TiCats 40 - Lions 10, Post-Game Stats and Comments

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Gridiron Ernie
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Here's some obviously frustrated (and mighty frustrating!) quotes from Lions players & the head coach quoted in LU's tonight's-posted article at 3DownNation:

“We just didn’t come to play,” said Jon Jennings.

“They came out with a different energy,” said Bryan Burnham.

“We should have bought more intensity, more aggressiveness and better focus. We just didn’t show up,” said Rolly Lumbala.

Which, of course, begs the question as to why they didn’t show up.

There have been many common threads which have been sewn during the 16 seasons in which Wally Buono has had at least one hand on the tiller but among them has been a chronic inability at times to get his teams ready to play. Buono has often said it is up to his players to be ready to play an emotional game but more than once has seen what happens when his team’s collective mindset is missing.

This time at least, it was a point Buono was willing to concede.

“I didn’t do a good enough job getting the guys prepared for this kind of game. We talked about it all week about the physicality but obviously the message didn’t get there,” Buono said."
-- LU

I wondered aloud about them logo-dancing (in an earlier post) -- concluding they just might be pea-brained. When I read comments/quotes like this, though it's rude to say, I feel it confirms it. Those are some of my favourite players. And alongside Lulay, Burnham is my favourite character/personality-wise. Love many of these guys. But surely there's something more insightful to say than this! And that includes the coach saying "we talked about it all week about the physicality". That was the focus? Physicality? If that's all there was to offer as prep and insight... Yikes.
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Toppy Vann
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JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:30 pm
Read tonight, Buono was doing a TSN interview yesterday and had no idea his players danced on the logo. He said he probably would never have let them do it. He also said if that was the difference then his players will never dance again.
Lowell or Chris Burns were told by an ex BC Lion it's a tradition to do it in other cities...
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
LadnerLion
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The logo thing didn't matter until the league account tweeted it out with a provocative caption. If people saw the video without that context, they wouldn't have cared. The CFL league Twitter decided to make a controversy out of it, and it worked. It's hardly the thing to focus on as lions fans. It was manufactured beef, pretty bush league honestly. The players clearly didn't mean anything by it, and I think everyone knows that. The CFL just needed a story. In fact, during the game on Friday, Matt Dunigan said "they're making us talk about this." Completely artificial, and not at all a reflection on poor judgment or character of lions players.

3downnation explained it well Friday: http://3downnation.com/2018/09/28/cfl-s ... eef-teams/
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WestCoastJoe
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Toppy Vann wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:24 am
JohnnyMusso wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:30 pm
Read tonight, Buono was doing a TSN interview yesterday and had no idea his players danced on the logo. He said he probably would never have let them do it. He also said if that was the difference then his players will never dance again.
Lowell or Chris Burns were told by an ex BC Lion it's a tradition to do it in other cities...
I first heard of a team showing great respect for its own logo or jersey with the Oilers and Gretzky. A rookie dropped the jersey on the dressing room floor and got ripped for it.

Would the TiCats have gone ballistic if they were on the field when it happened? I think so.

I think it was in 2000 when Terrell Owens scored a TD for the 49ers, and ran to the Cowboys logo to celebrate. He got decked.

I think the teams want their logos to be respected. We saw the reaction of the TiCats team and its fans.

Was it the wrong thing to do, dancing on the logo? If it was the wrong thing, who is responsible? No coaching staff on the field? Was the dancing condoned by the staff? Blame the team captains? Never discussed as part of team protocol? No policy on it? It obviously caused bad blood. There were confrontations pregame, during the game, and after the game, by the bus. I don't think it will happen again.

Embarrassing loss. Well, blame it on the dancing. Bench those backups. Don't you guys ever dance like that again. LOL

As flat as we were, it seems to me we would have lost even if we had not danced. Did it help the TiCats focus? Probably. Would they have thumped us anyway? Probably. I don't think we should over-focus on the dancing, even as inappropriate as it was. We were completely unprepared in our game plan, our motivation and our focus. We were still enjoying the unlikely win from the previous week.

Like Don Miller said, I too have been a fan of the Lions since Randy Duncan and Willie Fleming showed up. As neighbourhood kids, we used to go to watch at the field behind Empire Stadium, where they practiced in the evening. Times are tough now.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

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David wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:41 pm
Honestly, the coaches should be made to run gassers this week while the players watch. That, I would pay to watch.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think the players danced on the logo in a premeditated act to incite. To me, it was much ado about nothing. Apparently, it's something they make the rookies do every year. I think they had just gathered at centre field and it broke out. The logo just happened to be there. It's not like they were maliciously "stomping" on it. But if they knew it was going to piss off their opponent, they should have raised their game instead of coming out flat.

