Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

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Who would be your favourite retired BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Travis Lulay (2009-18, 2011 MOP and GC MVP)
13
42%
Casey Printers (2003-05, 2009-10, 2004 MOP)
0
No votes
Jarius Jackson (2005-11, 2 GC as backup)
0
No votes
Dave Dickenson (2003-07, 2006 GC)
3
10%
Damon Allen (1996-02, 2000 GC)
0
No votes
Danny McManus (1993-95, 1994 GC)
0
No votes
Doug Flutie (1990-91, 1991 MOP)
2
6%
Matt Dunigan (1988-89)
1
3%
Roy Dewalt (1980-87, 1985 GC)
8
26%
Joe Kapp (1961-66, 1964 GC)
4
13%
 
Total votes: 31
JohnnyMusso
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Robbie said:

Please clarify, what exactly do you mean when you say If Bob O had not screwed up ? Are you saying that the Lions didn't re-sign him after 1991? Keep in mind that with so much money on the line, it was up to then owner Murray Pezim to provide a great offer for Doug Flutie - and it was the Calgary Stampeders owner and not the GM Larry Ryckman who gave that offer the Flutie.

From my memory, Obie convinced Pezim to trade Flutie for he wanted too much money. Obie said it was his offence not Flutie that was the reason for its success. It was a huge mistake and Obie screwed up for he did not realize how good Flutie was. Lions should have finished 1st that year, but lost final home game to Tiger Cats, for they took them too lightly and finished 3rd and lost in the semi finals. Flutie was a star here and was the most exciting QB Lions had in a long time. He attracted fans to the games. That trade was a mistake and even Pezim I recall admitted it and regretted trading him. Danny Barrett is what we got in return and he was no Flutie and was a bust here. I think the Lions did not even make the Playoffs, lost fans due to trading Flutie and it was the beginning of a real down period for the Lions. Obie got fired at the end of the season I think or one after. if they kept Flutie I think they would have won the Grey Cup or at least been competitive for that guy was the best QB I ever saw play in the CFL and I started watching in 1971.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Robbie said:

The other reason is because Jarious Jackson does hold a unique honour that no Lions QB has ever done and that is....win TWO Grey Cups as a Lion.

That means nothing for he was a backup? Who remembers who the Lions backup was when Lions won the Cup in 64? I don't. Ken Dryden won 6 Stanley Cups, but do they rate his backups are being among the best goalies to play for Montreal for they won 4 or 5 cups. Bunny L hold that honour, but he was a bust as a starter when Dryden retired. No one would ever list him on a list of Greatest Canadians goalies. That argument does not wash. Sorry Robbie I don't agree. Jackson was an average QB and no way should he be rated ahead of Joe Paopao.

Joe PaoPao is more deserving. Are you old enough to remember him? I do. He led BC to the playoffs many times after a string of dreadful QBs Lions had in the 70's, except Jerry Tagge. Lions missed the playoffs for years before Joe & Tagge and Rapp came. Paopao was a very good QB and only reason he never made it to the Grey Cup with the Lions was because the Eskimos had Warren Moon and were a dynasty and were impossible to beat then.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

I forgot about Danny McManus (1993 - 1995). He should be on the list too for he won a Grey Cup. To mean winning a Grey Cup means way more than winning regular season games or being starter for a few years. Danny Mac is ahead of JJ on my list. My memories of Jackson was he went a long time not winning one game as a starter both in NFL and CFL. He just never impressed me and nothing about his play stands out. Don Moorhead played here for years too, but was the worst QB I saw.

