TiCats 40 - Lions 10, Post-Game Stats and Comments

[Toppy Vann]

Matt Baker's comments on the logo dancing while well intentioned miss the point. TSN 1040 radio says an ex Lion says this logo dancing is a tradition.

To suggest that coaching staff shouldn't be aware of what players are doing in other stadiums is one thing but what kind of team leaders are this stupid to do this.

Another point. If your players are getting their asses handed to them and they're yapping at the other team, where are your coaches who should be saying STFU and play!!!!

[Blitz]

Wally said he was on TSN at the time our Leos did their dance on the Hamilton logo.

The TSN interview would have been requested but Buono could have asked for it to wait until the end of practice or should have had at least one of his coaches present before the players ended practice and had left the field. This is very laissez fair stuff.

A Head Coach has to deal with the press and media as part of his job. But there is never an interview that Wally will ever turn down or delay. He is a real media and press hound, even though its portrayed as being media accessible.

That's because he is always trying to sell his Kool Aid and pull everyone down into his rabbit hole, where nothing is real or selling the "legend" of Buono.

If he had spent more time making trades and acquiring players as GM, he might have at least done 1/4 of the job that Hervey is doing this season. But Buono rarely traded and not one of his 2017 free agents did anything for us.

“We were out there dancing on their logo and I understand,” said Lumbala, who last season was told before a game by Buono to work up some emotion for his teammates because the coach admitted they had stopped listening. “It’s a city that has a lot of pride and when you do that to any team they’ll take offence.” 3 Down Nation

Thankfully, the 'Buono Farewell Tour' is almost over. I can't wait to bid him farewell at the end of this season but don't be surprised if he comes back again - just out of 'loyalty to Braley', and 'for B.C Lions fans' and also to 'give Ed Hervey the best Head Coach he could ever have', once again.

Again, like I stated in my reply to David: The TSN sitdown is an obligation. Part of the broadcast agreement. Pretty cut and dry. In fact, when we do go to the other team's stadium on the road, its the exact same type of deal as it was on Friday.

Wally will go first, and the on field stuff typically goes on without much or any supervision from him. The coordinators and position coaches take charge of their respective groups. The entire on-field activity lasts about 15-20 minutes. Off the top of my head, we have only gone to the stadium the day before on three of seven road trips so far. And it's been the same every time.

Complaining about Wally not being there really is a useless angle. Reminds me of the Tortorella year with Canucks when this fake outrage started about him not being at morning skates. So what? He showed up, did his media obligations, let the assistants do the on-ice stuff. Pretty common practice.

Perhaps you're right Matt, that Wally should not have to be there. But he could have been there. I also appreciate the difficult role you have right now.

Wally can set a TSN interview time or set it back 15 minutes. But say, he didn't feel the need to do that. It makes sense to me to have one of the Lions staff present until the players have left the field.

I've coached adults and I would always either be present or have an assistant coach present, while at another teams facility. Why not have someone assigned for that role until the players have left the field.

All kinds of antics can go on at the end of a practice....even with men in their 20's (and even older). I've been there and even been part of it on at least one occasion. A large group of men, especially on a sports team, can get into all kinds of antics that they wouldn't ordinarily get into in any other situation. Even happens with senior hockey teams on occasion.

Perhaps that was a careful approach on my part, but it just made sense to me, as | was the person most accountable for my team.

Regardless, Matt, Wally has always had a player leadership group and its his job to ensure the leaders know his expectations for that role.

Dancing on another teams logo, even if our Leos did it in the past without issues, and even if the controversy over it was incited, its not smart.

Logos, like flags, crests, etc, are representative and should be respected. Once Hamilton players found out about it, they were very unhappy about it as they should have been, interpreting it as a sign of disrespect, even if it wasn't meant in that way. Its how I would have interpreted it if another team did the same to us and I saw a video of it.

Wally is a very veteran coach. He must have known that his team did this in the past and common sense would dictate it could have potential repurcussions (and final did). Why did he not have it stopped in the past?

Whether Wally was in a TSN interview or not, his theme for the rest of this season is ACCOUNTABILITY.

Even if that was not the theme, he is ultimately accountable for his team in every aspect, including their after practice behaviors, and does not get a free pass because he was being interviewed.

If you want to be a leader, or are the leader, that goes with the territory.

[Matt Baker]

Wally said he was on TSN at the time our Leos did their dance on the Hamilton logo.

