Eskimos 33 - Lions 6 -- Post-Game Comments

The Place for BC Lion Discussion. A forum for Lions fans to talk and chat about our team.
Discussion, News, Information and Speculation regarding the BC Lions and the CFL.
Prowl, Growl and Roar!

Moderator: Team Captains

Blitz
Team Captain
Posts: 9094
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:44 am

David wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:46 am
Check out this analysis of the game by one JC Abbott. This guy does a first-rate, bang-up job of capturing the on and off-field woes of Thursday's game under the dome.

I highly encourage all of you to read it.

DH :cool:
Thanks for posting it David. Its an excellent analysis that is balanced and reflects football knowledge and insight.

I particularly took note of his comments regarding Jarious Jackson.

__________________________________________

Out of all the coaches in the league, the one who should be most firmly on the hot seat is Lions’ offensive coordinator Jarious Jackson. As much as the players have struggled, Jackson’s monotonous play calling has set them up for failure.

It has been a familiar refrain in Vancouver. Once again, Jackson failed to establish the run game for an offensive line built to be physical road graders. He took a quarterback under continuous pressure and gave him slow developing deep routes.

Jackson’s play calling has left Reilly a sitting duck, with no attempt to roll him out of the pocket or discourage blitz through screens and hot routes.

Lions’ followers were anticipating a season of excitement, with shiny weapons on offence and the best gunslinger in the league. Instead, they’ve been treated to an offence that doesn’t challenge defences schematically.

J. C. Abbott
____________________________________

I think its very important that accountability for our Leos poor performances offensively be appropriate and balanced.


PLAYER SCAPEGOATING A COMMON THEME

As I highlighted in a previous post on this thread, in the past, making a player a scapegoats has been a common theme. It can be an easy thing to do for some people, wishing to target one person for their frustration.

After all, most of us fans had the opportunity learn from the best, as Wally Buono was the Zen Master of scapegoating and blame.

Last season Jonathan Jennings got a dose of that from Jarious and Hervey and Travis Lulay, Jeremiah Johnson, and Chris Rainey got a dose of it from Wally. It was also an attempt to deflect away from Jarious Jackson's dismal RPO offensive scheme and Jarious' coaching performance. Well, Jennings, Lulay, Johnson and Rainey are not here and the results so far have been worse, even with all the expensive free agent signings on offence.

DURON CARTER IS AN EASY SCAPEGOAT

Duron Carter has become a lightning rod for criticism from some and perhaps is being scapegoated too much. While I did not want us to sign Duron and also believe that it would be best for us to go with a different International in his place, by no means is Duron Carter mostly responsible for our pathetic offensive showings this season so far.

Going into the Edmonton contest, we had been least successful, in terms of completions, throwing to Brian Burnham, who has been well covered often this season, dispite being given prime routes based upon combination pass route design. Carter has mostly been used as a possession style receiver and been given the same type of 'plug and play routes' that Davier Posey and Ricky Collins were given last season.

While I don't blame Carter for our offensive woes, I believe we need a different style of International reciever to compliment Burnham. At the risk of signing another Eskimo, if Duke Williams became available, he is the type of receiver that I believe would compliment Burnham best.


OFFENSIVE LINE PLAY HAS BEEN OFFENSIVE

Duron Carter also doesn't protect Mike Reilly on most plays. The problem of our quarterback taking so many sacks is not a new problem. Defenses run and pass blitzed our offence all last season too and Jarious has no clue as to how to attack a blitzing defense. The problem is that his RPO offence invites that type of defense to be played against us.

But the blocking of Brett Boyko has been miserable. Foucault struggled at left tackle after Figuroa went down with injury. Our best offensive line play this season was when we played Calgary and had Figuroa at left tackle, Steward at left guard, Roy at center, Chungh at right guard, and Foucault at right tackle. Its the only time we have used that offensive line combination.

Against Calgary our offence scored 32 points as Reilly completed 86% of his passes for 354 yds. and two touchdowns. We only gave up 2 sacks in the contest.

