Post Game Thread - Lions & Bombers

[JohnnyMusso]

If no coaches are fired then it is going to continue to get worse. Someone mentioned before the game Lions have not hit rock bottom yet. That may be true. If no major changes happen and they do nothing to fix the coaching issues a 1 and 17 record is possible. That has not happened since 1954. It seems inconceivable it could happen, but it is possible.

Farhan and Burns say each game Lions are making 8 to 10 bad plays that cost them and those are the ones they can count off the top of their head. Time Hervey now looks at the coaching staff instead of changing a few players each game.

[The_Pauser]

Fans dumping on Duron Carter who brought fans off the sofa with a terrific 56 yard pass to Lamar Durant is nuts. That could have been a game changer but for the kick off return.

Three Comments:


1. This season comes down to GM Ed Hervey decisions to put too much money into the QB leading to:

* deciding not to re-sign Sol E who could provide both skill and leadership to the entire DEF as he's doing for the Riders now.

* dumping $160,000 Special Team players who play 4 or 5 plays leading to the worst kick cover team I've ever seen in BC.

2. There needs to be some realignment in the coaching responsibilities including:
> more evidence that play calling in the game has input from other Jarius Jackson who again got in a rut tonight.

> maybe not firing Altilio but give that role to someone else.

3. The HC has yet to establish a winning culture in this team. He has to be clearer what it is.

4. There are some good coaches here including Nik Lewis who's a teacher and who can do more for this team including Play CALLING or leading STs

I agree with some points, and disagree with others.

For starters: Duron Carter isn’t the problem with the team. We’re not getting the expected production from him, and whether that’s his fault or not can be put up to debate, but if he is a problem he is far down on the list of things wrong with the team. I’d still look to upgrade, and if Duke Williams becomes available I wouldn’t hesitate, but I also think Carter hasn’t been used effectively in our offense.

On the flip side, I disagree with your claim that signing Mike Reilly was a problem due to his salary. I’ll use Calgary as my example. They are paying Bo Levi Mitchell basically the same salary. He hasn’t even really played this season, and the Stamps are right there in it for top spot. This is also a team that lost key players on offense, and their top players on defense. Mike Reilly is not the problem.

The rest of your post I agree with. I might even take some points a step further. The coaching staff is too inexperienced, and I’m not sure Claybrooks himself has a firm grasp of the room. People on here loved to crap on Wally over the years, but I think we’re seeing right now the difference between a great coach who perhaps was starting to slip, vs complete bad coaching like what we have right now. I wouldn’t write off Claybrooks completely, but the lack of experience on the coaching staff is showing and every game this team gets destroyed in the second half after not making adjustments while other teams adjust.

I think a serious overhaul with our scouts needs to be done. Unacceptable to have really nothing to show for two years of recruiting. Misses at the draft are also inexcusable at the rate that we have seen.

This team has seen a lot of turnover over the past two years, and I’m not sure another massive overhaul is going to improve things to where we want them to be. We need to identify a core group from what we have right now. And yes, any NFL cuts we bring in need to play, especially if they are part of our new core group.

Guys who I think should stick around:
Mike Reilly
Grant Kraemer (need develop him)
John White
Wayne Moore
Bryan Burnham
Lemar Durant
Jevon Cottoy
Ryan Lankford
David Mackie
Joel Figueroa
Peter Godber (if he can get healthy)

That’s basically it on offense. I hate having to completely rebuild the O-line again. But the guys we have aren’t getting the job done. I don’t know that they can get there, and there is a lot of money being spent on Hunter Steward, Sukh Chungh, Brett and David Foucault for them to be playing this poorly.


On defense, Grymes and TJ Lee are fine in the secondary. I’m also happy enough with Dozier. Shawn Lemon might have to stay just out of necessity, and I would keep Junior Luke around. Herdman probably stays, and Chris Edwards seems to have done a decent enough job. We could use an upgrade at the WILL, and a completely revamped defensive line would be ideal.

[RoDun]

There is also a severe lack of young talent, Canadian or American. This goes back to the Buono days

[Lion Fan For Life]

The ST Coordinator is simply in waaaaaay over his head. He needs to go now.

