Lions 18 - Argos 17 -- Post-Game Comments

[swervynmerv]

If you can take in a Lions practice you'll see the rationale for not knocking Duron Carter or the other receivers. Folks the structure of offence is a coaching decision and Jarius is continuing in the tradition of the modern BC Lions in being pretty much vanilla and devoid of creativity.

You may have a valid point. I just saw his act here for 2 seasons in Saskatchewan.

One factor in making a call on him may be the back to backs against the Riders. Duron is cocky enough to want to stick it up the Riders you know what and get 160 yards a game

[WestCoastJoe]

https://theprovince.com/sports/football ... aros-18-17

From Ed Willes

“We understand we made the game a lot tougher on ourselves than it should have been,” said Claybrooks, who received a Gatorade shower post-game. “But we’re building and it’s a step in the right direction.

“Defensively we didn’t give up 30 for the first time so that’s a positive. As long the guys keep working and keep believing, we’ll continue to get better.”

“I’ve got a lot of trust in Lemar. We knew Burnham wasn’t coming on the trip and I was going to have to lean on Lemar. He’s earned that right.”

“This game easily could have been another loss,” Reilly said. “We could be sitting here 2-2 (with a win in Calgary). We could be 0-4. We’re 1-3 and that’s probably how it should go by the way we’ve played. We’ll take the win but there was a lot of things we struggled with.”

[Robbie]

When was the last time you remember the Lions winning a game on a last-play rouge?

I remember on Oct. 20, 1991 in Commonwealth Stadium, on the last play of the second overtime Lui Passaglia purposely kicked the ball into endzone corner and not through the uprights for a 39-38 win.

[JohnnyMusso]

I only saw part of the game, for went downtown last night to see the Paul McCartney concert. He put on a great show, unlike the Lions.

I predicted at beginning of year, Lions would finish dead last int e West and have not changed my mind after 4 games. Lions were lucky to beat a very bad Argos team. Lions put too much of their salary cap on a few players and it shows on defence and their poor receiving core. Their defence is not very good and I expect them to begin losing again against the Eskimos. Eskimos off season moves look to be paying off and I don't think the Lions are good enough to beat them on Thursday. Last year, when the Lions started slow, Hervey made some moves which paid off. Does he have the cap space to do that this year? Looking ahead I see the Lions going 1 and 2 in the next 3 games. They likely will split with the Riders winning here and losing in Regina.

[yukonlion]

The first Q was brutal for the lions O with JJ reverting to his play calling,... picked up after that and I'm sure no one was more shocked than the coaches when simonise drop 3 easy catches that were drive killers and Cotoy (who i think has a huge upside) dropped an easy on as well.. we make those catches i feel the game wouldnt have been close... def collapse at end of games still head scratching

[Blitz]

At this point of the season, I neither feel doom or optimism.

With Mike Reilly at quarterback, with Burnham and Lemar at receiver, with a couple of good Nationals in Shaq Johnson and Cottoy at receiver, and with White running hard as well as healthy, I'm comfortable enough at our skill positions on offence.

I also believe, while Duron Carter is not the best answer for our second International receiver position, he is enough of an asset if we stop using him as a possession receiver and give him some pass patterns that enable him to use his strengths.

I also believe we have enough talent on our offensive line to get the job done, In fact, while I would prefer Steward back at left guard and Foucault at right tackle and would also lean towards a different International receiver at guard, overall, this offence has the ability to be very good.

So, right now, I don't know if Jarious Jackson will be allowed to use his offensive scheme all season or whether he will be forced to change it. I cannot see him changing his scheme on his own.

Its either too much of a religion for him or its all he knows at this point. If Jackson is running the same stuff he ran in the first game of last season and has not evolved, there isn't much hope.

Last season Jackson got away with it because Jennings was scapegoated successfully by Hervey and Jackson and Wally blew up at Lulay twice during games, making it appear that when stuggles happened offensively it was his fault.

That is not going to happen with Reilly. Not only is Reilly's reputation and status well cemented but he is also more assertive than Travis Lulay. Over time, my best guess is that Reilly is going to push Jackson to do some things differently on offence than in the past or Reilly is going to get Claybrooks ear and Claybrooks is going to push Jackson to make some changes.

This offensive crap has gone on now for 22 games but I don't think it can last 36 games.

On defense, we are going to need to make some personnel changes during the season if we want a high caliber defense going into the playoffs. Many of the players on our defense were not starters or wanted by their previous teams.

This is the area that Hervey really screwed up on for 2019. He should know that championship teams have 1) excellent quarterbacking and 2) excellent defense. Hervey ensured that we had excellent quarterbacking going forward by signing Reilly. But he missed on the defensive side of the football for this season.

For example, you won't find a guard in the CFL making $150,000 and yet Hervey overpaid Chiung by at least $100,000. Hervey also has to be paying Konar around $150,000 because he would not take less to stay in Edmonton.