The TSN interview would have been requested but Buono could have asked for it to wait until the end of practice or should have had at least one of his coaches present before the players ended practice and had left the field. This is very laissez fair stuff.

A Head Coach has to deal with the press and media as part of his job. But there is never an interview that Wally will ever turn down or delay. He is a real media and press hound, even though its portrayed as being media accessible.

That's because he is always trying to sell his Kool Aid and pull everyone down into his rabbit hole, where nothing is real or selling the "legend" of Buono.

If he had spent more time making trades and acquiring players as GM, he might have at least done 1/4 of the job that Hervey is doing this season. But Buono rarely traded and not one of his 2017 free agents did anything for us.

Thankfully, the 'Buono Farewell Tour' is almost over. I can't wait to bid him farewell at the end of this season but don't be surprised if he comes back again - just out of 'loyalty to Braley', and 'for B.C Lions fans' and also to 'give Ed Hervey the best Head Coach he could ever have', once again.

Again, like I stated in my reply to David: The TSN sitdown is an obligation. Part of the broadcast agreement. Pretty cut and dry. In fact, when we do go to the other team's stadium on the road, its the exact same type of deal as it was on Friday.

Wally will go first, and the on field stuff typically goes on without much or any supervision from him. The coordinators and position coaches take charge of their respective groups. The entire on-field activity lasts about 15-20 minutes. Off the top of my head, we have only gone to the stadium the day before on three of seven road trips so far. And it's been the same every time.

Complaining about Wally not being there really is a useless angle. Reminds me of the Tortorella year with Canucks when this fake outrage started about him not being at morning skates. So what? He showed up, did his media obligations, let the assistants do the on-ice stuff. Pretty common practice.

Perhaps you're right Matt, that Wally should not have to be there. But he could have been there. I also appreciate the difficult role you have right now.

Wally can set a TSN interview time or set it back 15 minutes. But say, he didn't feel the need to do that. It makes sense to me to have one of the Lions staff present until the players have left the field.

I've coached adults and I would always either be present or have an assistant coach present, while at another teams facility. Why not have someone assigned for that role until the players have left the field.

All kinds of antics can go on at the end of a practice....even with men in their 20's (and even older). I've been there and even been part of it on at least one occasion. A large group of men, especially on a sports team, can get into all kinds of antics that they wouldn't ordinarily get into in any other situation. Even happens with senior hockey teams on occasion.

Perhaps that was a careful approach on my part, but it just made sense to me, as | was the person most accountable for my team.

Regardless, Matt, Wally has always had a player leadership group and its his job to ensure the leaders know his expectations for that role.

Dancing on another teams logo, even if our Leos did it in the past without issues, and even if the controversy over it was incited, its not smart.

Logos, like flags, crests, etc, are representative and should be respected. Once Hamilton players found out about it, they were very unhappy about it as they should have been, interpreting it as a sign of disrespect, even if it wasn't meant in that way. Its how I would have interpreted it if another team did the same to us and I saw a video of it.

Wally is a very veteran coach. He must have known that his team did this in the past and common sense would dictate it could have potential repurcussions (and final did). Why did he not have it stopped in the past?

Whether Wally was in a TSN interview or not, his theme for the rest of this season is ACCOUNTABILITY.

Even if that was not the theme, he is ultimately accountable for his team in every aspect, including their after practice behaviors, and does not get a free pass because he was being interviewed. If you want to be a leader, or are the leader, that goes with the territory.

My point stands. Three years doing this job, having been on every road trip in that span, it's the exact same routine every time. So we're talking one incident like this over the course of what, 26 road games?

They got smoked in Edmonton and Winnipeg this season too. Without violating any sacred "logo code." Again, if Ticats used it as motivation, God Bless them. But if that's what it takes to fire them up? Probably not a championship-calibre football team.

[Blitz]

My point stands. Three years doing this job, having been on every road trip in that span, it's the exact same routine every time. So we're talking one incident like this over the course of what, 26 road games?

They got smoked in Edmonton and Winnipeg this season too. Without violating any sacred "logo code." Again, if Ticats used it as motivation, God Bless them. But if that's what it takes to fire them up? Probably not a championship-calibre football team.

Matt Baker, B.C. Lions

My point still stands too Matt. Just because you have done something in the past that was not wise does not excuse it. I don't believe Hamilton needed it for motivation. They would likely have been very motivated anyway, after a tough loss in Vancouver.