To me even if a Lion only played a few years here, they can still be rated among the best. Dunnigan is another that make my list. Way better than JJ and lead us to a Grey Cup which we should have won. Kapp never should have traded him. We traded 5 good players to get him and only got 1 good one back. Dunnigan should have played here longer as Flutie. Both Kapp and Obie made critical mistakes that lead to them getting fired, though Kapp did something underhanded which is why he got fired. Don't remember what though.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

In hindsight, Casey I guess could be on the list because he won a MVP. But after he left for the NFL, he just never was the same.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm From my memory, Obie convinced Pezim to trade Flutie for he wanted too much money. Obie said it was his offence not Flutie that was the reason for its success. It was a huge mistake and Obie screwed up for he did not realize how good Flutie was.
As explained later, there was no actual trade involving Doug Flutie but rather, a trade between the Lions and Stampeders after Doug Flutie was signed as a free agent by Calgary.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm Lions should have finished 1st that year, but lost final home game to Tiger Cats, for they took them too lightly and finished 3rd and lost in the semi finals.
Yes, a huge choke. What was very frustrating in that 1991 is that while the Lions had a decent road record at 7-2, they had a losing home record at 4-5, disappointing the home Lions fans.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm Flutie was a star here and was the most exciting QB Lions had in a long time. He attracted fans to the games.
Well, I'd say that with his scrambling abilities, Matt Dunigan was fairly exciting as well when he joined the Lions in 1988 and he managed to get the team to a Grey Cup appearance. So it was a good QB upgrade replacing the aging Roy Dewalt with Matt Dunigan. For some reason, Lions fans didn't seem to be too upset when Dunigan was traded by Joe Kapp to the Argonauts.

What exactly are your thoughts on Matt Dunigan and would you agree that he was an exciting QB as well?
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm That trade was a mistake and even Pezim I recall admitted it and regretted trading him. Danny Barrett is what we got in return and he was no Flutie and was a bust here.
Okay, just for the record. In March 1992, Doug Flutie became a free agent and was signed by the Calgary Stampeders. That left incumbent Calgary Stampeders starting quarterback Danny Barrett who led the team to a Grey Cup appearance in 1991 as expendable. And the Lions were left without an experienced quarterback. So it was agreed between the two teams that there was going to be a trade - with Danny Barrett going to the Lions in exchange for linemen Rocco Romano and Jamie Crysdale. There's no doubt who won the trade as those two linemen served as long-term Stampeders while Barrett was no replacement for Flutie and only survived two seasons.

So while the Doug Flutie free agent signing by Calgary triggered a subsequent trade between the two teams, that trade itself did not involve Doug Flutie.

As an aside, I stated this numerous times before. Instead of trading for Danny Barrett at that time, the Lions should have shopped around some more and possibly attempt to re-sign Matt Dunigan who became a free agent as well after leading the Argonauts to the 1991 GC. Instead, Dunigan was signed by the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and he led the team to two consecutive Grey Cup appearances. Maybe the Lions were not interested in signing Dunigan again because they felt that he was too injury prone in that he only played 8 games in each of his two seasons in Toronto.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:46 pm I think the Lions did not even make the Playoffs, lost fans due to trading Flutie and it was the beginning of a real down period for the Lions. Obie got fired at the end of the season I think or one after. if they kept Flutie I think they would have won the Grey Cup.
The Lions had a terrible 3-15 year in 1992 with both a terrible offence and defence, and I highly doubt that with the terrible defence the Lions would have won a Grey Cup with Doug Flutie around. Things improved somewhat in 1993 with a 10-8 record but still a fourth place finish and a first round playoff loss. I stated numerous times that trading Danny Barrett away for Kent Austin was one of the best QB trades ever.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 pm That means nothing for he was a backup? Jackson was an average QB and no way should he be rated ahead of Joe Paopao.
At least Jarious Jackson was managed to be in the roster and was indeed delegated as the starter a few times.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:01 pm Joe PaoPao is more deserving. Are you old enough to remember him? I do. He led BC to the playoffs many times after a string of dreadful QBs Lions had in the 70's, except Jerry Tagge. Lions missed the playoffs for years before Joe & Tagge and Rapp came. Paopao was a very good QB and only reason he never made it to the Grey Cup with the Lions was because the Eskimos had Warren Moon and were a dynasty and were impossible to beat then.
When Casey Printers left the team after his first stint in 2005, most Lions fans still had mostly positive impressions of him despite his departure. But upon his return to the team in 2008 and his departure in late 2009 after his second stint, any positive impressions were immediately tainted by negative impressions and memories. I think of players in their entirety if he had two more or more engagements with the team. Despite being the starter in several games in the 1990 season when Joe Paopao decided to go out of retirement, he didn't do all that. And he didn't do all that well either as a head coach in 1996 with a 5-13 record.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:13 pm I forgot about Danny McManus (1993 - 1995).
To me even if a Lion only played a few years here, they can still be rated among the best. Dunnigan is another that make my list. In hindsight, Casey I guess could be on the list because he won a MVP. But after he left for the NFL, he just never was the same.
And those three are on my poll list.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:17 pm Kapp never should have traded him. We traded 5 good players to get him and only got 1 good one back. Dunnigan should have played here longer as Flutie. Both Kapp and Obie made critical mistakes that lead to them getting fired, though Kapp did something underhanded which is why he got fired. Don't remember what though.
I'll ask you the same question I asked Fred. Assuming your impressions and memories of Joe Kapp were good given the fact that he led the Lions to their first Grey Cup in 1964, then were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games?


