Braley Wants to Sell Lions

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KnowItAll
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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Dusty wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:09 am Moray Keith, local auto dealer, Waterboy and possible part of an ownership consortium for the BC Lions is at the Barrett - Jackson Auto Auction in Scottsdale Arizona this week with 42 cars up for auction. So far this week, his cars have sold for $899,700 US (including buyers commission of 5%?). There are 16 cars up for bids today and another 11 cars on Sunday in the "Moray Keith Collection"

Is this part of a plan to come up with a down payment for the Lions or merely time to pare down the cars in the garage? Enquiring minds want to know.....
if he has to sell cars to come up with the money to get the lions, then he should not be a candidate to buy them. IMO


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

KnowItAll wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:43 am
Dusty wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 8:09 am Moray Keith, local auto dealer, Waterboy and possible part of an ownership consortium for the BC Lions is at the Barrett - Jackson Auto Auction in Scottsdale Arizona this week with 42 cars up for auction. So far this week, his cars have sold for $899,700 US (including buyers commission of 5%?). There are 16 cars up for bids today and another 11 cars on Sunday in the "Moray Keith Collection"

Is this part of a plan to come up with a down payment for the Lions or merely time to pare down the cars in the garage? Enquiring minds want to know.....
Or it could be a case of a rich guy moving some plaything/hobby assets around from say collector cars to a football team. Most guys with deep pockets don't fill those pockets with cash.

if he has to sell cars to come up with the money to get the lions, then he should not be a candidate to buy them. IMO


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Interesting thoughts! I believe Moray Keith has plenty of wealth so not sure why the inventory sell-off. Now, I don't think he is in the "mega-wealthy" category, anywhere close to the Bob Youngs and David Braleys et al. But I think this all comes down to 2 ownership possibilities, fellas.

The comfortably wealthy local consortium who are fans of the Lions

OR

The mega-wealthy who are either local non-fans (e.g., Aquilini) or non-local, non-fans of whom there are rumoured to be 3-4 groups.

I think those are our choices. I might feel comfortable exploring the comfortable wealthy Lions fans first. They are a dying breed (literally) but they have a passion for the club and will (in theory anyway) put the football club's best interest above all else.

Any number of things can happen with the hobbyists IMO, most of them bad. Yes, a fresh set of eyes might be what the doctor ordered, but I can see patience and tolerance for financial losses being far less. These kind of guys though will always be around. Lions fans (e.g., Waterboys) not so much.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

I agree David. I don't read anything into Keith getting rid of some of his collector cars. 42? Is that all of them or just some of them? Car collectors tend to always be turning over their collection, especially if they are in the hobby of restoring cars. And of course for as many as you have you can only drive one at a time if you want to toss a temporary permit on one and take it out for a spin. He's more likely bored with what he has and maybe wanting to clean out some room in his garage to buy something different. Or he's at the point in time like many collectors of sports or Lions memorabilia get to where we come to realize that as nice as it is to have the stuff all it's doing is sitting in our dens collecting dust with nobody actually looking at it.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

I'd like to be positive and think he is making room for all the winning trophies the Lions will win in the next few years under new ownership.

Who ever buys the club needs deep pockets with real money at their beckoning call. We have had enough owners tied to real estate holdings and penny stocks. I'd be happy with a local non-fan. Someone who is committed to the community.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Any guesses as to what the CFL got for Montreal?

Hoping it was more than 10 million.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Murdoch wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:14 am Any guesses as to what the CFL got for Montreal?

Hoping it was more than 10 million.
The Alouettes have lost $50 million since the Wetenhall family owned the team, including $25 million for three years. In 2018 alone, losses would have reached $12.5 million due to a revenue decline of approximately $6 million and an increase in expenditures of more than $6 million. SOURCE: CBC Radio Canada reporter Michel Chabot.