So, what did we do? The next game, we went back to Boyko at tackle and Foucault at left guard. Why stick with something that works when we can go to something that doesn't work and then stick with something that doesn't work.


SACKS ARE NOT ALWAYS 'ON' THE OFFENSIVE LINE - ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE

But sacks are not always attributable to offensive lineman. The scheme is so important and on second down plays we have too many slow developing plays as well as too many receivers running deep routes. On first down, we often go RPO and the defense just overplays our short routes. Our offence has no balance....its either quick slant or out plays or wide screens on first down and long developing second down plays with no hot routes.

Sacks are also attibutable to the running back and as this article points out, White has not done a good job of picking up blitzers. Why we don't go two back set or tight end set mroe often with Mackie is puzzling. He is a good blocker and a good receiver. But Jarious likes spreading it out for his RPO scheme.

THE KEYS TO OUR OFFENCE

If I was given the keys to the offence for a day, I would

1) be bringing in a third International receiver

2)going with a starting offensive line configured of Figuroa, Steward, Roy, Chungh, and Kneval on the offensive line, with Foucault and Boyko as backups (and trading one of them), and

3) using more tight end and two back sets, taking advantage of Mackie's skill set.

But really, while some personnel changes could help our offence, they would not solve the 'elephant in the room' that our Leos brain trust will not take on and that is Jarious Jackson's offensive scheme and play calling.

WE DIDN'T NEED TO KEEP JACKSON AS OUR OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR

I don't buy into the concept we had to keep Jackson as our offensive coordinator this season. We could have said goodbye to Marcus Howell as our receivers coach. We could have named Jackson our 'passing game coordinator' and had him work with our quarterback and receivers. The passing game coordinator is just a fancy title that Jackson had in Edmonton and Regina but in reality he was just the quarterback coach.

We didn't need to hire Drew Tate and could have gone ahead and hired Chui (offensive line) and Nic Lewis (running backs). The salary that we spent on Howell and Tate could have been used to hire an offensive coordinator for this season. The reality is that Ed Hervey wanted Jarious Jackson as our offensive coordinator for this season. He went to the wall for Jackson last season and wanted him back this year in that same role.

WE PRESENTLY HAVE 5 OFFENSIVE COACHES

We presently have five ofensive coaches in Jarious Jackson, Brian Chui, Marcus Howell, Drew Tate, and Nik Lewis and this 'offensive' coaching staff is involved in coaching an offence comprised of a former MOP Grey Cup winning quarterback, two experienced tailbacks, three veteran receivers in Burnham, Carter, and Durant, and an offensive line comprised of three established veteran offensive lineman in Figuroa, Steward, and Chungh (along with two highly rated offensive lineman in Foucault and Boyko who were good enough to get NFL contracts)

Yet, somehow, with that amount of talent and experince, Jarious Jackson, with a bevy of assistant coaches helping him, can't conjure up one touchdown in a home game against a team that had its roster decimated last season.

WRAP

Until we deal with the 'elephant in the room', personnel changes will only improve our offence to a certain degree. In other words, we can renovate as many rooms as we wish to, or put an addition on, but until we have a solid foundation, the house is not going to be solid.

Until we change our schme and play calling and game planning on offence, there will be stuggles. Like last season, there will be a good game here and there that will entice us, as players make special plays or play 'above their heads'.

But like last season's embarrasing playoff loss in Hamilton, we still have the same equation and that equation is our offensive scheme and the man leading that equation is none other than Jarious Jackson, who mysteriosly still has the keys to our offence and is driving it the way he wants to, dispite dismal and embarssing results for 24 games and counting.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

SammyGreene wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:12 am
David wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:46 am
Check out this analysis of the game by one JC Abbott. This guy does a first-rate, bang-up job of capturing the on and off-field woes of Thursday's game under the dome.

I highly encourage all of you to read it.


