Who Stays and Who Goes??

[VictoriaFan]

OC, STC, DC, Carter, Chung, Konar, Willis, O'Brian, Bartel, whoever plays mlb, can't even who it is there's been so many,Messam? Grymes.

[B.C.FAN]

Before his injury, Grymes was having an all-star-calibre season. Here are some stats tracked by Nik Kowalski, managing editor for
@LastWordOnCFL, after Week 16:

[Luck1sOnOurSid3]

I can’t really make any recommendations on who goes, but I will say on offense we need to get a speedster at receiver. Burnham is a big play receiver, but more of a possession receiver. He will bring anything down, but I don’t know what his YAC is. I would love for us to find a guy who can catch a slant, make one guy miss and be gone. We need a burner.

[DanoT]

I can’t really make any recommendations on who goes, but I will say on offense we need to get a speedster at receiver. Burnham is a big play receiver, but more of a possession receiver. He will bring anything down, but I don’t know what his YAC is. I would love for us to find a guy who can catch a slant, make one guy miss and be gone. We need a burner.

Shaq Johnson is a legit speedster but 1st the Lions need a legit OC.

[KnightofCydonia]

Echoing a lot of sentiments here about who should go...

Coaches: Jarious Jackson needs to go. Stale, predictable plays and no creativity, with some real head-scratcher calls thrown in every now and then (Let's run on 2nd and 17!). Plays that take too long to develop that make the O-line's faults all the more obvious. etc.

Rich Stubler too. Sure the defense improved but I have to wonder how much of that was Claybrooks. Never been a fan of Stubler's style. Maybe Mike Benevides would be interested in coming back... he did talk to Hervey, and maybe I'm reading into it but him wearing an orange tie and pocket square on last night's broadcast could have been him sending a signal. Or maybe Claybrooks could dual as a HC/DC?

Offence: Duron Carter is a liability. I was honestly hoping for him to be a "new man" and use his time with the Lions to shake off bad habits and bad attitude, but he's cost too many drivers and taken too many unneccesary penalties with his mouth and temper. Sorry Duron, I'm no longer willing to give you another chance. Claybrooks shouldn't either, and bench him.

Danny O'Brien did nothing last night (nor in garbage time against the Argos last week) and I don't see anything from him in the future. Granted, he hasn't had many in-game reps but at this point in the season he should know the offence and be able to come in and do his job. And he doesn't have a total rookie excuse given he's been in the CFL for 5 seasons now.

Rashaun Simonise dropped too many passes. It's a shame, because I wanted him to do well.

Sukh Chungh isn't worth the money. If we do resign him, it better be at a significant pay-cut.

Defense: Odell Willis needs to accept his career is at an end. I appreciate his leadership but he takes too many offsides, is slower than we need, and doesn't get enough tackles. It's just not there for him anymore.

Keeps?

Coaches: Kelly Bates made good changes to the O-line and one must wonder how the Lions would be doing had he been with us from the start. I'd like to see him resign. And I would like to see Devone Claybrooks back as HC. I commend him for keeping team morale up at 1-10 when players easily could have given up, enough to later have some fighting chance at a playoff spot. With Bates from the start and a different OC, and having got a tough year under his belt, I'd like to see what he will do.

Offence: Bryan Burnham is an obvious one, and he has great character and work ethic to boot. We are too lucky to have him. Lemar Durant and Jevone Cottoy are two other receivers I'd like to see back. Cottoy especially has a lot of time to develop into a formidable football player - he's only 22. John White has been a lot of fun to watch in at running back.

Defense: TJ Lee and Gary Peters are two of our best backs. I thought that adding Shawn Lemon back in our D was an improvement. Jonathan Newsome also made big plays.

[SammyGreene]

I just don’t know where to start. This is a No. 7 team out of 9 and I have no clue how big the gap is to No. 6. If it’s the Eskimos then what would the outcome have been with Harris and Reilly playing the entire game Saturday. Same as the earlier two results?
With Reilly out it’s almost a certainty they go winless against the West this year which is nothing short of a disaster.
There were some nice additions that led the 4-game win streak against two inferior teams and the other minus their starting QB. But to say this team was ill-prepared to start the season would be an understatement. And that still resonates with me big time.
From 10-11 national starters in week one to the minimum 7 a couple of months later including three Americans on the offensive line. How does a team have essentially 4 months to put a roster together and think it has that many quality starting nationals to contend for the Grey Cup? Termansen. Really?
Then there was the lack of quality American talent brought into training camp in the first place. How can you not find any receivers?
So for me I guess it starts at the top. Is Hervey the right guy to make the decisions on Carter, O’Brien, Willis and others? I really don’t know but I’m pretty certain he will get another chance to figure it out.

[Sir Purrcival]

Yeah, you do have to question why in some positions we seemed so challenged. I think the receivers look a little more promising than initially. We still have Burnham and some of the other talent like Cottoy (sp?) looks to be a good find. My biggest pondering was about the Carter signing and really overall, he added very little. He may have been misused, it didn't seem like they threw his way very much but I didn't see him wide open a lot either. The other issues with him I will leave to others. My opinions on the matter are well known.