For the health of the league, the CFL fan in me hopes they got $10M for the franchise. Stern called this a "challenge" and I highly doubt that Ambrosie negotiated nearly that much for it. The fact that he took so long to find owners with really deep pockets thanks to Dale Lastman, is telling.

The Lions fan in me hopes it was sold for $1. Or even $1M, just to give David Braley a reality check if he's hoping someone will stroke a pen to a $20+ million deal.


DH :cool:


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Really good answer David. Thank you. My heart goes out to the fans and hope that it gets worked out.

I agree that it was unlikely they cleared the debts left behind never mind putting anything on franchise value. Your point clearly made regarding the expectations of value for the Lions.

On the other hand, if one were to look at the economic impact to the city and province it surely must be in the tens of millions annually. I don't know of a more long standing or more well known west coast professional sports franchise. Ahead of the Canucks. Imagine the potential if it was run properly and regained past prominence in the community.

I don't think it happens with a private owner but if it is only a 6 million dollar investment to resurrect the previous governance prior to selling the club to Murray Pezim (apologies if I have the wrong guy) than I think it is a no brainer to go back to community ownership. All the articles of incorporation and so forth are already in place.

It's a different world from what it was in sports franchising. Sask had telethons and took grain for payment. Winnipeg was in just as bad but there wasn't the money there was in Vancouver for someone to step up and be a hero only to be gone in three years. Slow decline ever since.

I think Mr Braley would be on board with going back to that format and accept a reasonable amount versus other options. Surely the Lions are not in the financial mess the Wettenhall left behind in Montreal. Regardless I am thinking the ownership is affecting the whole team. Many of you have already said it needs to be resolved. Hopefully soon.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Murdoch wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 8:02 am Really good answer David. Thank you. My heart goes out to the fans and hope that it gets worked out.

I agree that it was unlikely they cleared the debts left behind never mind putting anything on franchise value. Your point clearly made regarding the expectations of value for the Lions.

On the other hand, if one were to look at the economic impact to the city and province it surely must be in the tens of millions annually. I don't know of a more long standing or more well known west coast professional sports franchise. Ahead of the Canucks. Imagine the potential if it was run properly and regained past prominence in the community.

I don't think it happens with a private owner but if it is only a 6 million dollar investment to resurrect the previous governance prior to selling the club to Murray Pezim (apologies if I have the wrong guy) than I think it is a no brainer to go back to community ownership. All the articles of incorporation and so forth are already in place.

It's a different world from what it was in sports franchising. Sask had telethons and took grain for payment. Winnipeg was in just as bad but there wasn't the money there was in Vancouver for someone to step up and be a hero only to be gone in three years. Slow decline ever since.

I think Mr Braley would be on board with going back to that format and accept a reasonable amount versus other options. Surely the Lions are not in the financial mess the Wettenhall left behind in Montreal. Regardless I am thinking the ownership is affecting the whole team. Many of you have already said it needs to be resolved. Hopefully soon.
Community ownership only has a chance to work if the community is actively behind the team which is not the case in Vancouver. Most fans would rather just watch on TV.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

DanoT wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:01 am Community ownership only has a chance to work if the community is actively behind the team which is not the case in Vancouver. Most fans would rather just watch on TV.
Not meant in any kind of condescending way but it seems to be working amazing well in Edmonton, Sask, and Winnipeg.

If every home game generated $2 million (which I hope is a low number) there should be enough to make sense of the effort. Too many involved and there is soon nothing left to share. Who is getting that money?

Fans watching from home do have that right. The league wants all the television revenues and TSN wants viewers. Teams can find a balance and make tickets more reasonable but until they do they can't expect people to not consider the alternative.

I went to many games on an $18 ticket and $6 beers. Fun night out for under $50. Never would have done it if it was costing $200 / game for two. Ordering a pizza and a six pack can be fun as well.

Sorry for the ramble. Really do hope for the best.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

David wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:21 pm
The Lions fan in me hopes it was sold for $1. Or even $1M, just to give David Braley a reality check if he's hoping someone will stroke a pen to a $20+ million deal.


