Who Stays and Who Goes??

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cms22
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cromartie wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:03 pm

I'm not even taking anyone who calls Carter a cancer seriously at this point. He's a bad fit on the scheme as it's currently constituted, but there are less expensive alternatives for the production we're getting from the position. He's remade himself into a decent locker room guy, however. If he stays? Cool. If he doesn't? Also cool, but he's done what was asked of him and contributes in ways not obvious to the couch OCs out there.
how are you anything more than a couch analyst yourself?..... wow, pot calling the kettle black.

Carter is a mentally deranged, self-absorbed PoS... very very bad for team culture......... what's the last winning team he played on?

even in the NFL, do the major self-absorbed mentally unbalanced types play on winning teams? do teams get better when they join? i'd say no. do teams get better when they leave? i'm inclined to say yes, but not sure if data bears that out.

i hate to ape Glenn Suitor, but character/culture is a huge factor for a team's success...... new england wins coinsistently with few elite players. players that are elite weren't before they played for NE.
cms22
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can cfl teams negotiate a player's salary down? and saving money, not deferring money.

i'm thinking most leagues don't allow this, directly or indirectly.

definitely cut reilly's pay significantly if you can....................yes, i know he's one of the premier CFL QB's who hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years and was leader of 1-10 team. how would we have done without reilly? 0-11? 2-9?
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B.C.FAN
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cms22 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:44 pm
can cfl teams negotiate a player's salary down? and saving money, not deferring money.

i'm thinking most leagues don't allow this, directly or indirectly.

definitely cut reilly's pay significantly if you can....................yes, i know he's one of the premier CFL QB's who hasn't made the playoffs in 2 years and was leader of 1-10 team. how would we have done without reilly? 0-11? 2-9?
Yes, teams can negotiate a player’s salary down. It usually involves adding more term and perhaps more money up front. The Lions have done it with other star players and may do it to Chungh and a few others next year. If they refuse, teams can release them. I doubt that it happens with Reilly, though.
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The_Pauser
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cms22 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:42 pm

how are you anything more than a couch analyst yourself?..... wow, pot calling the kettle black.

Carter is a mentally deranged, self-absorbed PoS... very very bad for team culture......... what's the last winning team he played on?

even in the NFL, do the major self-absorbed mentally unbalanced types play on winning teams? do teams get better when they join? i'd say no. do teams get better when they leave? i'm inclined to say yes, but not sure if data bears that out.

i hate to ape Glenn Suitor, but character/culture is a huge factor for a team's success...... new england wins coinsistently with few elite players. players that are elite weren't before they played for NE.
I've asked you once, and you conveniently ignored me, so I'll ask you again: what evidence do you have to support your claim?

Everything I've seen and heard suggests you are way off base with your assessment of Carter. I get a lot of people don't like him. I've witnessed first hand people trolling him and attacking him on social media. Just because he doesn't sit there and take it, and because he's willing to comment back and stand up for himself doesn't mean he's mentally deranged. Nor does it mean he's bad for team culture. His teammates love him.

My issue with Carter (and perhaps it's my fault for viewing him as the number 2 receiver on paper) is that the production hasn't been anywhere near good enough. He's not the same Duron Carter game breaker that he was in Montreal. I would absolutely look for an upgrade and would probably take a run at Derel Walker in the off-season assuming he would be willing to take less money than what Toronto gave him this year. That most likely means Duron's money goes to Walker. If we could afford both, along with Burnham, Durant, and Cottoy, great. I don't see it though. But in terms of him being a quality teammate, that's as much of a concern to me as it is with Brian Burnham or Mike Reilly. I'm not at all concerned.
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JohnnyMusso
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The Lions will not cut any vet before the end of the year. I also think they will start their best lineup and the 2nd stringers and anyone on the practice will not play until last game. I agree with someone here who said Hervey and Claybrooks are trying to save their jobs and will want to win. They will not of course for Riders and Stamps battling for first and no way they will lose to the Lions.