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Robbie wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:24 am Assuming your impressions and memories of Joe Kapp were good given the fact that he led the Lions to their first Grey Cup in 1964, then were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games?
Joe Kapp was my first childhood sports hero but two things tarnished his image for me.

1. His return as team president, GM and head coach, was marked by missteps on and off the field. One of the biggest for me was Kapp's role in the introduction of silver as the Lions' secondary uniform colour in 1990. I didn't mind the return to black home jerseys but I'm a traditionalist. The silver helmets and pants made them look too much like the Raiders of the NFL.

2. Kapp's on-stage fight with Angelo Mosca at a 2011 Grey Cup event was embarrassing, and further tarnished his legacy.


"I think [Fred Fateri] was like a lot of people who watch football, hockey or any professional sport on television. They sit there and think they could coach better than the professional. Some people really think that." - Bob Ackles, The Water Boy
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:09 am 1. His return as team president, GM and head coach, was marked by missteps on and off the field.
Joe Kapp was only President and General Manager in 1990 but not Head Coach as Lary Kurarich started off as head coach, replaced by Jim Young for one day, and eventually Bob O'Billovich to close out the season.
B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:09 am One of the biggest for me was Kapp's role in the introduction of silver as the Lions' secondary uniform colour in 1990. I didn't mind the return to black home jerseys but I'm a traditionalist. The silver helmets and pants made them look too much like the Raiders of the NFL.
The orange shoulder stripes also resembled those of the Cincinnati Bengals uniform.
Image
The shoulder stripes lasted for two seasons before they were removed for the 1992 season. I guess they were aesthetically not good looking.


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:09 am
Robbie wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:24 am Assuming your impressions and memories of Joe Kapp were good given the fact that he led the Lions to their first Grey Cup in 1964, then were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games?
Joe Kapp was my first childhood sports hero but two things tarnished his image for me.

1. His return as team president, GM and head coach, was marked by missteps on and off the field. One of the biggest for me was Kapp's role in the introduction of silver as the Lions' secondary uniform colour in 1990. I didn't mind the return to black home jerseys but I'm a traditionalist. The silver helmets and pants made them look too much like the Raiders of the NFL.

2. Kapp's on-stage fight with Angelo Mosca at a 2011 Grey Cup event was embarrassing, and further tarnished his legacy.
Willie and Joe. My first local sports heroes.

There are suggestions that Joe has Alzheimer's now. That would not be a surprise, as he played a very physical game. He even told stories of taking a big hit, and then mixing up plays in the huddle from his previous teams. Joe's judgment at times can certainly be questioned.

The punchup with Mosca? LOL ... Two old guys, formerly tough guys, very much in character. Nothing to tarnish imo. It fit their narrative. As a Willie Fleming fan, I kind of liked it. Payback, decades later to the "evil" Angelo Mosca. Ha ha Not sure they could really hurt each other with punches, although Mosca's cane looked dangerous.