And why isn't anyone blaming the Lions' media personnel? The video didn't get filmed and uploaded by the players, I can assure you that. The problem is these days, teams are too busy looking for "viral moments" that common sense gets in the way. Buono didn't know? Why am I not surprised. :roll:


DH :cool:
If you listen to Wally's comments: he didn't know, because at the time he was upstairs doing TSN sitdown interview. A requirement for every team at walkthrough day. In our case, done at the stadium as we elected to go there for a full walkthrough because we flew in two days early. Responsibility, in this case, would lie with the team captains.

Now, as far as capturing it when it happens. Yes, as we've seen these are the types of things that go "viral" and get the most reaction. It was not mine or the club's intention to disrespect the Tiger-Cats. Myself, I never really even clued into the fact they were on the logo until some Ticat fans took exception to it. The CFL's twitter folks, who I genuinely like and get along with, didn't help our cause by trying to start a war after the fact. Then TSN picks up on it and all hell breaks loose. The Ticats say all the right things about how it "fired them up" and served as "motivation." But talking to guys who played this game: if that's what you need to motivate you, you are in the wrong profession.

Simply put: we aren't doing our jobs if we don;'t capture moments like that. Not asking you guys to believe me one way or the other, but I was there up close. Dis-respecting the Ticats was not the intention. It was initiating the rookies by making them dance. The logo, as sacred as it may be, is right there in the middle of the field. Not the first time this has been done and certainly won't be the last.
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Lion Guy wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:08 pm
TheLionKing wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:39 pm
Blitz wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 9:30 pm
Wally, post- game (He did a lot of Cheshire Cat smiling and quickly pointed out he was happy with our cover teams)

In terms of preparation:

"I don't believe our preparation was poor. There was nothing that Hamilton did that we didn't expect or practice. They made plays, we didn't".

(In other words, their players played better than our players, which is why we lost and coaching had nothing to do with the game. Same old Kool Aid)

In terms of the loss:

"Well, you know what? Guys, you're going to go through one of these games every year".

(Basically dismissing the loss, rather than being ACCOUNTABLE nor saying what he was going to do to fix it - cause he doesn't know how to fix things...he said he didn't have any ideas over a month ago and that if he did have ideas he would be implementing them). The Emperor has no clothes.
Give us a break Buono. Do you actually believe the crap you're spewing ?
Careful now or his daughter will get angry at you.
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I've been waiting for the attacks.

They seem to be lying in the weeds again Lion Guy. I think they were waitng patiently until we made a longer win streak or made the playoffs.

But attacking me is not going to change things because I am certainly not alone in my views on Lionbackers.

Thankfully there are Lionbackers like you and many others who post in a manner that clearly see the reality of things, don't drink the many well developed flavors of Kool Aid, and don't get sucked down Wally's 'rabbit hole', where nothing is real.

Certainly our sports press and sports media are not doing that. Almost all, have always bought the Kool Aid or chosen too, because its easier.

For example (and just another example that has gone on for years, in terms of football reporting here in B.C. with the exception of a couple of reporters) , just this week J.J. Adams of the Province was writing the problem with our very poor results on second and short was a tailback problem, which is why we needed to bring in Sutton.

But heaven help me (or maybe even you, and others) if our Leos qualify and then go on to win a playoff game or two or even the Grey Cup. But right now, and for way too long as well, Wally seems determined to sabotage our talent as well as Ed Hervey's work.

But then, who knows, he might just come back again next year, out of 'his loyalty, once again, to David Braley and Leos fans', of course. :)
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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Its hard to believe, but then again its not, that Wally said the coaches had prepared our Leos players for this contest

Hamilton marched the football 88 yds. on their first drive because our coaches had our defense 'well prepared'. White ran for 88 yds. alone in the first half against our 'prepared' defence. Brandon Banks was all alone in the end zone for two first half touchdowns against our 'prepared' defense.

Our defense gave up 24 points by themselves in the first half before Hamilton took its fingers off the trigger, likely bored with shooting us to death.

Hamilton's coaches had their players well prepared. They knew how and where they wanted to attack our defense and they were more than prepared for our predictable offence.

