Lions at Ticats Aug. 10, 2019 post-game thread

[David]

Hamilton took 14 penalties. The Lions took 6. Blaming a call or non-call for the loss is ridiculous.

I agree. We still may have found a way to piss this game away even if we did get that holding call. We melted down at the worst possible time (again). This needs to be examined more closely than a non-call (which was brutal). It is the big, shiny object to distract us.

Maxlion is right. There is something 'off' with the chemistry of this team. Something is not quite right. The coaches have not fostered a winning culture so everyone appears to be expecting a loss, even when we're leading.


DH

[B.C.FAN]

CFL analytics are becoming easier to find this year. Nik Kowalski of @LastWordOnCFL and breaks down how DBs were targeted last night.

[pennw]

Hamilton took 14 penalties. The Lions took 6. Blaming a call or non-call for the loss is ridiculous.

I agree. We still may have found a way to piss this game away even if we did get that holding call. We melted down at the worst possible time (again). This needs to be examined more closely than a non-call (which was brutal). It is the big, shiny object to distract us.

Maxlion is right. There is something 'off' with the chemistry of this team. Something is not quite right. The coaches have not fostered a winning culture so everyone appears to be expecting a loss, even when we're leading.


DH

We certainly could have blown the game even had we got the call . And I know we got a lot of calls go our way earlier in the game , but they were all legitimate infractions . But had that call been made (and that is one that is made almost100% of the time before this) , Hamilton would have got the ball at about their own 20 yard line instead of our 20 needing a TD to win with little time left , so a hugely impactful non-call . But I know, with Stubler calling the D I would have to faith in our D closing even if they started at their own 1 yard line with little time on the clock . Stubler has a history of blowing big leads late in games .
And I agree with Johnny Musso , that Stubler won't get fired because he is Claybrooks buddy . Thus Stubler may end up be the Albatross around Claybrooks neck , maybe Ed Hervy's too . Unless Hervy over rules Claybrooks and cans him . But that is the only way I see this being turned around.
We had the bye week and came back , with Jarious showing he could adjust . He is a young OC and may still end up being a good one . That can't be said about Stubler who dug in his heals and stubbornly gave us the same garbage system that is bringing the whole team down . He can't/won't adjust . The players have to see that too and how demoralizing it must be , knowing that their D is guaranteed to let them down no matter how good the rest of team is .
Comparing this to Mike'O Shea things could be turned around over time but it can't happen as long as they cling to Stubler . O'Shea took 3 seasons to turn the Bombers around , they were patient and got rewarded for that patience . He brought in Paul LaPolice , and that was their turning point . Sometimes a change like that , one coordinator can turn a team around . That may be what is required in BC and Stubler is the one who needs to go .

[B.C.FAN]

Comparing this to Mike'O Shea things could be turned around over time but it can't happen as long as they cling to Stubler . O'Shea took 3 seasons to turn the Bombers around , they were patient and got rewarded for that patience . He brought in Paul LaPolice , and that was their turning point . Sometimes a change like that , one coordinator can turn a team around . That may be what is required in BC and Stubler is the one who needs to go .

I agree the Bombers were patient with Mike O'Shea and it paid off. They were 7-11 and 5-13 in his first two seasons, and still had a habit of blowing leads or making questionable decisions that cost them games in the following two years. O'Shea has grown into one of the game's top coaches, thanks in good part to Paul LaPolice and Andrew Harris.

[JohnnyMusso]

The Manitoba market is a lot more patient than this one and fans more loyal and come out to games.

If Lions do end up with the worst case scenario, then I cannot see both Hervey and Claybrooks staying. Whatever fans are left will demand change and one or both will be fired. It is possible both Ed Hervey and Jim Benning both will lose their jobs at the end of their respective seasons. Both have expiring contracts and both owners likely will not have the patience to give them another chance.

I cannot even remember anything about the 1992 season. But that year, they cleaned house and it is likely same thing will happen when Lions season mercifully comes to an end.

[B.C.FAN]

Hervey's contract is up this year. He can be let go without financial consequences. Claybrooks has a three-year contract, which is likely in the $300,000 range (my guess only). I know the Lions have not filled their allotted quota of football ops staff but I can't see them being able to pay out Claybrooks and hire a new coach at a comparable salary.

[JohnnyMusso]

Thanks BC Fan for the update.

Unlike the Canucks owners who have no problem eating salary, it is unlikely David Braley can afford to do the same so Claybrooks likely will be here at least another year. But Ed Hervey is another story. He would want at least a 2 year extension. Will Braley give it to him if Lions finish 3 and 15 or worse.? Would another GM want to come in and accept Claybrooks for another 1 or 2 years?