I think you took an unnecessary shot at the Tiger Cats 'not being a championship-caliber team if that is what it takes to motivate them'. As I just wrote above, I believe Hamilton was a very motivated anyway, as our Leos would have been, after coming off a tough loss.

Brandon Banks was not wide open in the end zone twice due to the logo incident nor were 2 of the 3 Hamilton interceptions due to extra motivation. Banks found holes where Hamilton knew there would be holes in our defense and the two Pick 6 touchdown interceptions were smart, well scouted plays that Hamilton's safety 'jumped'.

He almost had a third one of the same play, only this time thrown by Fajardo.

Hamilton's coaching staff also appeared to be very motivated too.

All the logo thing did was give them some extra motivation and bring out some pride in their team emblem and city.

If the situation was reversed, I would be hoping our Leos players would react in the same way as the Hamilton players did and I believe they would have, reflecting pride in their team, their city, and their province.

Hamilton won this game because they were more inspired to win and because they were more prepared to win, logo incident or not.

But still, the logo stuff was not wise in the past nor on Friday in Hamilton, even if there was no disrespectful intent. We should have considered that it could be interpreted differently. The logo incident could have happened at an earlier date, if other teams had learned about it.

I'm relieved it will no longer happen on opposition team's logos on their home field in the future. I certainly hope Wally is shutting it down in the future, because its the wrong thing to do, rather than because it created a reaction.

We can do those dances on our own field, on our own logo, in the future, should we choose to.

[BC 1988]

But still, the logo stuff was not wise in the past nor on Friday in Hamilton, even if there was no disrespectful intent. We should have considered that it could be interpreted differently.

I'm relieved it will no longer happen on opposition team's logos on their home field in the future. We can do those dances on our own field, on our own logo, in the future, should we choose to.

I agree completely that it's foolish to continue to allow the logo dancing. In this age of social media there is no such thing as privacy with regard to team "traditions".

btw, BC players can't dance on their own logo because the Whitecaps don't let the club put it (or anything other than field markings) on the turf.

[Matt Baker]

My point stands. Three years doing this job, having been on every road trip in that span, it's the exact same routine every time. So we're talking one incident like this over the course of what, 26 road games?

They got smoked in Edmonton and Winnipeg this season too. Without violating any sacred "logo code." Again, if Ticats used it as motivation, God Bless them. But if that's what it takes to fire them up? Probably not a championship-calibre football team.

Matt Baker, B.C. Lions

My point still stands too Matt. Just because you have done something in the past that was not wise does not excuse it. I don't believe Hamilton needed it for motivation. They would likely have been very motivated anyway, after a tough loss in Vancouver.

I think you took an unnecessary shot at the Tiger Cats 'not being a championship-caliber team if that is what it takes to motivate them'. As I just wrote above, I believe Hamilton was a very motivated anyway, as our Leos would have been, after coming off a tough loss.

Brandon Banks was not wide open in the end zone twice due to the logo incident nor were 2 of the 3 Hamilton interceptions due to extra motivation. Banks found holes where Hamilton knew there would be holes in our defense and the two Pick 6 touchdown interceptions were smart, well scouted plays that Hamilton's safety 'jumped'.

He almost had a third one of the same play, only this time thrown by Fajardo.

Hamilton's coaching staff also appeared to be very motivated too.

All the logo thing did was give them some extra motivation and bring out some pride in their team emblem and city.

If the situation was reversed, I would be hoping our Leos players would react in the same way as the Hamilton players did and I believe they would have, reflecting pride in their team, their city, and their province.

Hamilton won this game because they were more inspired to win and because they were more prepared to win, logo incident or not.

But still, the logo stuff was not wise in the past nor on Friday in Hamilton, even if there was no disrespectful intent. We should have considered that it could be interpreted differently. The logo incident could have happened at an earlier date, if other teams had learned about it.

I'm relieved it will no longer happen on opposition team's logos on their home field in the future. I certainly hope Wally is shutting it down in the future, because its the wrong thing to do, rather than because it created a reaction.

We can do those dances on our own field, on our own logo, in the future, should we choose to.

It was actually pretty refreshing to hear June Jones claim he had no idea that it had occurred when of course, he was asked about it in his post-game press conference.

So yeah, like we've both said here, they should have approached that game angry anyway, based on how it ended for them the week prior.