DH :cool:
That would be disastrous for the CFL. Basically says franchises are worthless. If I was Ottawa I'd be demanding at least half my expansion fee back and if I was the Schooners I'd laugh in Ambrosie's face if he asked for more than $1M for an expansion fee.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Murdoch wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:18 am
DanoT wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 9:01 am Community ownership only has a chance to work if the community is actively behind the team which is not the case in Vancouver. Most fans would rather just watch on TV.
Not meant in any kind of condescending way but it seems to be working amazing well in Edmonton, Sask, and Winnipeg.

If every home game generated $2 million (which I hope is a low number) there should be enough to make sense of the effort. Too many involved and there is soon nothing left to share. Who is getting that money?

Fans watching from home do have that right. The league wants all the television revenues and TSN wants viewers. Teams can find a balance and make tickets more reasonable but until they do they can't expect people to not consider the alternative.

I went to many games on an $18 ticket and $6 beers. Fun night out for under $50. Never would have done it if it was costing $200 / game for two. Ordering a pizza and a six pack can be fun as well.

Sorry for the ramble. Really do hope for the best.
It works well in those locations in part because they were long established as community owned teams going back to when almost all teams were community owned. Winnipeg was close to selling to private interests not all that long ago. It still takes and average of well over $20M to operate a team. I don't think any of them could start out as community owned in 2020.

Your estimate of $2M/home game revenue is actually very high especially considering the Lions don't get revenues from concessions or parking.
Over the 2016 & 2017 seasons Edmonton's average total revenue was $24M. Included in that was (averages):
Gate receipts: $9.3M
Sponsorships: $5.1M
CFL Payments: $4.2M
Concessions & Game Day: $4.1M (Game Day expenses averaged $2.4M)
Merchandise: $1.2M (expenses were $975K so roughly $225K in profit)
Post Season Games, Interest & Other: $150K

Operating expenses were $21.35M in 2016 and $24.0M in 2017.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

Hambone wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:36 pm
David wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:21 pm
The Lions fan in me hopes it was sold for $1. Or even $1M, just to give David Braley a reality check if he's hoping someone will stroke a pen to a $20+ million deal.


DH :cool:
That would be disastrous for the CFL. Basically says franchises are worthless. If I was Ottawa I'd be demanding at least half my expansion fee back and if I was the Schooners I'd laugh in Ambrosie's face if he asked for more than $1M for an expansion fee.
Please read my whole post.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

David wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 4:40 pm
Hambone wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2020 2:36 pm
David wrote: Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:21 pm
The Lions fan in me hopes it was sold for $1. Or even $1M, just to give David Braley a reality check if he's hoping someone will stroke a pen to a $20+ million deal.


DH :cool:
That would be disastrous for the CFL. Basically says franchises are worthless. If I was Ottawa I'd be demanding at least half my expansion fee back and if I was the Schooners I'd laugh in Ambrosie's face if he asked for more than $1M for an expansion fee.
Please read my whole post.

DH :cool:
I did. I was only taking issue with the idea of Montreal selling for $1M or less in a "serves Braley right" context. While I'm sure coming from you it was said facetiously or tongue-in-cheek I'm just s sure there are others who actually think that way. So I guess I was responding to anybody who honestly thinks that way.

For the record when Braley sold the Ticats he sold them to a community ownership model. They would struggle under that model for several years with the league threatening to revoke the franchise a couple of times until Bob Young finally taking over.


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Re: Braley Wants to Sell Lions

I know it is an apples to oranges comparison but the Seahawks have an estimated value of $2.8 billion. As a minimum, the cost of a NFL franchise is $1B. I remember when the CFL salaries were higher than the "old" NFL.

We need a MBA wiz kid (or gal) to come up with a business model where CFL football is in everyone's mind and the talk of the town.

And yes, I am a season's ticket holder.


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