LOL.....The ST co ordinator is way over his head? LOL
Buddy......This Guy who is impersonating a Head Coach, is wayyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyy wayyyyyy Over HIS HEAD!!!!!
He should have FIRED someone after game Two!
This all rests on the head of this Supposed Head Coach!
Throwing a Flag with just 1:56 left in another embarrassing LOSS.....just goes to Show everyone how this Guy......has to GO!!!!!!
He is a frigging Embarrassment to this Team....to the City....to the League and to every Professional Coach "HEAD COACH" out there!
This guy is a JOKE!

[Lion Fan For Life]

game after game claybrooks looks bewildered, talking to no one... hes out of his league, comparisons to oshea are not the same, ... his rhetoric is as cliche as bounos in his last days

WOW.....Hard to believe that others are just NOW....starting to see, what I saw way back in Training Camp.
Claybrooks is more concerned about being one of the Groovy Brothers, instead of being the Dad and the MAN of the house!
Claybrooks is an embarrassment, and the writer above, is Bang On with his observation of this guy.....each and every game.....standing there with his Mouth Open and just looking with a Dumb LOOK on his Face....while wondering if he should throw a Flag again....at the end of a Train Wreck.
Ever notice how Coach Snoop Dog......Loves to throw a Flag.....in a meaningless game....with only a few minutes to go?
Like "WHY"?
He is just Embarrassing!!!
He is out of his League.
He should go and Coach High School Ball......that is where his calling is at!
Fans are not going to PAY.....to watch this guy.....Embarrass himself and the League.
He's got to Go!
Its a BUSH LEAGUE ...with Bush League Coaching!

[Lion Guy]

The ST Coordinator is simply in waaaaaay over his head. He needs to go now.

LOL.....The ST co ordinator is way over his head? LOL
Buddy......This Guy who is impersonating a Head Coach, is wayyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyy wayyyyyy Over HIS HEAD!!!!!
He should have FIRED someone after game Two!
This all rests on the head of this Supposed Head Coach!
Throwing a Flag with just 1:56 left in another embarrassing LOSS.....just goes to Show everyone how this Guy......has to GO!!!!!!
He is a frigging Embarrassment to this Team....to the City....to the League and to every Professional Coach "HEAD COACH" out there!
This guy is a JOKE!

You're not wrong.

[cromartie]

if Hervey decides to keep Claybrooks he will insist to him now they will do things his way and will get rid of his entire staff and hire more experienced coaches. Whether that process begins earlier who knows.

He also believes once the NFL cuts begin there will be an airlift of players in and an airlift of players out.

Burns and Farhan agreed Hervey made the wrong choice keeping Willis over Lemon for Willis is close to Hervey. Willis had just 1 tackle tonight.

Burns believes scheme is a problem with the defence not just lack of talent.

Both agree Lions half time adjustments are not being made or if they are not working for getting killed in the 4th quarter every game.

Lions off now for 9 days will be interesting what may happen now.

NFL playing 2nd exhibition games now and after them cuts may start to happen.

Broom them all. This isn't hard. You can't continue to let a front office that can't recruit and scout for talent continue to bring in players who can't play. You can't continue to let a coaching staff that can't coach continue to coach the same way and expect things to improve.

With involved ownership, everyone here is a dead man walking, and most of them should be. The question is, where is it going to come from?

[JohnnyMusso]

if Hervey decides to keep Claybrooks he will insist to him now they will do things his way and will get rid of his entire staff and hire more experienced coaches. Whether that process begins earlier who knows.

He also believes once the NFL cuts begin there will be an airlift of players in and an airlift of players out.

Burns and Farhan agreed Hervey made the wrong choice keeping Willis over Lemon for Willis is close to Hervey. Willis had just 1 tackle tonight.

Burns believes scheme is a problem with the defence not just lack of talent.

Both agree Lions half time adjustments are not being made or if they are not working for getting killed in the 4th quarter every game.

Lions off now for 9 days will be interesting what may happen now.

NFL playing 2nd exhibition games now and after them cuts may start to happen.

Broom them all. This isn't hard. You can't continue to let a front office that can't recruit and scout for talent continue to bring in players who can't play. You can't continue to let a coaching staff that can't coach continue to coach the same way and expect things to improve.

With involved ownership, everyone here is a dead man walking, and most of them should be. The question is, where is it going to come from?