Hervey - willing to give him one more shot. Another season like this and his rope is run out. He had better impress in the off season with his acquisitions and firings or his job is toast.

Jackson - I don't think there is any question on Jackson. He should be gone.

Claybrooks, a tough one for me. I think he gets another season but he needs to change his style a bit. He isn't just a coach, he is "the head coach". He needs to give the appearance that he is in control. It isn't very assuring to see him standing on the sideline with a kind of blank look and hat askew. (Believe me I don't really care about the hat but impressions are important). With most head coaches, you know who they are with a look. With Claybrooks, you are hard pressed to tell if he is an assistant, a player on IR or some other staff member.

Stubler - How old is he anyway? The D looked better later in the season. I suppose he could stay another year if that had an impact on the cap.

Reilly - Needs to be more willing to come out and I have never really heard of a QB picking his backup. I apologize if I got that wrong but if I didn't, then who is running this team?

OBrien - stays if he earns it but no favourtism.

Willis - gone. Past it, pure and simple.


The rest I will leave to more informed minds.

[Gridiron Ernie]

I think there's a case to be made for giving folks in the organization another chance and allowing next season to decide their ultimate fate with us. I'm thinking here of at least a couple of the rookie coaching staff. e.g. Ryan Philips, Nick Lewis for example. I personally think those two are keepers. I wouldn’t want them to get away on us and thrive elsewhere.

That said, I'd hope the Special Teams coach is on an extremely short leash if he returns. I'd prefer he didn't return based on the season as a whole. But even he might have some promise, though it's certainly been hard to see.

I'm feeling not at all so generous however regards our Head of Player Personnel Cory Hunter. I've little respect for him to begin with (I'll let his suspension speak for itself) but even more so, I feel recruiting during his time with us has been one of our greatest failings as an organization. However, he seems to be Hervey's handpicked right-hand man, so I suspect I'll be seeing Mr. Hunter back with us. Here's hoping he finally begins to earn his paycheck, and has grown up.

Speaking of handpicked right-hand men, as many here have already said, Danny O'Brien has to show us something in our remaining couple games, otherwise there's no justification for Reilly getting his way in this matter. I note also that O'Brien will be turning 30 years of age next season. I think going younger is the way to go, and if young 23-year-old Kraemer can cut the mustard, I'm all for such a move. At this point he's an unknown, but I liked the pre-season glimpse we saw of him.

Of the other players, I have to say I did like the look of young Kevin Haynes at MLB as well. He was a busy boy last game with 9 tackles on defense, plus a couple more on ST, if I recall. But otherwise much of the current linebacking crew seems to range from being pretty mediocre to merely barely OK.

I've grown to quite seriously like our starting secondary as the season unfolded (though back-up Hakeem Johnson seems like he has much to learn based on limited play). I'd be happy to see the likes of Lee, Grymes, Dozier and Butler back, and Peters seems to have proved me dead wrong about him, as he's been really solid.

With all due respect, and I sincerely mean that, I think it's time for Odell Willis to retire, and punter Bartel as well.

I'm quite optimistic about our little crop of National receivers; Cottoy especially, along with Lemar Durant. And Shaq Johnson in particular could really shine I think with an OC other than Jarious. (Simonise seems not ready for the big lights.)

And so, about the aforementioned OC... I imagine he'll be back, but I do so wish for someone else to take that on. Someone more adaptable and flexible in his thinking and scheming--someone with creativity that helps deliver the "wow" factor and allows the various players to blossom and shine. Jarious hasn't ever really allowed for that to happen. He’s definitely stubborn, but I just hope he’s not stupid about it.

I'm assuming Hervey and Claybrooks will be back. I don't have a problem with that at this point. But the Leo's 2020 season will need to unfold significantly more attractively in every way for those two to stay on beyond next season. I wish them well. Claybrooks needs to adjust his manner a bit and be the boss. Hervey needs to show us some magic in wheeling and dealing. I think they both have it in them to pull it off. Here’s hoping.

All that said, who knows what the ramifications of a change in ownership may have on all or any of the above. It could be a really interesting off season. But so long as the esteemed Mr. Bryan Burnham is somewhere on the field of play, and Mr. Travis Lulay is somewhere in the organization, the Leo’s will remain near and dear, and I welcome necessary changes.

[The_Pauser]

carter is a complete cancer........... we never should have picked him up. no matter how many yards he picks up. and i'd say statistically he's been ok.

Care to explain how Carter is a cancer?

I would be looking to move on from him because I feel we need better production out of his position, but to call the man a cancer is just wrong.

[DanoT]

carter is a complete cancer........... we never should have picked him up. no matter how many yards he picks up. and i'd say statistically he's been ok.

Care to explain how Carter is a cancer?

I would be looking to move on from him because I feel we need better production out of his position, but to call the man a cancer is just wrong.

^^^ I agree and while Carter regularly gets under opponent's skin and they under his sometimes, I don't think it is a major issue and I don't think he has been a problem in the locker room either. Gets along fine with his team mates.