That is at least $250,000 Hervey had at his disposal to sign a Shawn Lemon or a Willie Jefferson. But if he did not want to do that, at least one would think that he would have been able to bring in a defensive end to replace Lemon that had a pedigree better than Boesen, Darius Allen, or Kolamatangi.

One would also assume that he would be able to recruit an International wide wide corner and not be stuck bringing back Anthony Thompson to play out of position.

Hervey has made some good trades, made some good pickups, and signed some good free agents. He has been a much more active GM than Wally and overall, that has been to our Leos benefit.

However, Hervey has had two behaviors that have not been his friend. The first, which I have mentioned in a previous thread, was to sign any player who had previously played in an Eskimo uniform. This has been much more than just being familiar with the players. Its almost been pathological.

Secondly, Hervey seems to have wanted to get rid of any Leo who played in the Buono era if he could. Its one thing to make a team 'your own' but Hervey has been in too much of a rush to do so. The only starters on our 2019 Leos team that also started for Wally are Steward (who presently is in the doghouse), Bryan Burnham, Anthony Thompson (who was jettisoned and brought back only because our defense was in trouble) and Lee.

Herdman-Reed started some games last season but he would be given a pass as he did not start until Hervey arrived. My best guess is that Burnham, Steward, and Lee would also have been jettisoned by Hervey but too difficult to do for this season.

I also hold Hervey responsible for Jarious Jackson. Hervey advocated for Jackson to Wally and while Wally forced Jackson to simplify his offence, as he did to every offensive coordinator, Wally also left Jackson alone to run his scheme. That did not work out well for Wally in his final season.

I am still optimistic that we can bring in some NFL cuts to shore up the weak areas of our defense. I still believe that our offensive scheme could still undergo some changes but those changes will be forced upon Jackson.

If we make some scheme changes and some key defensive personnel changes I think we could not only make the playoffs but also be a more successful playoff team than in previous seasons. However, I also believe, with our present scheme and our talent deficiencies on defense, this could also be another tough season for Leo fans.

In other words, the glass is half full. It could become full or empty depending on how things go, moving forward.

[David]

The only starters on our 2019 Leos team that also started for Wally are Steward (who presently is in the doghouse), Bryan Burnham, Anthony Thompson (who was jettisoned and brought back only because our defense was in trouble) and Lee.

Hervey does seem determined to put his own stamp on this team but I think you're forgetting about David Foucault and Shaq Johnson.

I agree we overpaid in a couple of key areas. I thought Chungh was better in pass pro than what he's shown thus far. I've seen a lot of mistakes for $250,000.

Hopefully, some impact CFLers currently trying their luck down south can be convinced to come up here should they be released (i.e. Duke Williams or Bryant Mitchell) but we'll likely have to shed some salary somewhere. We really need to upgrade the DE position (Willis had a much better game against Toronto but Boesen continues to be underwhelming). I am less bullish on Shawn Lemon than you though, Blitz.

If we can upgrade the short side WR position, I wouldn't mind seeing what Duron Carter can do at field corner.


DH

[WestCoastJoe]

If we can upgrade the short side WR position, I wouldn't mind seeing what Duron Carter can do at field corner.

DH

Dunno about that, David. It seems to me he got beat like a drum in Regina, trying to play CB. Yes, there was one big interception return. It seems to me he lacks the quickness, footwork and even top end speed for the position. He is an athlete for sure, but does not necessarily have the coverage skills, acquired over years of playing the position. Deion Sanders, who played receiver, DB and kick returner had max speed (4.27 in the 40). I was shocked to see how well he covered Jerry Rice, and also Michael Irvin.

https://leaderpost.com/sports/football/ ... f-the-ball

“He’s definitely getting more confidence as a defensive back,” said veteran receiver Naaman Roosevelt. “He has a better understanding of where he needs to be on the field and sometimes he’s out there just roaming. He might be in his zone and see the ball go the other way and just (react) because of what he’s reading on that play.”

“I’m a sponge when it comes to defence,’’ Carter said. “I don’t know anything and I’m trying to get as much information as I can on reading receivers to be a better defensive player.”

“I’m trying to get as many defensive reps as possible,” Carter said. “I haven’t played defence growing up and guys have a million reps that they have seen. I’m just trying to catch up because I think I have offence down pat.”

Chris Jones was in his corner, until he was released. It seems to me, that, as a DB, Duron would be a project.

Chris Jones, the Riders’ head coach and general manager, recalled that Carter pestered him for three weeks in 2017 for the opportunity to play defensive back. Jones relented and Carter rewarded him by returning an interception 43 yards for a touchdown in a 30-7 win over the Calgary Stampeders on Oct. 20.