I agree if Lions do get sold, the new owners will clean house for sure. But likely David Braley will keep the team till he dies. The question then what does he decide to do. I think he probably will renew Ed Hervey and let him decide what to do and most likely he will keep Claybrooks and fire most of the assistant coaches. Claybrooks only is fired if Lions finish 1 and 17 or 2 and 16 and Hervey decides to make a change there if Braley agrees to pay him off and eat the contract.

It is time now though to start making changes then the token 2 or 3 changes per game. There is still 9 games to go. To let things continue to go the way it is going would be a huge mistake. They need to fix some of the problems now and that starts with special teams. This coach is the worst special teams coach we have ever had and his decisions are not up to standard of a pro level. He must be fired or things will continue game after game.

I expect a poor turnout for the Tiger Cats game, for normally Hamilton is a poor draw and Lions are 1 and 8 and out of it now.

[Evil Empire]

If you want an impartial view. I can’t believe what Ed Hervey has done to your team. As far as I can tell his agenda has been to screw Edmonton from day one. And it has bitten him in the ass at every turn. He has made bad decisions hand over fist trying to get even. And look at the results. He has a great football mind but he lost his mind when he got fired in Edmonton.

He way overpaid to get Reilly from Edmonton. And then raided the cupboards trying to get as many Eskimos as possible. The guy didn’t even have the sense to learn from the Chris Jones debacle even though he was right in the middle of it. Look how Jones did in SK. A total fail. He thought he could just move the entire coaching staff and as many players from Edm to SK. He bombed in SK. The man is clearly incapable of treating the GM job in Vancouver in any professional manner. There are some here in Edmonton that are in love with the man. They look like fools now. When he was professional and detached, he did a great job. But the man has lost his mind.

I honestly do not want to pile on, because this is going worse for you than I could have ever imagined. You have one win and that’s only because that bush league Toronto franchise doesn’t have a regulation CFL sized field.

I think Hervey is your biggest problem. He was fired from Edmonton for a reason, and considering he was successful in Edmonton. You have to wonder why. And I think it’s all pretty clear now. I don’t see how any sane person can defend him. He has an ego the size of BC Place.

Mike Reilly’s first year in Edmonton was one thing. But there is no way a team with him in 2019 as the starting QB for every game should be 1-8 (should actually be 0-9). Ed Hervey has used a personal vendetta against a guy no longer even with the Eskimos to get even with the Eskimos. And he has crippled your team. I don’t know who should replace him. But in my honest opinion he is the obvious problem.

Unless Hervey truly believes... Once An Eskimo, Always An Eskimo. His moves haven’t hurt the Eskimos in the slightest. But he has sunk the Lions.

Just my honest opinion.

[Reggiemac]

I think Reilly is part of the problem, hes not a team player its all about him. Why isnt Mraemer dressing when he could develop? Because it night hurt Reillys fragile ego. Thats why Hervey signed his buddy from the esks O brien has no chance of ever pushing and thats why Reilly likes him. It decreases Kramers chances of supplanting Reillys position saving the job for Reilly meanwhile we dont dress a Q B that can step in and compete,my two cents

[Toppy Vann]

Pauser:
"Guys who I think should stick around:
....Mike Reilly
Grant Kraemer (need develop him) ...."

No dispute with signing Mike Reilly but he comes with the promise that there will NO back-up development unless he can't play. BC decided this year not to dress the 3 QBs and there is something to be said to have that 3rd game there in uniform on game day and give him short yardage snaps if he's capable there.

My concern with how that game ended was our QB just doing the same thing over and over while the Bombers blitzed from the right and John White or bring on the FB weren't used to stop that. Mike didn't see or didn't adjust to their D Linemen standing up to cut off his short routes. It was as if Reilly and Jackson were out to make the O-Line look bad by not moving the pocket nor doing anything to counter what the DEF were doing.

TV coverage isn't the best to view the field on Lions pass schemes but practice is. There is one failed pass to Burnham in the 4thQ and Carter is just ahead of him but is decoying by design and he hasn't turned back. The JJ schemes at time are like that - don't turn early but the QB has no time.

Evil Empire:

Makes the point that Ed Hervey has that take it all from the Esks mentality to screw them - he certainly has tried that I suspect as that's his character. For a year or so after being promoted to replace Eric Tillman he did not nothing more than keep referencing back to him versus painting a vision moving forward.