At any rate, should we go back there in November it should make for some decent headlines.

[Lion Guy]

Got smacked on twitter a bit for suggesting Wally needs to hang them up.

2 things can be true; he's a legend, a great coach...maybe the best ever, a great community guy and wonderful family man

AND....it's time to leave because this team needs new coaching blood.

I'm a paying customer attending games since 1963. I've earned my opinion.

[Blitz]

Got smacked on twitter a bit for suggesting Wally needs to hang them up.

2 things can be true; he's a legend, a great coach...maybe the best ever, a great community guy and wonderful family man

AND....it's time to leave because this team needs new coaching blood.

I'm a paying customer attending games since 1963. I've earned my opinion.

Who smacked you on Twitter Lion Guy? Was it other Leo fans or someone else?

I'm with you that this team truly needs new coaching blood, badly. But since 2007, we've had a couple of seasons under Wally (2011, 2016) where our talent was able to overcome (other than the WDF in 2016) so I won't give up on our players. (I actually never do)

We still have a chance for the cross-over.

The team that makes that cross-over playoff spot, I believe has a great chance to be in the Grey Cup this year.

It hasn't happened before (the Riders were very close last year) but both the Bombers and our Leos both have the players to do it this season (and especially our Leos) .

All we need to do is not restrict them. We don't even need good coaching. All we need is to not have bad coaching.

[Blitz]

Matt Baker wrote:

My point stands. Three years doing this job, having been on every road trip in that span, it's the exact same routine every time. So we're talking one incident like this over the course of what, 26 road games?

They got smoked in Edmonton and Winnipeg this season too. Without violating any sacred "logo code." Again, if Ticats used it as motivation, God Bless them. But if that's what it takes to fire them up? Probably not a championship-calibre football team.

Matt Baker, B.C. Lions

Blitz wrote:

My point still stands too Matt. Just because you have done something in the past that was not wise does not excuse it. I don't believe Hamilton needed it for motivation. They would likely have been very motivated anyway, after a tough loss in Vancouver.

I think you took an unnecessary shot at the Tiger Cats 'not being a championship-caliber team if that is what it takes to motivate them'. As I just wrote above, I believe Hamilton was a very motivated anyway, as our Leos would have been, after coming off a tough loss.

Brandon Banks was not wide open in the end zone twice due to the logo incident nor were 2 of the 3 Hamilton interceptions due to extra motivation. Banks found holes where Hamilton knew there would be holes in our defense and the two Pick 6 touchdown interceptions were smart, well scouted plays that Hamilton's safety 'jumped'.

He almost had a third one of the same play, only this time thrown by Fajardo.

Hamilton's coaching staff also appeared to be very motivated too.

All the logo thing did was give them some extra motivation and bring out some pride in their team emblem and city.

If the situation was reversed, I would be hoping our Leos players would react in the same way as the Hamilton players did and I believe they would have, reflecting pride in their team, their city, and their province.

Hamilton won this game because they were more inspired to win and because they were more prepared to win, logo incident or not.

But still, the logo stuff was not wise in the past nor on Friday in Hamilton, even if there was no disrespectful intent. We should have considered that it could be interpreted differently. The logo incident could have happened at an earlier date, if other teams had learned about it.

I'm relieved it will no longer happen on opposition team's logos on their home field in the future. I certainly hope Wally is shutting it down in the future, because its the wrong thing to do, rather than because it created a reaction.

We can do those dances on our own field, on our own logo, in the future, should we choose to.

Matt Baker wrote:

It was actually pretty refreshing to hear June Jones claim he had no idea that it had occurred when of course, he was asked about it in his post-game press conference.

So yeah, like we've both said here, they should have approached that game angry anyway, based on how it ended for them the week prior.

At any rate, should we go back there in November it should make for some decent headlines.

Blitz wrote:

Matt, I don't know if you are posting on here, as a fellow Lionbacker or you are posting on here in your role as a B.C. Lions employee, representing Wally or the Leos in an official role.

It would be good to know, because my responses would be different, in some ways, based upon that.

Regardless, you are obviously very loyal and also a very proud Leo. Hamilton demonstrated their sense of pride and so have you afterwards.

You weren't in a good position to do so (based upon what happened) but you have fought the good fight for your team. I respect that. This whole thing was about respect. Its an important word.

[Lion Guy]

Lion Guy wrote:

Got smacked on twitter a bit for suggesting Wally needs to hang them up.