“Duron is a much better defensive back than anyone would give him credit for,” Jones said. “He’s a lot more physical than people would give him credit for. He’s going to tackle low more times than not and it’s not like he’s stomping his feet. He’s running through tackles and he can do everything when the ball is in the air and that makes him even more of a threat.”

People do believe in Duron Carter. Eventually it seems to go south. He waits, and then another team gives him a chance. He did have success in Montreal as a receiver. Hopefully we can see that here.

Just imo.

[Lion Fan For Life]

It's interesting reading all of the these Ex Pro's on here, passing on their years of experience playing the game on both sides of the border, in both Professional leagues. lol
It makes me laugh, when we here terms like "the Hogs"?
We are talking about the BC Lions "O" line here, not the Washington Redskins.
Our "O" line are lucky to just have a job for now.
How many times has Riley been sacked so far, in the first 4 games?
Yes White had a great game, but who were we playing against?
We all saw the game guys, no need to break it down for us, as if you are Howie Long or Terry Bradshaw etc.
Just the facts will do.
The facts are, Claybrooks is not the guy, period.
So much so, that he surrounded himself with his own kind, and by that , I mean rookie coach's.
Claybrooks is solely responsible for the product on the field, and for its record.
Facts: Boesen is absolutely terrible, and is totally out of his league, what ever league that might be?
Message to Boesen, You are no Clay Matthews, so cut of that pile of string and concentrate on playing Football .
That hair got you noticed in training camp, but that same hair is getting you noticed for doing absolutely "F" all out there.
Boesen is an easy target, but in fairness to him, that entire Front Line is absolutely Frigging terrible.
The Linebackers are just as bad, if not worse.
Yes, the Solomon wannabe in the middle, got lucky with a shoulder smack on that return, but he tried the same thing on their touch down, which led to the score.
WRAP the guy up on the hits, the shoulder thing without wrapping up, is what gave them that late touchdown.
The DB's?
Enough said.
These guys were all picked by Claybrooks, this is Claybrooks team.
Claybrooks is the Head Coach, he is the Boss, he is the only one responsible for this embarrassment.
They were playing the worst team in the league, and should have lost again.
Oh wait a minute, that's not true, they play the worst team in the league, at each and every practise.
The sooner that they clean house, the sooner that the Fans "might" start to show some interest and return.
Claybrooks and his entire coaching staff have to go.

[Reggiemac]

Did any guys noticethat when passes intended for him are intercepted he doesnt make much iof an effort to tackle the interceptor. Just quits on the play. On the interception in the argo game he ended up running withthe DB and made little effort to tackle him. Release him now!

[Toppy Vann]

If you can take in a Lions practice you'll see the rationale for not knocking Duron Carter or the other receivers. Folks the structure of offence is a coaching decision and Jarius is continuing in the tradition of the modern BC Lions in being pretty much vanilla and devoid of creativity.

You may have a valid point. I just saw his act here for 2 seasons in Saskatchewan.

One factor in making a call on him may be the back to backs against the Riders. Duron is cocky enough to want to stick it up the Riders you know what and get 160 yards a game

Blitz:

I also believe, while Duron Carter is not the best answer for our second International receiver position, he is enough of an asset if we stop using him as a possession receiver and give him some pass patterns that enable him to use his strengths.

If you go back over the games you'll see that Lamar Durant as do others - benefit by the tight coverage on Carter. He's got a skill set that must be taken advantage of but all that crap BC runs with little depth to the game and too much too close to the LOS is not getting him open.
When they move him around the DEF immediately moves to cover him as the LIONS continue to be PREDICTABLE as they have for so many recent years.

[David]

To me, the problem is our receivers just not able to get separation. We can see when our primary target (Burnham) goes out of the line-up, just how weak we are. With Reilly mic'd up, I could really sense his frustration with guys not being where they're supposed to be. He was leaning heavily on Durant to move around because I could see as plain as day that's the only guy he trusts.

Further to this point, Farhan Lalji this morning on TSN1040 radio:

I saw guys just not knowing assignments in terms of Mike having to move them around, but guys earlier in the game, flat-out weren’t getting open….losing one guy shouldn’t gut you to that degree.