They got pressure and sacks with four, using a lot of end/tackle stunts, they had our receivers blanketed while jumping routes, they gave Burnham extra attention, and they shut down our tailbacks with ease, (the very few times we ran the football, once again) because there were no holes to run to.

The logo incident had the Tiger Cats extra motivated but a 30-3 half time score is more than just a high level of motivation, as Toppy noted.

Hamilton's coaches made Buono and Company look like inept rookie pee wee football coaches trying to take on the pros.

On offence, I watched two Hamilton interceptions where their defenders jumped our routes, knowing what we were going to do. The first was Unamba's interception. Jennings looked right, his first read was covered, he came back left and Unamba jumped Posey's route. Posey didn't keep fighting through his route, and a few seconds later, Unamba was in our end zone.

But even worse, was Daley jumping routes. He lined up deep at safety and as soon as the football was snapped, he was flying to a specific spot on the field, where he knew the football would be thrown. He picked off Jennings on the play but he almost had a potential Pick 6 on the same exact play, when Fajardo threw the same pass but, Daley dropped the potential interception.

Glanville was being congratulated on the sidelines for his acumen while Jennings was animated and looked pissed on our sidelines, while Lulay listened and seemed to be agreeing with whatever he was saying.

I don't know what they were saying but if it would have been me, I would have been saying the following:

"Why, for two games in a row, have we not ran the football, at least to begin with, against the worst run defense in the CFL and why have we tried to pass the football so much against one of the CFL's best pass defenses. Why can't Dorazio scheme our pass protection adequately against a defensive line that is missing 3 starters? (six sacks in this game).

If I was Lulay, I would also be saying:

"The same thing happened to me, as to you. In 2011, when I first became our starter, I threw 32 touchdowns to 11 interceptions and won the MOP. My touchdown to interception ratio has gotten worse each and every season. In 2012, it dropped to 27/19, then 19/11, then 12/10. In 2016, when you became the starter, it was 2/2 and last year it improved a little to 10/7 and this season its 5/4.

"In other words, I used to throw 3 touchdown passes for every interception and now its pretty close to even most seasons. I think I'm a smarter quarterback now, but our scheme becomes more predictable each and every season and our running game gets worse. I;ve been injured so many times in this bad scheme, I can't even count them anymore".

"Don't forget Jonathan, than in 2016, our offence led the league in rushing. Last season it dropped to 5th. This season its 8th. Its not just that our offence is predictable and therefore ineffective. It has no balance".

Wally can pass the Kool Aid that this type of loss happens every season but I'm not drinking it. During the week, Buono said we just have to focus on ourselves, once again. Other teams coaches scout the opposition and come up with game plans that take advantage.

This was a very important game in the race for a playoff spot. Our game planning for this game was so deficient, it was embarrassing.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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Wally said he was on TSN at the time our Leos did their dance on the Hamilton logo.

The TSN interview would have been requested but Buono could have asked for it to wait until the end of practice or should have had at least one of his coaches present before the players ended practice and had left the field. This is very laissez fair stuff.

A Head Coach has to deal with the press and media as part of his job. But there is never an interview that Wally will ever turn down or delay. He is a real media and press hound, even though its portrayed as being media accessible.

That's because he is always trying to sell his Kool Aid and pull everyone down into his rabbit hole, where nothing is real or selling the "legend" of Buono.

If he had spent more time making trades and acquiring players as GM, he might have at least done 1/4 of the job that Hervey is doing this season. But Buono rarely traded and not one of his 2017 free agents did anything for us.
“We were out there dancing on their logo and I understand,” said Lumbala, who last season was told before a game by Buono to work up some emotion for his teammates because the coach admitted they had stopped listening. “It’s a city that has a lot of pride and when you do that to any team they’ll take offence.” 3 Down Nation
Thankfully, the 'Buono Farewell Tour' is almost over. I can't wait to bid him farewell at the end of this season but don't be surprised if he comes back again - just out of 'loyalty to Braley', and 'for B.C Lions fans' and also to 'give Ed Hervey the best Head Coach he could ever have', once again.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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Looks like things continued after the game. Wally probably wasn't around because he was doing a TSN post-game interview about how well our coaching staff had 'prepared' our team but to no avail.
Players involved in altercation outside the stadium after Ticats-Lions game

September 29, 2018 by Justin Dunk

B.C. Lions and Hamilton Tiger-Cats players traded barbs and jabs out front of Tim Hortons Field after the game on Saturday night.