2 things can be true; he's a legend, a great coach...maybe the best ever, a great community guy and wonderful family man

AND....it's time to leave because this team needs new coaching blood.

I'm a paying customer attending games since 1963. I've earned my opinion.

Blitz wrote:

Who smacked you on Twitter Lion Guy? Was it other Leo fans or someone else?

This team truly needs new coaching blood, badly. But since 2007, we've had a couple of seasons under Wally (2011, 2016) where our talent was able to overcome (other than the WDF in 2016)

We still have a chance for the cross-over.

The team that makes that cross-over playoff spot, I believe has a great chance to be in the Grey Cup this year.

It hasn't happened before (the Riders were very close last year) but both the Bombers and our Leos both have the players to do it this season (and especially our Leos.

All we need to do is not restrict them. We don't even need good coaching. All we need is to not have bad coaching. --

Lion Guy wrote:

Buono' daughter (understandably defending dad) amongst others. Baker tossed in a "like" or 2 as well.

Typical attack the messenger, ignore the message.

That's fine as long as Buono, Washington, Dorazio, Jackson et al are shown the door after the final game. -- Lion Guy

We need new schemes, a new mindset, a new attitude. Dinosaurs don't possess that type of thinking.

Lion Guy, I just asked Matt Baker if he was posting as a fellow Lionbacker, on this topic, or if he was representing Wally or his team as an employee.

You just posted that Matt was putting a 'like' to you getting smacked for your views on our coaching staff. Matt should not be doing that. He should be considering his role as a Leos employee, when engaging with the public, even if he is acting as an individual at the time.

Whether you or I or other Lionbackers are right or wrong about our opinions of our coaching staff, its only an alternative view.

Wally has had access to the media and press and the Lions website for years and years to get his messages across. His reputation that preceded him also gave much credence to his messages.

Those messages have repeatedly and repeatedly and repeatedly deflected from his own accountability while scapegoating the players individual players, and in some cases, his coordinators.

(read my Survival Guide for New Leo Fans, for more of an in-depth look at how powerful and impactful Wally's media and press messages have been)

As long-time and die hard Lions fans, who don't have any access to the media or press, nor the incredible stature that Wally has, when he says something, should not be attacked for our views in an attempt to shut them down. That would not be a healthy situation.

Its one thing to be a Wally supporter - those who are, have more than a right to their opinion and to also argue why they believe what they do, in terms of their support for Wally.

But to attack a fellow Leo fan, rather than just focus on why they have their opinion is very wrong and to use a word of yours, it 'smacks' of an atttempt to harass, intimidate, denigrate, etc. a fellow Leo fan in order to censor and eliminate a message they don't want to have out there.

As you said, its shoot the messanger to stop the message. But there are too many Leo fans now that are stating the same message and they can't shoot all of them now.

They need a different tactic and a different approach. A more accountable approach would be the wisest one.

[Toppy Vann]

As TSN 1040 says, this dancing on the other team's logo is a tradition.

It should be ended.

I know that this is new young generation of players but today it was refreshing to see Tre Mason RB for the Riders make a brilliant run into the end zone and simply leave the ball on the turf leading TSN to suggest something like he plans to do it again. As momma used to say, 'when you score, act like you've dunnit before.'

[DanoT]

I don't care about logo dancing, who is responsible, players, coaches or whatever.

I do care that Lions don't run the ball or move the pocket enough and that is on the coaches.

[Lion Guy]

Thx Blitz. I hold no ill will towards Buono, his coaches, Lions staff or his daughter.

But my point that he needs to fade away remains. And it's been years too late. 2011 was a great way to end. What he did to Benevides never sat well with me and his hiring of Coordinatos leaves a lot to be desired. We are the worst coached team in the league and we have been for years.

[Lion Guy]

I don't care about logo dancing, who is responsible, players, coaches or whatever.

I do care that Lions don't run the ball or move the pocket enough and that is on the coaches.

Nor I. What I care about is game planning, being ready to play, motivation, in game adjustments etc.

We have none of that.

[B.C.FAN]

I don't think rookies dancing in the walkthrough was a factor in the outcome. The Lions came out flying on the opening kickoff and pinned the Ticats deep. The defence just couldn't stop the Hamilton offence, and the Hamilton defence was ready for everything the B.C. offence tried. The Lions were just outcoached. A few key drops by the offence and defence just made the score worse than it should have been.