What about the assistants? Other than Jackson, who is on an expiring contract? Do they all have 2 or 3 year contracts? Could we see all of them back even if Lions finish 1 and 17.

It seems to me the only person we know for sure they could fire and not have any financial considerations is Ed Hervey? Will Braley ask Wally Buono to come back for another year as GM to fix the mess? Would he even want to?

Would Ray Nettles ghost post rants after every game for the next 3 years if Claybrooks stays for the length of his contract?

This not only is the toughest year for the Lions and their fans in 25 years, the off season could prove to be just as tough with very hard decisions to be made by David Braley or Rick LeLacheur.

[Toppy Vann]

Claybrooks is coaching in practice the DEF with Stubler. No amount of coaching is going to change the talent level and they didn't want Sol E so now there's no DEF leader.

At Thursday's practice on the sideline was Rutley tossing balls up in the air (punts) to 33 - the FB. I noticed immediately that he's quite raw and doesn't know not to let it bounce off his pads. Nik Lewis came right over and showed him how to do it right. I was surprised how a player can get to the pros not knowing you catch with your hands and guide it in. No wonder 33 get caught as these guys are raw.

[David]

Claybrooks is coaching in practice the DEF with Stubler. No amount of coaching is going to change the talent level and they didn't want Sol E so now there's no DEF leader.

That would be TJ Lee.

If we move Toomer to LB we don't need Solly. Love the guy; one of my favs but that's a diminishing asset. Neither he nor Manny are exactly tearing up the league. For that matter, neither is Biggie. He has looked very ordinary this year, but I digress...

We need at minimum one disruptive rush end, preferably two but one would make a big difference. Ditch Stubler's "system" too. A Charleston Hughes type. Every club seems to have one but us.


DH

[Lui05]

My take on this game is it went pretty much how I thought it would go. Lions put on a much better show (i.e. they showed up) and their deficiencies on defense cost them the game. It was the Calgary game part 2.
Had they managed to hold on for a victory, I don't think there was anything about this game that was going to change my opinion of this team overall.
They have two glaring weaknesses. O-line and D-line. I'm not saying our secondary is great, but if the D-line ever got anything resembling pressure on the quarterback, the secondary would have greater opportunity to make plays.
On offense, I think that was our best game of the season. Good balanced attack and time of possession. If we keep playing like that, I do think we'll eke out another win somewhere along the line this season. The o-line was better this week (especially on the run), but ultimately failed the team and IMO, caused the loss by snapping the ball over Reilly's head which caused us to have to punt when we probably could have kept the possession going and salted the game away by killing more time and maybe getting more points AND injuring our quarterback on the play which limited our ability to come back.
I'll end on this note. I really liked the hustle on that last Hamilton punt. For a brief moment, I actually thought that guy was going to score. It didn't happen, but it was a great effort.
One last thing. After the game, you could see players mingling and Burnham seemed perfectly happy and laughing. I'm not sure how you comparmentalize things that quickly. I suppose that's impressive. He had a great game and I loved that two foot tip toe catch he made.
Just my ramblings on the game. I watched the whole thing. That's an improvement.

[David]

They have two glaring weaknesses. O-line and D-line.... I'm not saying our The o-line was better this week (especially on the run), but ultimately failed the team and IMO, caused the loss by snapping the ball over Reilly's head which caused us to have to punt when we probably could have kept the possession going and salted the game away by killing more time and maybe getting more points AND injuring our quarterback on the play which limited our ability to come back.

Not happy that an errant snap led to our QB getting hurt but I'll have to disagree. This is the most confidence I have in the O-line all season (low bar, I know). Four sacks is deceiving. One was Reilly diving on the ball. At least one other looked like a communication issue. Understandable.

I saw plenty of plays when Reilly had 3-4 steamboats against a pretty good pass rush. With more repetition, this unit will be good. Bad snaps will get ironed out. Just not thrilled that it's 3 Internationals though.


DH

[Toppy Vann]

The Lions need to add wrinkles to all aspects of their game.

Just look at how excited the Ticats bench was with all those gimmicky plays used.

BC needs to start building its own repertoire.

I'm not happy with the kickers when I see practices. Naturally you don't want to kick your leg off but why is not place kicker practicing short kick offs with the punter and others.

[Ballistic Bob]

Anyone else notice Reillys twisted Theismaneque ankle injury on the fumbled snap late in the game. He truly is a warrior. BB