Emotions were still running high from the Ticats 40-10 beatdown of B.C.
According to sources, Simoni Lawrence was trash talking Lions receiver Shaq Johnson and that led to a physical altercation involving several members of each team.

Players from both teams generally leave the stadium the same way via gate three where the visitors’ buses are normally set up for boarding on Melrose Avenue. That’s where the altercation took place.

The day before the two squads played the back end of a home-and-home series, Lions fullback David Mackie performed a dance on the Ticat logo at centre field. A number of Ticats took exception to it including Lawrence and receiver Brandon Banks who were vocal during and after the game.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
Blitz
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Our Leos are back in last place in the West (we have a game in hand) as ex-Leos also played a role in our fate. But all the Bombers have to do is match our Leos in wins the rest of the way and they will qualify for the cross-over and not us.

But if we do qualify for the playoffs, our 20-17 win over the Bombers in Week 7 will have been huge. It was the first game that Travis Lulay took over as our starter from Jennings. We failed to score a point in the first half but scored 20 points in the second half of that game. Our defense gave up 17 first half points but shut the door on the Bombers in the second half.

Just like Jennings first start against Hamilton last week, from the backup role, this time it was Lulay becoming our starter from the backup role and leading us to fourth quarter heroics, with a late touchdown to Shaq Johnson before driving our offence for a winning field goal.

But over the next 5 games, Lulay could not replicate those heroics, as our offensive scheme bogged him down and we only won one more game with Lulay as our starting quarterback, when he was able to play for an entire game.

In Winnipeg, yesterday, ex-Leo Andrew Harris ran the football 20 times while also catching four passes. Harris did not have a good average per run this game but the Bombers got back to having Harris be the center piece of their offence.

Getting back to their running game for better balance, Nichols completed 80% of his passes. He only passed for 189 yds. but a more balanced offensive attack made a big difference for the Bombers.

Mike Reilley threw 3 interceptions (same as Jennings) for the Eskimos while playing at home. He only completed 54.8% of his passes for 164 yds. Guess he can't read a defense either. :thdn:

The Eskimos offence only scored 3 points as Jaason Maas' offence came up with another stinker. No quarterback can play well without a good scheme, game plan, and play calling, even Mike Reilly.

Mike Benevedes soft corner, passive zone defense, the defense he learned to use while being 'mentored up' by Wally Buono, also had its struggles, as it has all season as the worst defense in the West.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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DanoT
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That was painful to watch.

When the Oline is a sieve, why not move the pocket, roll out, run the ball? This is not a well prepared team especially on O.
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WestCoastJoe
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It seems to be very hard times right now.

The players have to dig deep, once again, even deeper than before.

Saddled with a moribund offensive scheme, porous pass blocking, a running game limited to 7 carries, it will be very tough for the players on offence to rally. Glanville tore our offence to shreds, jumping well-scouted, predictable routes all over the field. Davis Sanchez noted how our receivers do not get separation, and that is what we saw once again.

Our defence had the ball run down its throat in the 1st quarter. We are getting nothing from our safety. Schemed wrong and played poorly, it seems to me. Lost in the endzone, as Banks cuts by, wide open. Jones thoroughly out-coached Washington, neutralizing the pressure we saw for two games.

In the planning and meetings Wally must be getting the game plans he wants. And then it comes down, once again, to the players not executing the game plan. Well prepared? How did the opposing game plans stack up? Which team had better game plans?

I think we should start Fajardo. Too early for Lulay. Jarious Jackson looked to be in way over his head against the crafty, ancient Jerry Glanville. Going with RPO to start the year was such a naive, bad decision. Have we dumped it yet?
......

Was it OK to dance on the logo? Condoned? Not known ever in previous games? Not OK? Who was responsible? Who should have stopped it? Never discussed as protocol? OK within team policy? Not in team policy? No coach on the field during walk through? Players just walking around the playing field without a coaching plan, unsupervised? If it is stopped henceforth, it seems it was the wrong thing to do. Small thing, or a symptom of a disorganized mess?

There were altercations pregame, in game and post-game because of the logo dance. Not a big deal? Then why not do the dance every game henceforth? Get out there on the other team's logo and dance.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Rammer
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Last I'm going to say on the dance thing.