Carter's production has been ok but not great but about what you'd expect from a last place team that has one great receiver in Burham with the rest being just ok (but with potential to improve). I would bring him to 2020 TC along with a slew of guys looking to compete for his roster spot.

[Toppy Vann]

carter is a complete cancer........... we never should have picked him up. no matter how many yards he picks up. and i'd say statistically he's been ok.

Care to explain how Carter is a cancer?

I would be looking to move on from him because I feel we need better production out of his position, but to call the man a cancer is just wrong.

^^^ I agree and while Carter regularly gets under opponent's skin and they under his sometimes, I don't think it is a major issue and I don't think he has been a problem in the locker room either. Gets along fine with his team mates.

Carter's production has been ok but not great but about what you'd expect from a last place team that has one great receiver in Burham with the rest being just ok (but with potential to improve). I would bring him to 2020 TC along with a slew of guys looking to compete for his roster spot.

Carter is no cancer and what I find surprising is how fast the cameras focus on Duron Carter when any melee of any sort breaks out. Suitor the other night seemed to ignore the knee to his head after and all players *beeotch* on plays like that. Even Farhan suggests he's low hanging fruit.

I get it that Glen Suitor rants on and on against him and two things:

1. Suitor if he lives on the west coast - should take in a practice and see (as others do) him run the same routes in the same way as they practice over and over and over.

2. If he watched the Lions offensive structure, he'd see how teams defend against them and it's especially easy when they have to play a back up who has about 20 attempts per season over 6 years. Rush 7 knowing that the Lions won't take that into account and have the DBs sit on the routes knowing the predictable depth.

If someone wanted to make a player look bad this is the right offence to do it in.

Carter does the job they ask him to do as do others.

The GM (after admitting he gutted the team of leadership) should be having a talk with the Head Coach about what it will take for them all to survive this season and not all be fired and what must visibly change ASAP:

1. OFF structure - has to be altered especially now that the Starter looks gone for the year. He needs to make it clear that he'll not tolerate talent being given to the HC that's not used effectively.

2. Play calling - Jarius has to be forced to involve other OFF coaching talent in the game plans and play calls as he's stale and proving that a one band doesn't cut it in the 9 team CFL where teams know others' tendencies more readily than the NFL. Drew Tate looks like he has no input at practice unlike Nik Lewis but I genuinely believe Lewis isn't being asked or heard on game plays and play calls.

3. Putting players like Carter with talent in a position to be successful instead of some of the dumb sweeps and tosses that are so evident and covered that nothing comes of it. I give them credit for two bombs tossed by Carter as the DEF didn't expect those two passes.

4. More creativity and new plays is something we need to see.

...

The inability of a QB to step in was inevitable when Mike Reilly wanted O'Brien and #13 won't let anyone take a down other than him.

3rd guy - Kraemer - if in a band where they had a back up guitar player - gets only to play air guitar in practices. When the Lions run a play both Kraemer and O'Brien back of the play pretend they're doing it. O'Brien knows this offence pretty well. Not sure if Kraemer does.

Brandon Bridge coming in should give them some options to run - no doubt he's no saviour as he's been on no one's roster. Say what you like about Chris Jones - the drama generating HC - but he used to put in Bridge when the Riders couldn't protect Kevin Glenn and it helped.

[Toppy Vann]

[Toppy Vann]

A team cancer is not one who when scheduled visitors to Lions practices is one of the first and last to engage. One practice had really young footballers there and Carter went down the fence tossing a ball to every kid and were those kids and parents pumped. Carter works on ST drills even when it's not first team and does his job.

This happened last game. CFL needs personalities even though not all agree.

Am I happy with his production? No. But this OFF structure allows basically1 quick read and no more. The other night the OLine came back to earth when 7 rushed but did Jarius adjust or talk to his OL, RB and REC coach to adjust. Secondly I have never seen Carter spoken to about route running as what you see in practice and in games is layered routes where REC turn only when they're supposed - even when Reilly was getting sacked multiple times in the early games.

[cromartie]

From 10,000 feet...

All three coordinators. We need an OC who can design an offense around our personnel's abilities rather than his own from his playing days. ST is atrocious. I've always been a fan of Stubler but this is just a cover your eyes scheme that players are succeeding despite.

We're going to need a competent backup QB, as we don't appear to have one currently.

Chungh, Boyko and Willis. That'll free up some substantial money to make us players in free agency this offseason.

Our American scouting has been pretty bad since Wally's last year here, so some shuffling on that staff is overdue also.

I'm not even taking anyone who calls Carter a cancer seriously at this point. He's a bad fit on the scheme as it's currently constituted, but there are less expensive alternatives for the production we're getting from the position. He's remade himself into a decent locker room guy, however. If he stays? Cool. If he doesn't? Also cool, but he's done what was asked of him and contributes in ways not obvious to the couch OCs out there.

[Gridiron Ernie]

Yeah, like I was saying too, the recruiting needs to shape up in a big way. It's absolutely vital. It seems to me we're in critical condition in that regard. So much depends on new blood in the mix. And, as Cromartie notes, the American scouting has been the worst of the lot. We're wasting away on that front.