Lions ownership discussion thread (Topics merged into here)

[cromartie]

That offer is now off the table, largely because the two businessmen believe the Lions are a diminishing asset.

So I don't really want new owners that publicly view the franchise as a diminishing asset. If you think it is, that's one thing, to publicly do so tells me you aren't suited for ownership and certainly don't view the franchise from the perspective of a community trust.

If you don't see the Lions as an asset with potential, and aren't willing to say so, you should probably bow out.

[David]

I am not too alarmed by that statement. First, they're not wrong. Second, and more importantly, it is likely just a negotiating ploy to get things moving. The thinking being, if Braley reads it perhaps he will see that he doesn't have as many suitors as he thinks he does. Not at $14MM. I understand the Aquilinis balked at the asking price too.

I would not be surprised if he wants revenues from the next Vancouver Grey Cup as part of the deal.


DH

[Hambone]

At least it will make their butts will look good.

Clearly you need to road trip down here to the American midwest sometime. That fabric doesn't work the miracles you think it does.

Lol. Think Walmartians. Eek!

[Hambone]

I would not be surprised if he wants revenues from the next Vancouver Grey Cup as part of the deal.


DH

10% of something that may not happen for another 4 or 5 years?

[Hambone]

That offer is now off the table, largely because the two businessmen believe the Lions are a diminishing asset.

So I don't really want new owners that publicly view the franchise as a diminishing asset. If you think it is, that's one thing, to publicly do so tells me you aren't suited for ownership and certainly don't view the franchise from the perspective of a community trust.

If you don't see the Lions as an asset with potential, and aren't willing to say so, you should probably bow out.

For the record I did not say that part that shows as being quoted from me. That was something I think Ed Willes said that BC Fan had quoted.

[Toppy Vann]

There is no fear of a CFL franchise today being sold to an ownership group that is highly leveraged with risky investments holdings up the business. The Pezim and crazy days of Stamps and Ottawa Rough Riders ownership won't happen any time soon.

Not sure why the current owner was so pie in the sky with his public expressions of the value of the Lions at the time of this apparent $14 million offer but it seemed excessive then.

Woodall and Keith are clearly astute business people and whoever gets this team needs to bring some highly creative marketing to the cause given the CFL's situation today:

1. Top TSN coverage of all games on TV with Pre-, half time and post game coverage that add an additional disincentive to actually going to the games.

2. The general malaise in the Vancouver market in pro hockey and other sports from actual attendance at games just generally.

Niche marketing to target communities has to the way forward.

[JohnnyMusso]

I have no problem with the prospective new owners being honest in public saying Lions are a diminishing asset. They are and everyone knows it except David Braley it seems. I could not careless if these guys say that in public. I just do not want David Braley to own the team no more. He is running it into the ground and if he really cares about the team he needs to sell. Wally is right he cannot do it anymore and if he hold on to them for another year or more, soon no one will be interested and the team could fold after he dies. Sell, sell sell!!!!

[Blitz]

I have no problem with the prospective new owners being honest in public saying Lions are a diminishing asset. They are and everyone knows it except David Braley it seems. I could not careless if these guys say that in public. I just do not want David Braley to owe the team no more. He is running it into the ground and if he really cares about the team he needs to sell. Wally is right he cannot do it anymore and if he hold on to them for another year or more, soon no one will be interested and the team could fold after he dies. Sell, sell sell!!!!

David Braley was so cheap with the Toronto Argos that it was embarrassing. Meeting rooms at their practice facility were not large enough to fit the team and in one week they used three different practice facilities. They were using curtains as dividers.

Braley's penny pinching ways including slashing many positions, cutting the marketing budget, and the team also did not have the money to sign NFL cuts with CFL experience.

Wally said, at the time, that he was returning to the sidelines in 2016, due to his 'loyalty to David Braley' and to get a winning team on the field to improve attendance. (Later he said he returned as HC, becausebhe wanted more wins and the opportunity to win the Grey Cup)

Well, it didn't work out that way. In Wally's second stint, we onl won one playoff game, were blown out in two others, and also missed the playoffs in 2017. Our last playoff game in Hamilton was the worse loss in Leos playoff history.

There was a time that both Braley and Buono were positive assets for our Leos. But both Braley as owner and Wally as Head Coach stayed with our Leos far too many years past their due date.

In fact, our Leos were better with Benevedes when he had two very experienced coordinators in Stubler and Chapdelaine than Buono with Washington and Khari Jones/Jarious Jackson.

My hope is that Buono will fully retire and will not be an influence with Braley or anyone else in the future.

But I am not so sure the new Head Coach will have full reign.

Will the new Head Coach be able to say goodbye to Jarious Jackson if he wants to? Jackson has a two year contract and our Leos staff (and Jackson himself) were more than willing to throw Jennings, Jeremiah Johnson, and Chris Rainey under a bus to deflect from Jackson's ineptitude. Jackson was also a choice of Hervey as well as Buono.

Don't forget the last time we had a new Head Coach in Tedford, he was told how great Mark Washington was and kept him on staff.

The best thing we could have for 2019 is a new owner and a new Head Coach who can choose all of his assistants. But right now, I'm not confident that is the way things will turn out.

[Hambone]

I have no problem with the prospective new owners being honest in public saying Lions are a diminishing asset. They are and everyone knows it except David Braley it seems. I could not careless if these guys say that in public. I just do not want David Braley to owe the team no more. He is running it into the ground and if he really cares about the team he needs to sell. Wally is right he cannot do it anymore and if he hold on to them for another year or more, soon no one will be interested and the team could fold after he dies. Sell, sell sell!!!!

David Braley was so cheap with the Toronto Argos that it was embarrassing. Meeting rooms at their practice facility were not large enough to fit the team and in one week they used three different practice facilities. They were using curtains as dividers.