DH :cool:
Excellent read. Also formerly known as "RatioBreaker" who did that fine job on the Lions' woeful o-line performance in the first Edmonton game as well.
Neither his replacement David Foucault (who bumped over from left guard) or right tackle Brett Boyko fared much better. Boyko continued to routinely be bull rushed into Reilly and Foucault showed the lack of foot speed that moved him to guard in the first place. While the interior of the line struggled with the unenviable task of controlling the push of Almondo Sewell, it was B.C.’s tackles who kept Reilly a sitting duck in the pocket by being bullied on the outside.

If Figueroa is injured for any length of time the Lions are in serious trouble, but even if he returns next week changes must be made. The organization has pinned its hopes to Boyko for a long time, but since his arrival he has shown exactly the qualities that kept him trapped on practice rosters in the NFL and stapled to the bench in the AAF. Boyko is soon to be 27 and playing his fifth season of pro football. He is no longer a raw rookie to be carefully developed. The Lions simply can’t afford to keep him on the field the way he has performed. -- J.C. Abbott
Thanks for posting, David.

Abbott knows his stuff. Lots of focus on the Lions, for better or worse. Ha ha

As noted, Foucault, with his length and pedigree might be better off at tackle. I don't think we should ditch Boyko just yet. But careful, detailed game planning is necessary to help our O Line.

WTF has happened that Steward is on the bench? He has a background at left tackle, even here, with success. Did he tick someone off?

Duron Carter is our guy. Be nice if we could get him going. He looks like he could be a catch and run guy in space.

Jarious? Lots of evidence out there that he just might not be able to run an offence as OC.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

J.C. Abbott on twitter

Screenshot_20190713_103029.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
David
Team Captain
Posts: 9370
Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2002 10:23 am
Location: Vancouver (Kitsilano)

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:24 am
Thanks for posting, David.

...As noted, Foucault, with his length and pedigree might be better off at tackle. I don't think we should ditch Boyko just yet. But careful, detailed game planning is necessary to help our O Line.
You're welcome, WCJ. To Blitz's point, we seemed to settle into the "right five" in Calgary, then inexplicably switched things up again - almost inexcusable for a position group like the O-line where continuity, repetition, and reliance on the guy next to you is critically important. Unless Steward got nicked up, I can't think why.

Now Figueroa may miss some action with an ankle injury and it's believed Chungh has a small bicep tear, we will be forced into more changes. According to Farhan Lalji, the club is considering inserting International Phillip Norman (who played the LG spot in preseason). What a hot mess.


DH :cool:
Roar, You Lions, Roar
User avatar
Don Miller
Legend
Posts: 1322
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2003 5:52 pm
Location: Chilliwack

Time to give JJackson the ticket out of Town. Give Lulay and or Drew Tate the keys as OC. Both successfull as Qb's. Jacklson's RPOffence is not working this year and was so so last year. We need another go to receiver. Shaq Johnson could be used more. O line has to be revamped. DT position still weak and linebackers not nearly as good as last year. Hervey has got his work cut out for him. 17000 fans the next home game will have at least 3000 Rider fans there.
Peanut Butter Joe/Willie Show
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

David wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:40 am
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:24 am
Thanks for posting, David.

...As noted, Foucault, with his length and pedigree might be better off at tackle. I don't think we should ditch Boyko just yet. But careful, detailed game planning is necessary to help our O Line.
You're welcome, WCJ. To Blitz's point, we seemed to settle into the "right five" in Calgary, then inexplicably switched things up again - almost inexcusable for a position group like the O-line where continuity, repetition, and reliance on the guy next to you is critically important. Unless Steward got nicked up, I can't think why.

Now Figueroa may miss some action with an ankle injury and it's believed Chungh has a small bicep tear, we will be forced into more changes. According to Farhan Lalji, the club is considering inserting International Phillip Norman (who played the LG spot in preseason). What a hot mess.


DH :cool:
Re O Linemen

I always liked Tommie Draheim when he played here at left tackle. He seems to have found a home with the Eskimos.