At the end of the year, I will answer the topic's question, but for now will just say Jarious Jackson needs to be fired. No 1 guy that needs to go. Even Joe Paopao would be better.
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David
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JohnnyMusso wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:44 pm
...Jarious Jackson needs to be fired. No 1 guy that needs to go. Even Joe Paopao would be better.
Oh, come on now. :roll:


DH :cool:
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JohnnyMusso
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Joe Paopao has a lot of experience and been around the game way longer than Jackson. He is not doing great in Ottawa because they have no QB and are a terrible team. I would not hire him to replace Jackson, but given the choice between the 2 I would pick Joe. I think he is way smarter than Jackson.

As for Ottawa, their GM should be fired. He let go too many vets because he was too cheap to pay them and it blew up in his face. Gone from first in the East to dead last in the league. He deserves to be fired. No faith in that guy.
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David
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Joe is a nice guy but is a disaster as a coach. Look at his club's records - pro or college, anything he comes near. .311 winning percentage in the pros and .188 in college (Waterloo). This is just his head coaching records, his stints as assistants may be worse. He's the living embodiment of Bad Luck Schleprock.

Jeez, we just laid 55 points on Toronto and you're suggesting Joe would be better than Jarious?!?


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JohnnyMusso
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David thanks for the stats. I am not saying Joe is a great or good coach, just was saying he would be better than Jarious Jackson. Yes BC scored 55 on the Argos, but let's get serious, Glen Suitor said the Argos played so bad in that first half it was not up to the level of a pro team. They had 3 turnovers in that first quarter giving BC the ball inside their zone. Lions scoring 55 had more to do with the Argos being terrible. And Reilly had his best game as a Lion. A few games does not make a Jackson a good coach. If Lions are to be better next year, Jackson must be fired in the off season. He is terrible OC.

As for Joe, well he coached some very bad teams in Ottawa being an expansion team and BC when they were really bad. Even Bud Grant could not have made that team into a winner
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Mere speculation, but I think that there is a very good possibility that Ed won't be around past the end of the year.

His reputation has always been that he is a prickly personality but a good judge of talent. He is still prickly, but there are lots of questions about his judgement of talent the past two years.

The deciding factor is the timing of the sale of the team and whether he is perceived as an asset or liability in completing the sale. If he is seen as a liability, he will be gone. I think that this is likely.

It is also likely that a new owner will want his own GM. If Hervey is gone before a new owner takes over, look for McEvoy to be interim GM. If a sale goes through earlier, my money would be on Geroy. New start, recognizable face, paid his dues (or some of them anyways).

Claybrooks will stay. He deserves a second chance and they can't afford to throw him overboard with 2 years remaining on his contract. Only caveat is if there is a player mutiny against him, but that looks unlikely.

As for assistant coaches, if Hervey is here, he will want to have a big say on who stays and who goes. I think Hervey keeps Jarious, but replaces Stubler (return of Bene?). If Hervey is gone, it will be up to Claybrooks. Jackson will likely be gone, perhaps replaced by Dinwoodie from Calgary if they can lure him here.

Just mere speculation. I've always kind of liked Hervey...but then again I've never worked with him.
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maxlion wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:47 pm
Mere speculation, but I think that there is a very good possibility that Ed won't be around past the end of the year.

His reputation has always been that he is a prickly personality but a good judge of talent. He is still prickly, but there are lots of questions about his judgement of talent the past two years.

The deciding factor is the timing of the sale of the team and whether he is perceived as an asset or liability in completing the sale. If he is seen as a liability, he will be gone. I think that this is likely.

It is also likely that a new owner will want his own GM. If Hervey is gone before a new owner takes over, look for McEvoy to be interim GM. If a sale goes through earlier, my money would be on Geroy. New start, recognizable face, paid his dues (or some of them anyways).

Claybrooks will stay. He deserves a second chance and they can't afford to throw him overboard with 2 years remaining on his contract. Only caveat is if there is a player mutiny against him, but that looks unlikely.

As for assistant coaches, if Hervey is here, he will want to have a big say on who stays and who goes. I think Hervey keeps Jarious, but replaces Stubler (return of Bene?). If Hervey is gone, it will be up to Claybrooks. Jackson will likely be gone, perhaps replaced by Dinwoodie from Calgary if they can lure him here.