DH

[JohnnyMusso]

It's interesting reading all of the these Ex Pro's on here, passing on their years of experience playing the game on both sides of the border, in both Professional leagues. lol
It makes me laugh, when we here terms like "the Hogs"?
We are talking about the BC Lions "O" line here, not the Washington Redskins.
Our "O" line are lucky to just have a job for now.
How many times has Riley been sacked so far, in the first 4 games?
Yes White had a great game, but who were we playing against?
We all saw the game guys, no need to break it down for us, as if you are Howie Long or Terry Bradshaw etc.
Just the facts will do.
The facts are, Claybrooks is not the guy, period.
So much so, that he surrounded himself with his own kind, and by that , I mean rookie coach's.
Claybrooks is solely responsible for the product on the field, and for its record.
Facts: Boesen is absolutely terrible, and is totally out of his league, what ever league that might be?
Message to Boesen, You are no Clay Matthews, so cut of that pile of string and concentrate on playing Football .
That hair got you noticed in training camp, but that same hair is getting you noticed for doing absolutely "F" all out there.
Boesen is an easy target, but in fairness to him, that entire Front Line is absolutely Frigging terrible.
The Linebackers are just as bad, if not worse.
Yes, the Solomon wannabe in the middle, got lucky with a shoulder smack on that return, but he tried the same thing on their touch down, which led to the score.
WRAP the guy up on the hits, the shoulder thing without wrapping up, is what gave them that late touchdown.
The DB's?
Enough said.
These guys were all picked by Claybrooks, this is Claybrooks team.
Claybrooks is the Head Coach, he is the Boss, he is the only one responsible for this embarrassment.
They were playing the worst team in the league, and should have lost again.
Oh wait a minute, that's not true, they play the worst team in the league, at each and every practise.
The sooner that they clean house, the sooner that the Fans "might" start to show some interest and return.
Claybrooks and his entire coaching staff have to go.

It is pretty obvious that Lion Fan for Life is Ray Nettles Ghost from the style and content of the writing. Nevertheless, you don't seem to understand that the CFL has a coaching cap in place and they cannot fire Claybrooks and his entire staff and replace them for they likely are at the cap and cannot go over it without being assessed a fine by the CFL. And like others said to you before it is way too early to fire Claybrooks and his staff after just 4 games.

Also Hervey is the guy who signed all the ex Eskimos and got rid of all Wally's guys. To solely place the blame on Claybrooks and his staff and not point to the finger at all to Hervey is ridiculous and wrong. He is the GM and he brought in the new players and dumped others. He hired the player personal guys and frankly they have done a terrible job at recruiting new American talent. If blame is to be placed it has to go equally between Hervey and Claybrooks.

Yes, the team is terrible, but no changes to the coaching staff or GM will happen till the end of the season. Hervey's contract is up and it will be up to he president to decide if he gets a new contract or he fired. Claybrooks likely will get another year, unless their record is really bad and some of the coaches like Jarious Jackson likely will be fired.

[cromartie]

Sometimes you win by simply being the team to not make a mistake last.

First, on Duron Carter. He's fine. He was tied for second in targets and is playing, more often than not, inside in a poorly designed offense. He was also a willing Tight End on a couple of plays in the second half and excelled at downfield blocking, as well as in-line blocking when asked. I'll go so far as to say he's doing the things he's asked to do and doing them very well. But he's not being asked to do the right things.

I've always liked Mike Reilly, and still do, but he's not very good with his head. He doesn't outright telegraph his intended receiver but you can watch his head and know generally where he wants to throw the ball, and that's not a good thing. If he isn't looking your way, the ball isn't coming to your side of the field and you can adjust accordingly.

John White will run exactly where you tell him to, which is good, but he doesn't exactly inspire with his vision. He had a fine game but there were a number of holes opening up as the game progressed that he didn't see and probably isn't really the type of runner that will see. There were rushing yards left on the field, which, I suppose, is a testament to the fact that we have a good run blocking line.

But not a great pass blocking one. We used a six man line four times. All in the second half, three of them for runs, two of those runs were for positive yardage. Of the two passes, one was complete (and a really good play call), the other was a critical drop by Bundy to kill a drive that good teams score on to put bad teams away. This is not a line that's going to allow you to fool opponents by running out of a pass blocking setup, either.

Having said that, all but one of the sacks on Reilly were coverage sacks. I don't like the lack of imagination in this offense; the closest "feel" I have in terms of philosophy is the type of NFL offense Tom Clements ran in Green Bay. It's stale, disguises little, doesn't really leverage crossing routes, slants or pre-snap disguises extensively and doesn't make the most of the talent we have at receiver. "Run to your spot and hope ti find a hole in the zone".

Above and beyond that, this is an undisciplined team that made a number of mental mistakes late, in particular that could have and arguably should have cost them.

From the 7:30 of the 4th quarter onward:

Bundy's drop.
Holding on the punt return on the next drive.
A Time Count penalty on the offensive possession.
A Face Mask on the ensuing punt.
Four missed tackles on the Wilder TD.
Procedure on the Field Goal kick.
Missed Field Goal.

That's seven mental mistakes or unforced errors in the last 7:30 of the game. And while a win is a win, there isn't really much here that's encouraging about it. This starts with coaching and, at the moment, it's pretty grim, though the defense is beginning to come around.

Though, as always, I root for it to improve.

[Ballistic Bob]

Just wondering if the ball was kicked
Out of the endzone at end of game and no yards was called on Toronto.would Lions have had one more play with os on the clock. BB