Coaching Comments:

To suggest GC cup winning DC coach Claybrooks isn't a HS coach is ridiculous.

These are not all bad coaches but are they being enough input - especially on OFF.

Chiu looks bad as the play calling in the 4th Q had the Statue of Liberty back there trying to toss passes with the blitz coming and DLmen standing off to cut off the short throws not recognizing that more of the same won't get you a different or a better result.

[JohnnyMusso]

If you want an impartial view. I can’t believe what Ed Hervey has done to your team. As far as I can tell his agenda has been to screw Edmonton from day one. And it has bitten him in the ass at every turn. He has made bad decisions hand over fist trying to get even. And look at the results. He has a great football mind but he lost his mind when he got fired in Edmonton.

He way overpaid to get Reilly from Edmonton. And then raided the cupboards trying to get as many Eskimos as possible. The guy didn’t even have the sense to learn from the Chris Jones debacle even though he was right in the middle of it. Look how Jones did in SK. A total fail. He thought he could just move the entire coaching staff and as many players from Edm to SK. He bombed in SK. The man is clearly incapable of treating the GM job in Vancouver in any professional manner. There are some here in Edmonton that are in love with the man. They look like fools now. When he was professional and detached, he did a great job. But the man has lost his mind.

I honestly do not want to pile on, because this is going worse for you than I could have ever imagined. You have one win and that’s only because that bush league Toronto franchise doesn’t have a regulation CFL sized field.

I think Hervey is your biggest problem. He was fired from Edmonton for a reason, and considering he was successful in Edmonton. You have to wonder why. And I think it’s all pretty clear now. I don’t see how any sane person can defend him. He has an ego the size of BC Place.

Mike Reilly’s first year in Edmonton was one thing. But there is no way a team with him in 2019 as the starting QB for every game should be 1-8 (should actually be 0-9). Ed Hervey has used a personal vendetta against a guy no longer even with the Eskimos to get even with the Eskimos. And he has crippled your team. I don’t know who should replace him. But in my honest opinion he is the obvious problem.

Unless Hervey truly believes... Once An Eskimo, Always An Eskimo. His moves haven’t hurt the Eskimos in the slightest. But he has sunk the Lions.

Just my honest opinion.

Evil Empire, first I apologize to you for thinking you were RNG which clearly you are not. Your post is well thought out and intelligent. I agree with you. Ed Hervey is a problem and he was obsessed with getting even with the Eskimos and so was his right hand man Torey Hunter, who should have been fired for trolling the Eskimos forum. Many of his decisions bringing in ex Eskimos and getting rid of Wally's guys have burned this team and I agree it is only going to get worse. I think 1 and 17 is not inconceivable.

But the main problem with this team now is the coaching staff. They are inexperienced and poor and some of them not up to a pro level. Unless Hervey addresses this issue now by firing the special teams coach, they will continue floundering like a wounded fish and the team will end up on life support at the end of the season.

A replacement for Hervey would be the guy everyone thought Buono was grooming Neil McEvoy or Geroy Simon. Ed Hervey to me does not deserve a contract extension and should be fired at the end of the season. The problem is David Braley. There is a story that his mind is clear only some of the time. Does he really know what is going on and is he capable of making a sound football decision or will he take the easy route and just resign Hervey.

[cromartie]

If you want an impartial view. I can’t believe what Ed Hervey has done to your team. As far as I can tell his agenda has been to screw Edmonton from day one. And it has bitten him in the ass at every turn. He has made bad decisions hand over fist trying to get even. And look at the results. He has a great football mind but he lost his mind when he got fired in Edmonton.

He way overpaid to get Reilly from Edmonton. And then raided the cupboards trying to get as many Eskimos as possible. The guy didn’t even have the sense to learn from the Chris Jones debacle even though he was right in the middle of it. Look how Jones did in SK. A total fail. He thought he could just move the entire coaching staff and as many players from Edm to SK. He bombed in SK. The man is clearly incapable of treating the GM job in Vancouver in any professional manner. There are some here in Edmonton that are in love with the man. They look like fools now. When he was professional and detached, he did a great job. But the man has lost his mind.

I think Hanlon's Razor needs to apply here.