As a GM here, Joe was a dud. As coach of U Cal, they had their moments, as with "The Play."



Just IMO ...


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Kapp was tough as they come. He knocked out a linebacker in the NFL when he ran over him rather than stepping out of bounds.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Robbie I was only 1 when Kapp won the Grey Cup, so I have no memories at all of him as a player. Never saw him play with the Lions or Vikings, so nothing to be tarnished in my memory. But he was a terrible GM, hired a terrible coach and trading Dunnigan was a mistake. Better to just recruit new players then trade your best player who went on to win a Cup for the Argos where the Lions went downhill. The trade was terrible for only one player played here longer than 1 year. Cannot remember what Kapp did to get him fired. Does anyone remember?

I have very faint memories of Dunnigan so cannot comment on him being exciting for honestly I just do not remember. My only clear memory is him throwing that interception in the Grey Cup in the end zone that lost the game for us.


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

JohnnyMusso wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 pm Robbie I was only 1 when Kapp won the Grey Cup, so I have no memories at all of him as a player. Never saw him play with the Lions or Vikings, so nothing to be tarnished in my memory. But he was a terrible GM, hired a terrible coach and trading Dunnigan was a mistake. Better to just recruit new players then trade your best player who went on to win a Cup for the Argos where the Lions went downhill.
But if there was anything good out of that, it's that Joe Kapp did bring in Doug Flutie. There was no need for another starting QB controversy. At the start of the 1990 season, five players competed for the starting QB job:

Rick Johnson (received from the Dunigan trade, but retired so was a wasted trade)
Major Harris
Rickey Foggie
Joe Paopao
Doug Flutie
JohnnyMusso wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 pm The trade was terrible for only one player played here longer than 1 year. Cannot remember what Kapp did to get him fired. Does anyone remember?
The entire mismanagement by the team and then owner Murray Pezim felt it was a need for an immediate change. Lary Kuharich left first, and a week later Joe Kapp. Jim Young and Bob O'Billovich were hired to manage the team.
JohnnyMusso wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:46 pm I have very faint memories of Dunnigan so cannot comment on him being exciting for honestly I just do not remember. My only clear memory is him throwing that interception in the Grey Cup in the end zone that lost the game for us.
It wasn't in the end zone but just outside of it around the 2-yard line.

----------------------------

One of the earliest games played by Lulay on October 18, 2009 taken by a fan in Winnpeg. Lulay scrambled for a crucial first down and run out the clock and secure a 24-21 win.



祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

The question of this post is who was your favorite retired B.C. Lion quarterback quarterback and not the best B.C. Lion quarterback.


In answering the question in terms of my 'favorite' retired Leos quarterback, from the list provided is:

1. Joe Kapp


Runner Up: Doug Flutie


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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

Blitz wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:45 pm The question of this post is who was your favorite retired B.C. Lion quarterback quarterback and not the best B.C. Lion quarterback.
Yes, that's correct. I was asking everyone's personal and biased opinion on favourite Lions quarterback. :good:
Blitz wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 3:45 pm In answering the question in terms of my 'favorite' retired Leos quarterback, from the list provided is:

1. Joe Kapp
I know I already asked this twice already but I'll ask you now, Blitz, now that you've indicated that he is your favourite BC Lions quarterbacks.

Just wondering, were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games? And that scuffle with Angelo Mosca didn't look good at all.

If not, then I suppose it's because you separate him as Joe Kapp the player vs. Joe Kapp the staff member. Unlike say, a more apples to apples comparison in that most Lions fans who had positive memories of Casey Printers after his first stint as a Lion all disappeared after his second stint.

At the risk of digress (yes, I stated above not to move too away from this topic) I wonder when it comes to celebrities that you like, will that change at all if they get into trouble with the law. As a great example, most people loved comedian and actor Bill Cosby especially in the 1980's. If you love him as well, will that change at all after he was was found guilty of three counts aggravated indecent assault and sentenced to prison and declared a sex offender?