Also, I don't think we should give up on OL coach Bryan Chiu, either. What ails our OL might not be lack of talent nor coaching. It might be shock. No run game in games 1 and 2. No preparation vs a blitz-happy defence, which teams automatically use against us. Virtually no screen passes, nor draw plays, nor short release passes, et cetera.

Whatever, it ain't pretty right now. And I expect many fans are just giving up. Just us die hards here, wailing in the darkness.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
User avatar
BC 1988
Legend
Posts: 1357
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:58 pm
Location: BC (since 1988)

WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:32 am
J.C. Abbott on twitter


Screenshot_20190713_103029.jpg
I see he decided to change his twitter feed, but his site is still (for the time being at least) anonymous. (Complete with an unfinished "About" page).
https://theratiobreaker.com/about/
Looks like his new 3downnation work will be exclusively on there. Can't argue with anything he says. (Other than the contentious ratiobreaker piece about Lawrence/Collaros--which incidentally, it looks like Ambrosie agrees with. )
https://3downnation.com/2019/07/13/rand ... t-hearing/
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

BC 1988 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:01 am
WestCoastJoe wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:32 am
J.C. Abbott on twitter


Screenshot_20190713_103029.jpg
I see he decided to change his twitter feed, but his site is still (for the time being at least) anonymous. (Complete with an unfinished "About" page).
https://theratiobreaker.com/about/
Looks like his new 3downnation work will be exclusively on there. Can't argue with anything he says. (Other than the contentious ratiobreaker piece about Lawrence/Collaros--which incidentally, it looks like Ambrosie agrees with. )
https://3downnation.com/2019/07/13/rand ... t-hearing/
Yup. I wonder if he is a local guy. Has he ever posted on here? I expect he saw my posts and pix on OL play, and other positions, over the years. It is a lot of work. I will be happy to take a back seat. The enthusiasm wanes when the team plays so poorly.

I think we can be happy with the overall CFL coverage. 3DownNation. Farhan Lalji. The TSN panel. Good announcers and commentators.

When will people, Canadians, especially those in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal, realize that the little, old CFL is a better brand of football than the glitzy, over-priced, over-hyped NFL?

Just imo, as a long time CFL fan.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
TurfGuy
prospect
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:38 pm

Now Figueroa may miss some action with an ankle injury and it's believed Chungh has a small bicep tear, we will be forced into more changes. According to Farhan Lalji, the club is considering inserting International Phillip Norman (who played the LG spot in preseason). What a hot mess.


DH :cool:
[/quote]

Does not have to a 'hot mess'. The Lions have a 2018 draft pick in National David Knevel (Nebraska Cornhuskers). Several times last season, Knevel went in at both RT and LT; played 16 games last year. With his background and his size, he should be considered to replace either Figueroa or Boyko.
User avatar
B.C.FAN
Team Captain
Posts: 12590
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:28 pm

Ed Willes quotes Ed Hervey talking about re-examining the entire roster in light of the Lions' 1-4 start, and he singled out the offensive line and Duron Carter for his harshest criticism.
“This is where I get myself in trouble,” he said during the course of a lengthy phone conversation. “I’m going to take 15 seconds here and think about what I want to say so I don’t create a firestorm.”
“After a few weeks my concern is some players aren’t fitting into the system the way we thought they would,” Hervey continued. “There are some positions we really have to look at. We can’t carry on the same way.

“It’s fundamental things. I’ll take it a step further and say some things are motivation. We’ll trying to answer some questions in the next couple of weeks but we have to look deeper at this.”
“I want our battles to be won upfront. I can take a blown play here or there but there’s no substitute for physical play. I want us to be more physical.”
“I still believe there’s a combination that can be effective,” he said. “The level of inconsistency has been baffling to me.

“We have to protect (quarterback) Mike Reilly. We have to control the line of scrimmage. We must find it within ourselves to be more physical.”
“Have we seen the best of Duron as a player?” he asked rhetorically. “We haven’t seen it yet. Will we see it? That’s the big question right now. Believe me, we’ve had those conversations with him trying to pull his talent out.