Guys like Hervey, Jones and Matt Millen frequently understand that change is required, work off of an extremely limited, short term body of knowledge about the players in the league and are really only capable of working within that limited framework.

They might also be reliant entirely upon others for knowledge outside of that framework for the ancillary parts of player scouting, recruitment and development.

It's one thing to see that change is necessary and Hervey, correctly, understood that.

His frame of reference appears to be limited to players in and around the Eskimos atmosphere when he was there.

He appears to entirely rely upon Claybrooks to formulate a coaching staff.
He appears to entirely rely upon Torey Hunter and Geroy for scouting and drafting purposes.

He is being failed, by and large, by all three.

No need to rely upon conspiracy when a dubious primary body of knowledge and downstream poor performance will do as an explainer.

From a PR perspective, at the rate this season is going, I simply do not see how anyone survives this debacle.

[The_Pauser]

Pauser:
"Guys who I think should stick around:
....Mike Reilly
Grant Kraemer (need develop him) ...."

No dispute with signing Mike Reilly but he comes with the promise that there will NO back-up development unless he can't play. BC decided this year not to dress the 3 QBs and there is something to be said to have that 3rd game there in uniform on game day and give him short yardage snaps if he's capable there.

My concern with how that game ended was our QB just doing the same thing over and over while the Bombers blitzed from the right and John White or bring on the FB weren't used to stop that. Mike didn't see or didn't adjust to their D Linemen standing up to cut off his short routes. It was as if Reilly and Jackson were out to make the O-Line look bad by not moving the pocket nor doing anything to counter what the DEF were doing.

TV coverage isn't the best to view the field on Lions pass schemes but practice is. There is one failed pass to Burnham in the 4thQ and Carter is just ahead of him but is decoying by design and he hasn't turned back. The JJ schemes at time are like that - don't turn early but the QB has no time.

You're not wrong about Reilly taking up all the reps, but to me that's a coaching issue. Reilly wants all the reps, great. I want a QB who wants all the reps and doesn't ever want to come out of the game. But the coach has to act like a coach and tell his QB this is how it's going to be. Especially since Reilly isn't in his 20's. He's getting older and getting him some rest, whether it be during practice or late in games we're being blown out in (or blowing the other team out....not likely to come up this season), sit him down.

I don't think there's a problem with how much Reilly is making. As I pointed out, Calgary is paying Bo Levi the same thing, and he's not even playing, and they're still winning. To me that's proof that you can be successful with paying a good QB big money. That just means the rest of the team has to be good, and you have to be able to find your own players on cheap contracts who can step in the lineup and contribute. Calgary has done this for a long time under Hufnagel. We did this for the most part under Buono.

I think next season it will be mandatory for every team to only dress 2 QB's, so while we adopted it early, that's something that every team will be faced with. I think that's a stupid rule though, and much prefer the traditional 3 QB set (especially with the rate that QB's are getting injured this year, I don't see the sense in restricting teams to just 2). This also doesn't help develop new QB's. O'Brien doesn't have a future here as our Reilly successor. His role is just to hold the clip board, provide sideline support, and as a FG holder (which, to his credit, he's worked hard at).

Can't disagree with anything you say here though. Especially one particular sack sticks out in my mind, and it was the one where Hecht had a clear path to Reilly, untouched, and absolutely smoked him. That one I put on Reilly and on JJ because Reilly needed to spot that Hecht was going to be coming in on the Blitz and adjust, and JJ has to ensure he has routes designed to counteract these blitzes.

Did we even throw a screen pass all game?

[The_Pauser]

The ST Coordinator is simply in waaaaaay over his head. He needs to go now.

LOL.....The ST co ordinator is way over his head? LOL
Buddy......This Guy who is impersonating a Head Coach, is wayyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyyy wayyyyyy Over HIS HEAD!!!!!
He should have FIRED someone after game Two!
This all rests on the head of this Supposed Head Coach!
Throwing a Flag with just 1:56 left in another embarrassing LOSS.....just goes to Show everyone how this Guy......has to GO!!!!!!
He is a frigging Embarrassment to this Team....to the City....to the League and to every Professional Coach "HEAD COACH" out there!
This guy is a JOKE!

Claybrooks isn't the only coach to ever throw a challenge flag hoping for a call to be overturned late in the game. Maybe you're new to watching football, Ray Nettles Ghost.