While it is tradition, it's probably not the best time to do so, on a back to back, after a win in the fashion that occurred. Given how the dance went viral, the coaching staff should have prepared the team to expect a highly motivated Ti-Cat team to come out on the field.

By the time the Lions realized that they weren't at the same intensity the game was out of hand.

In the end, it is on the coaches not having the team ready to match the intensity. When the Ti-Cats circled their logo for the coin toss, not allowing the Lions in to perform said coin toss, they should have pulled the team in and ramped up the teams intensity.

Their was a battle about to happen and the Lions werent prepared prior and certainly not as the game git under way.
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Toppy Vann
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Anyone who tries to spin the logo dancing display wasn't a major added motive to an already fired up football team angry at blowing the game in BC Place either is deluding themselves. Watching the TSN Sportscentre version of the dancing was painful.

To suggest that it was blown up and out of context is nuts.

It's great for marketing the game so why supply this when at walk through there are cameras and reporters there all looking for a story.

If it's a tradition for Lions to make rookies do that short of dance in other team's parks and the coaches don't know - wow - is all I can say.

Furthermore, from a leadership and team culture perspective these rookie initiations may seem like team and culture building but I side with coaches who believe the opposite. What it is is veterans imposing their version of a pecking order and develops sheep not leaders and contributors.

Coaches listen to the player talk during the week and Captains - if they have a shred of leadership in them - would never tolerate that level of stupidity. Watching the TSN Sportscentre version of the dancing was painful.

As Blitz et al notes, not running the ball (#24 - got 3 carries?) when your QB is not seeing daylight with receivers and is under pressure is ridiculous. Heard LU say Tyrell Sutton must be wondering what he's getting into with BC given how few run attempts they're making and how bad run blocking is. But then again Dan Dorazio says it's hard to teach run blocking to pro football players.

Was it LU who said that Jeremiah Johnson has to be pissed as the GM is looking to replace him and 3 carries sends a message. Strange if shades of any of this is true.

Lions fans call in post game were pretty much all negative.

I've been only to 2 Lions games in other parks in the Wally era (Wpg and Cal) and both were butt kickings and the team didn't look ready.

As a coach I never ever spoke or responded to an opposing player ever other than to say when someone was mouthy at me - Look at the scoreboard. Those yappers in the game in orange were stupid and there's too much of that.
"Ability without character will lose." - Marv Levy
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Blitz wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:29 am
Wally said he was on TSN at the time our Leos did their dance on the Hamilton logo.

The TSN interview would have been requested but Buono could have asked for it to wait until the end of practice or should have had at least one of his coaches present before the players ended practice and had left the field. This is very laissez fair stuff.

A Head Coach has to deal with the press and media as part of his job. But there is never an interview that Wally will ever turn down or delay. He is a real media and press hound, even though its portrayed as being media accessible.

That's because he is always trying to sell his Kool Aid and pull everyone down into his rabbit hole, where nothing is real or selling the "legend" of Buono.

If he had spent more time making trades and acquiring players as GM, he might have at least done 1/4 of the job that Hervey is doing this season. But Buono rarely traded and not one of his 2017 free agents did anything for us.
“We were out there dancing on their logo and I understand,” said Lumbala, who last season was told before a game by Buono to work up some emotion for his teammates because the coach admitted they had stopped listening. “It’s a city that has a lot of pride and when you do that to any team they’ll take offence.” 3 Down Nation
Thankfully, the 'Buono Farewell Tour' is almost over. I can't wait to bid him farewell at the end of this season but don't be surprised if he comes back again - just out of 'loyalty to Braley', and 'for B.C Lions fans' and also to 'give Ed Hervey the best Head Coach he could ever have', once again.
Again, like I stated in my reply to David: The TSN sitdown is an obligation. Part of the broadcast agreement. Pretty cut and dry. In fact, when we do go to the other team's stadium on the road, its the exact same type of deal as it was on Friday.

Wally will go first, and the on field stuff typically goes on without much or any supervision from him. The coordinators and position coaches take charge of their respective groups. The entire on-field activity lasts about 15-20 minutes. Off the top of my head, we have only gone to the stadium the day before on three of seven road trips so far. And it's been the same every time.

Complaining about Wally not being there really is a useless angle. Reminds me of the Tortorella year with Canucks when this fake outrage started about him not being at morning skates. So what? He showed up, did his media obligations, let the assistants do the on-ice stuff. Pretty common practice.
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