Braley's penny pinching ways including slashing many positions, cutting the marketing budget, and the team also did not have the money to sign NFL cuts with CFL experience.

Wally said, at the time, that he was returning to the sidelines in 2016, due to his 'loyalty to David Braley' and to get a winning team on the field to improve attendance. (Later he said he returned as HC, becausebhe wanted more wins and the opportunity to win the Grey Cup)

Well, it didn't work out that way. In Wally's second stint, we onl won one playoff game, were blown out in two others, and also missed the playoffs in 2017. Our last playoff game in Hamilton was the worse loss in Leos playoff history.

There was a time that both Braley and Buono were positive assets for our Leos. But both Braley as owner and Wally as Head Coach stayed with our Leos far too many years past their due date.

In fact, our Leos were better with Benevedes when he had two very experienced coordinators in Stubler and Chapdelaine than Buono with Washington and Khari Jones/Jarious Jackson.

My hope is that Buono will fully retire and will not be an influence with Braley or anyone else in the future.

But I am not so sure the new Head Coach will have full reign.

Will the new Head Coach be able to say goodbye to Jarious Jackson if he wants to? Jackson has a two year contract and our Leos staff (and Jackson himself) were more than willing to throw Jennings, Jeremiah Johnson, and Chris Rainey under a bus to deflect from Jackson's ineptitude. Jackson was also a choice of Hervey as well as Buono.

Don't forget the last time we had a new Head Coach in Tedford, he was told how great Mark Washington was and kept him on staff.

The best thing we could have for 2019 is a new owner and a new Head Coach who can choose all of his assistants. But right now, I'm not confident that is the way things will turn out.

Yup everybody got upset with Braley because he didn't invest multi-millions in the Argos. Maybe if his plan was to own them for 20 years instead of 5, which was 2 more than he really expected to be involved, he might have done more. I even read where some of his critics were dumping on him because he didn't built them a new stadium. It was never his intent to own them even as long as he did. He only bought them as a means to protect the loans he gave the previous owners to keep them operating, save the league from having to run them or fold them and basically keep the lights on and bills paid until somebody like the group that did eventually buy them would. And until the stadium situation was resolved they were unsellable even for $1.

The other CFL owners had a big say and could've rejected the sale to Braley but they didn't. Transfer of ownership requires minimum 75% approval by other owners. It would only require 2 other ownership groups to reject Braley's bid (I assume BC would have to abstain in a vote) and the sale would not have gone through. The reason they didn't was because they knew it would mean they would be left holding the bag to operate the Argos and they knew that was going to be a multi-year commitment that wouldn't be resolved until the stadium situation was resolved. They opted for the Braley option as the lesser of 3 evils with the other 2 being them paying the bills for years to come or folding the Argos leaving a big hole in the biggest market where most of corporate Canada (read sponsors) are based. If you think Braley penny-pinched imagine what it would have been like if the CFL had to operate it at least possible cost to the other owners.

As for not having money for NFL cuts with CFL experience it's a shame that wasn't true. Ricky Foley would have wound up in BC when he was still in his prime instead of several years later with nothing but fumes left in his tank.

Wally has already publicly stated that he will not be involved in any aspect of what the Lions do moving forward. He is fully retired and more or less said it would be wrong for him to stick his nose in anywhere. I suspect if Hervey wants any thoughts on possible candidates he's already long ago picked Wally's brain. They've only had 11 months to do that so it's not like there is anything Buono might pass on today that Hervey didn't know months ago.

[DanoT]

^^^Great post Hambone. I absolutely agree that Braley paid the Argo's bills and ran the team on a very tight budget just as the league would have likely done if they were running the team. So really he did what the other teams did not want to do themselves but they were happy to have Braley looking after the Argo's expenses.

[Blitz]

Why did Braley secretly loan money to Hamilton first and then the Argos?

Braley only bought the Argos after his secret loans to the team were made public.

For Braley, it was always about money making. Nothing wrong with that. He is a businessman. Its just that things did not turn out, as he anticipated they would.

[KnowItAll]

For Braley, it was always about money making.

I don't think so. Plenty of ways to get much better return than investing in the CFL.

[BC 1988]

^^^Great post Hambone. I absolutely agree that Braley paid the Argo's bills and ran the team on a very tight budget just as the league would have likely done if they were running the team. So really he did what the other teams did not want to do themselves but they were happy to have Braley looking after the Argo's expenses.

I second that. Hambone explains very well what Braley's motivation--and the other owners for approving his ownership--was with the Argos (it sure wasn't to make money--he actually does care about the survival of the CFL).

[Toppy Vann]

For Braley, it was always about money making.

I don't think so. Plenty of ways to get much better return than investing in the CFL.

Braley's desire to keep the CFL whole and working is what motivated him.

KIA is right. Better ways to make $$$ than a football team.

[Hambone]

Why did Braley secretly loan money to Hamilton first and then the Argos?

Braley only bought the Argos after his secret loans to the team were made public.

For Braley, it was always about money making. Nothing wrong with that. He is a businessman. Its just that things did not turn out, as he anticipated they would.

I'm unaware of any loans to Hamilton and would be happy to read about it if links exist. I am fully aware that he dld purchase the Ticats and own them for 3 years thus saving them from what had become the embarrassment of being owned by Harold Ballard at his most senile. Is it possible these loans you speak of happened in support of the Ticats when they went back to community ownership after Braley?

Add them up and he:
1) Got the CFL off the hook for BC who had to operate the Lions for a few months after Skalbania walked away from them.
2) Saved the CFL from being left holding the bag over the Argos.
3) Rescued the Ticats from Harold Ballard's greasy mitts. Now if you want to talk about doing things for money Pal Hal is a classic example.