Anyways, getting back on track, Blitz. You ranked Joe Kapp as #1 and Doug Flutie #2. How would you rank Travis Lulay?


祝加拿大加式足球聯賽不列颠哥伦比亚卑詩雄獅隊今年贏格雷杯冠軍。此外祝溫哥華加人隊贏總統獎座·卡雲斯·甘保杯·史丹利盃。還每年祝溫哥華白頭浪隊贏美國足球大联盟杯。不要忘記每年祝溫哥華巨人贏西部冰球聯盟冠軍。
改建後的卑詩體育館於二十十一年九月三十日重新對外開放,首場體育活動為同日舉行的加拿大足球聯賽賽事,由主場的卑詩雄獅隊以三十三比二十四擊敗愛民頓愛斯基摩人隊。
祝你老鼠年行大運。
恭喜西雅图海鹰直到第四十八屆超級盃最終四十三比八大勝曾拿下兩次超級盃冠軍的丹佛野馬拿下隊史第一個超級盃冠軍。
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Re: Now Lulay retired - who is your favourite BC Lions Quarterback ever?

I know I already asked this twice already but I'll ask you now, Blitz, now that you've indicated that he is your favourite BC Lions quarterbacks.

Just wondering, were your views and memories of Joe Kapp tarnished and degraded in any way when he returned to the Lions as General Manager in 1990, but didn't managed the team all that well and was fired after 11 games? And that scuffle with Angelo Mosca didn't look good at all.

If not, then I suppose it's because you separate him as Joe Kapp the player vs. Joe Kapp the staff member. Unlike say, a more apples to apples comparison in that most Lions fans who had positive memories of Casey Printers after his first stint as a Lion all disappeared after his second stint.

Anyways, getting back on track, Blitz. You ranked Joe Kapp as #1 and Doug Flutie #2. How would you rank Travis Lulay?
Well I apologize Robbie in that its been a long time (2019) since you asked me this question. As I posted on Lionbackers, the question was Who is Your Favorite Leos Quarterback and not Who Do You Think Is the Best Leos quarterback.

Joe Kapp was my favorite Leo quarterback for a lot of reasons - leadership, courage, passion etc. Plus Kapp played with Fleming, Swift, Morris, Sony Homer, Pat Claridge, Burton, Hinton, Cotter, Schwertfeger, Sugarman Frank, Lonniie Dennis. He was a favorite quarterback during a favorite time of mine for CFL football.

Kapp is the only player to play quarterback in the Super Bowl, Rose Bowl, and the Grey Cup.

No, Kapp's role as GM nor the Mosca incident did not diminish my view of Kapp as a football player. He also played some incredible football for the Vikings, where he was a treat to watch play too. Kapp, to me, did not have great talent but he had great heart and toughness. Don't forget that while Kapp had his chops busted for signing Gastineau, Kapp also signed Doug Flutie. I was disappointed in Kapp's behavior regarding the Mosca incident.

Doug Flutie was a favorite because he was such a treat to watch play and he was also an underdog who played with heart as well as talent.

Other favorite quarterbacks of mine have been Jerry Tagge, tough as nails both mentally and physically, and Casey Printers who was such an exciting qaurterback to watch in 2004 and 2005. Its amazing that Printers had 4 professional snaps before that 2004 MOP season. I was a Dunnigan and Jennings fan too.

Where does Travis Lulay stand on my list of favorite quarterbacks. I would rank Lulay #7 on my list of favorite Lion quarterbacks. I've always had a penchant for quarterbacks who can pass and run - Tagge is the exception to my list.

Who is the best Leo quarterback ever? I don't think its easy to answer that question. Different eras, surrounded by different talent, length of career in a Leos uniform, playoff performances make it a very challenging question.

I will say this. I believe that our Leos have had many more championship calibre quarterbacks than they have won championships. That has made some disappointing seasons much more bearable.


"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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