“It’s talked about around the league. Where’s Duron Carter? I guess he’ll have to answer that question for you.”
“I can say this and it’s not like it’s highly classified information,” Hervey said. “We’re looking at the entire roster and the makeup of our team. We owe it to our fans and what we’re trying to build here. Maybe we need to re-evaluate our thinking in a couple of places.

“If we’re unable to see production from some areas, maybe we need to look at other players. The reality is we’re a 1-4 team in search of an identity.”
Ed Willes: Missing identity, missing in action. GM consumed by Lions' fix-it list
User avatar
DanoT
Hall of Famer
Posts: 4316
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 6:38 pm
Location: Victoria, B.C. in summer, Sun Peaks Resort in winter

B.C.FAN wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:41 pm
Ed Willes quotes Ed Hervey talking about re-examining the entire roster in light of the Lions' 1-4 start, and he singled out the offensive line and Duron Carter for his harshest criticism.
“This is where I get myself in trouble,” he said during the course of a lengthy phone conversation. “I’m going to take 15 seconds here and think about what I want to say so I don’t create a firestorm.”
“After a few weeks my concern is some players aren’t fitting into the system the way we thought they would,” Hervey continued. “There are some positions we really have to look at. We can’t carry on the same way.

“It’s fundamental things. I’ll take it a step further and say some things are motivation. We’ll trying to answer some questions in the next couple of weeks but we have to look deeper at this.”
“I want our battles to be won upfront. I can take a blown play here or there but there’s no substitute for physical play. I want us to be more physical.”
“I still believe there’s a combination that can be effective,” he said. “The level of inconsistency has been baffling to me.

“We have to protect (quarterback) Mike Reilly. We have to control the line of scrimmage. We must find it within ourselves to be more physical.”
“Have we seen the best of Duron as a player?” he asked rhetorically. “We haven’t seen it yet. Will we see it? That’s the big question right now. Believe me, we’ve had those conversations with him trying to pull his talent out.

“It’s talked about around the league. Where’s Duron Carter? I guess he’ll have to answer that question for you.”
“I can say this and it’s not like it’s highly classified information,” Hervey said. “We’re looking at the entire roster and the makeup of our team. We owe it to our fans and what we’re trying to build here. Maybe we need to re-evaluate our thinking in a couple of places.

“If we’re unable to see production from some areas, maybe we need to look at other players. The reality is we’re a 1-4 team in search of an identity.”
Ed Willes: Missing identity, missing in action. GM consumed by Lions' fix-it list
Maybe Ed should look at his OC or more correctly Claybrooks needs to read Jackson the riot act.
JohnnyMusso
Champion
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2015 6:03 pm

From that article it is pretty clear changes are coming. Probably a few before the Rider game and likely more after the home and home, especially if Lions lose both. Sept 1 is the deadline to cut veteran players and not pay their salaries and I fully expect some vets will be cut or traded before then if this season goes the way we all think it will.
User avatar
WestCoastJoe
Hall of Famer
Posts: 17721
Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 8:55 pm

DanoT wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:55 pm
Maybe Ed should look at his OC or more correctly Claybrooks needs to read Jackson the riot act.
Dano, it doesn't sound like he is looking at Jarious. Yet. Or Claybrooks.

First under the bus: players. Next: coaches. Last: GM.

Duron Carter seems to be testing the limits on twitter. ''Not Duron Carter.''

https://3downnation.com/2019/07/10/duro ... edia-fine/
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
MacNews
Team Captain
Posts: 3941
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 12:48 pm

swervynmerv wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:52 pm
On another matter. In Jarious Jackson’s CFL career, what did he accomplish to demonstrate that he would be a good OC. For the most part he was an average QB who was more often than not a back-up.
No offense to Jarious, he's a great guy. He's won several Grey Cup rings. But I don't think he's ready to be an OC. I don't understand why he was hired in that role.
TheLionKing
Hall of Famer
Posts: 25103
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:13 pm
Location: Vancouver

Maybe Ed Hervey should critically re-evaluate his penchant for signing former Eskies.
Post Reply