Just mere speculation. I've always kind of liked Hervey...but then again I've never worked with him.
Between an earlier rumour that Hervey already has an agreed upon 1 year extension and the potential impending sale I don't think he'll be going anywhere until after next season. It makes little sense to me for LeLacheur and Braley to be letting Hervey go after the season and to hang a new GM on the new owners. I'd also think it would be a less than attractive situation for anybody other than someone inhouse to consider. Hey! How would you like to be the new BC GM? Can't tell you who will own the team or who you will report to but don't worry. Even for possible internal candidates such as McAvoy or Simon it might be one they are reluctant to jump at given it would likely be offered on an interim basis until ownership was resolved.

I believe that given the possible sale of the club, which could happen shortly after the season or not until well after most teams have already filled any offseason vacancies, the best move for the club is to have Hervey continue for 2020. November 3rd will signify the start of locker room cleaning out and with it the official start of offseason planning and decision making. Unless that also coincides with new ownership having the keys to the club then best to stay status quo with both Hervey and Claybrooks for 2020. New ownership can then make a call on them at the end of 2020 when they've had a chance to get their feet wet and can make a well informed decision. I do however expect some significant changes in Claybrooks' staff but those are never ownership calls anyways.
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Gridiron Ernie
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Very interesting speculation, maxlion. About Hervey being kept or not; absolutely agree about a pivotal deciding factor being the timing of the sale of the team and whether Hervey is perceived as asset or liability towards getting the sale done. Whether or not that's likely (i.e. that he's deemed a liability), I can't say. But you make a strong point in questioning his supposed strength for judging talent during his time with us.

Hmm... about Geroy eventually taking over, I'm not at all against the notion of "eventually", but wonder if he's ready yet. But that would be refreshing for sure. If it happened I wouldn't be terribly alarmed, just a little bit worried.

Btw, I enjoyed your "but then again" qualifier in your closing line. Exactly, eh. Prickly colleagues and/or bosses can surely make workaday life miserable. I wonder though if Hervey's commonly day-to-day that way with his coaches and players. But he has had his outbursts for sure, I won't deny it. I won't really miss him if he goes.
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Hambone wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:46 pm

Between an earlier rumour that Hervey already has an agreed upon 1 year extension and the potential impending sale I don't think he'll be going anywhere until after next season. It makes little sense to me for LeLacheur and Braley to be letting Hervey go after the season and to hang a new GM on the new owners. I'd also think it would be a less than attractive situation for anybody other than someone inhouse to consider. Hey! How would you like to be the new BC GM? Can't tell you who will own the team or who you will report to but don't worry. Even for possible internal candidates such as McAvoy or Simon it might be one they are reluctant to jump at given it would likely be offered on an interim basis until ownership was resolved.

I believe that given the possible sale of the club, which could happen shortly after the season or not until well after most teams have already filled any offseason vacancies, the best move for the club is to have Hervey continue for 2020. November 3rd will signify the start of locker room cleaning out and with it the official start of offseason planning and decision making. Unless that also coincides with new ownership having the keys to the club then best to stay status quo with both Hervey and Claybrooks for 2020. New ownership can then make a call on them at the end of 2020 when they've had a chance to get their feet wet and can make a well informed decision. I do however expect some significant changes in Claybrooks' staff but those are never ownership calls anyways.
This has been my thinking until recently as well, and I would not be surprised if it turns out as you describe.

However, the Lions' situation is not good. Bad team, declining attendance (for many years), little interest in the local market.

Can a new owner sell Hervey? He has a certain gruff charisma, but basically he is very private and hard to connect with. Rumours from Edmonton and here that he is hard to work with. And the results on the field are underwhelming.

I'm just not sure that a new owner would be willing to stick with him for another year, especially when you have a "local" hero waiting in the wings. Argos just hired Pinball. Could Geroy be our Pinball?
VictoriaFan
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I'm wondering if DLC Corey Mace could be lured over from Calgary to be DC, I think Claybrooke and him are good friends and he was born in Vancouver and has family there
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B.C.FAN
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If Stubler doesn't return, it's most likely that Claybrooks would take over as DC. Many other CFL head coaches have served as offensive or defensive coordinators in recent years, and the coaching cap makes that scenario even more likely now, especially if a team is paying off a fired coach or GM.
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