Ottawa lets him go, I would sign him quickly if I were the Lions. Maybe he dropped off a bit in year 2, but saw enough in his rookie year to convince me he may have a long career.
Last edited by JohnnyMusso on Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
maxlion
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If you are weak at QB, you better have a great RB. If you have neither, then your OC better be something special. Last year, Redblacks were weak at QB, RB, and had the worst OC in the league by a wide margin. Can't win like that.
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David
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JohnnyMusso wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:09 pm
David I disagree with you about Ward. I feel he is the best kicker in the league. The guy set a record for most field goals in a row completely shattering the old mark in his record year. If Ottawa lets him go, I would sign him quickly if I were the Lions. Maybe he dropped off a bit in year 2, but saw enough in his rookie year to convince me he may have a long career.
I suppose you're right given that he's a National; I was more speaking in general terms. We had a first-rate kicker in Castillo this past season (even though he was released to try out down south...he still might come back). I thought Ward came back down to earth a bit last season. Castillo had a success rate of 91.1% (best in the league) whereas Ward's FG percentage was 86% (tied for 4th in the 9-team circuit).

Ideally, I would rather find a Hajrullahu or Bede who can handle both duties well.


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JohnnyMusso
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I would not mind them bringing back Richie Leone. He will not make the NFL and is a very good punter. Our punting was brutal last year and we are in need of a serious upgrade. I hope Hervey puts more effort in finding one this season than he did last year.
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David
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A final word on Campbell. I am not putting everything solely at the feet of the players. He did make some boneheaded decisions last year, to wit, the decision (late) to take a safety and kick-off when he had the most powerful right leg in the CFL standing on the sidelines, and a D that had kept the Stamps in check all game. Of course, it backfired. The kick-off didn't go particularly far and was run back 20-30 yards IIRC putting the Stamps in excellent field position. A couple of completions later they kicked a field goal to win 17-16 and Campbell had to do a mea culpa the next day.

But overall I think he is a strong leader and good tactician and certainly capable of working with Ed and making us a contender once again.


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don corleone
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Hambone wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:51 pm
Vertlieb had total control over that. He had all the top QBS in his stable and pulled the market strings like a master puppeteer. He knew the thinking of at least 5 GMs
Bizarre that one agent represents all the qb's. Worked out good for Matt Nichols.
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