Leos/Calgary Post Game Thoughts

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Blitz
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Hambone wrote:
I have seen this movie though many times before over the past 25 years. The Lions always seem to serve up their biggest turkeys in those games where they have a great opportunity to really draw the attention of the market place towards them. They really could've sent a message to the market at a time when the summertime rival Whitecaps are floundering badly and quickly fading out of any playoff contention.
Our Leos gained an average of just 3.1 yards on first down. The Stampeders’ median on first plays from scrimmage was more than double that — 7.4 yards.

Calgary's offence was in a very favorable position on most second down attempts all night. The opposite was true for our offence. The percentages go way down when your offence is in second and long for most of the game.

The Stamps really controlled the time of possession in both halves - close to 18 minutes for each half. Eliminian and Bighill had 20 tackles between them while no Calgary defender had more than four tackles as Calgary stretched out and tired out our linebackers horizontally with their throws to the flats.

Calgary sacked our quarterbacks three times and pressured and hurried Jennings and Lulay for most of the game. Bo Levi Mitchell had the football out of his hands quickly on most plays. That was good game planning by Calgary who knew our Leos came into the game with the CFL's leading sack total.

The worst things about this game were how we lost and also the injury to Stephen Clarke. We've lost some big games, especially playoff games, in B.C. during the Buono era. But we are trying to win back the fan base and also bring in new fans. This kind of embarrassing loss at home, in a feature game, was the last thing we needed. It wasn't just two points we lost.

Stephen Clarke, replacing T.J. Lee, has been outstanding. He could be gone for the season with a torn ACL. Replacing a boundary halfback is the most difficult position to replace in the secondary.

Winnipeg and Edmonton are only one game behind us in the standings now. We came into this game with a great shot at first place in the West. If we don't get it back together we could be fighting for a playoff spot. Its not how you start the season but how you finish in the CFL.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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CardiacKid
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I don't think a Lion's hand touched Mitchell all night long....except during the post-game handshakes. Without resorting to check the stats, I honestly don't recall any Leo touching, bumping, hurrying, worrying BLM all night long. Reminded of me a little of Danny McManus.

When the defence plays a full quarter+ of extra football in comparison to the offense...well, my heart goes out to those guys. They simply got worn down.

I haven't heard on the status of Clarke but based on how he went down and was carted off the field, who is going to replace the replacement. I hope Purifoy isn't shifted out of the linebacking corps, he has been excellent this year.
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JohnHenry
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I was surprised by the Stamps pass rush, even rushing only 3 they got through the line and disrupted the QB's timing. It's funny how good a team can look in one game, then how crappy the next game? I guess it mostly boils down to the competition. The Stamps are certainly the class of the league, with machine-like precision in all facets of the game under Dickenson's guidance. Then again, Montreal looked like the Bad News Bears last week, then this week like Grey Cup contenders against Ottawa? Teams seem to be swinging from rotten to golden from week to week.
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Sir Purrcival
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Oh well on the lighter side, the Riders just got trounced 54-7 by the team we beat last week. Their forum isn't in a happy place right now either.
Tell me how long must a fan be strong? Ans. Always.
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CardiacKid
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Oh well on the lighter side, the Riders just got trounced 54-7 by the team we beat last week. Their forum isn't in a happy place right now either.
That news lifts the spirits. I would love to hop on Riderfans and contribute to the love but they won't even let me join.

Let me guess, the conspiracy theories this week extend to blaming the Hip for performing their final concert at the same time? Therefore distracting the players?

Speaking of distracted, the Leo's played like they were distracted, discombobulated, disengaged... Don't know if they were expecting more support in the stands or if they were caught in the hype of it being the rubber match with the team that supposedly stands between them and first. The game in between their ears seemed to lack focus.
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WestCoastJoe
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Oh well on the lighter side, the Riders just got trounced 54-7 by the team we beat last week. Their forum isn't in a happy place right now either.
This CFL fan is surprised by the sad state of Jones' team. Did the arrogant coach get even more impressed with himself winning so fast in Edmonton?

I expect there is a lot of buyer's remorse in Regina.

What a pity? Ha ha
........

Re Friday night ...

Did Wally go all the way back to total conservatism in his philosophy? It kind of looks like it. Ultra soft zone defence. No midgame adjustments. Lack of pressure on the QB. Predictable offence. Lack of specific, detailed planning for a particular opponent. Rolling out the same old, same old can flatten a team's morale.

I hope not. I hope it was more of a one off. Bad game. On to the next.

Is the OL product more of what we have seen from Dan Dorazio over the years? Including many periods of poor run blocking, poor pass protection, and player confusion.

How fast did Kirby Fabien regress?

How fast did Hunter Steward hit the skids?

Has Charles Vaillancourt already experienced confusion as an OL In this system?

Adcock for Johnson? O'Neill for Steward?
........

Too early for these reflections? Nah. In pro sports you are as good as your last game.

Detailed planning is the modus operandi in the CFL these days. MW and Khari can do it. So do it. (Dave D sure did it with the Stampeders. It is a chess game.)

Just IMO ... Others will see it differently.
........

Great work, Blitz. :thup:

Thanks for the great input, Guys. :thup:
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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Hambone
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WestCoastJoe wrote:Has Charles Vaillancourt already experienced confusion as an OL In this system?
Lol. Maybe Vaillancourt didn't really suffer a concussion but merely started displaying concussion-like symptoms from absorbing Dorazio's schemes. :wink:

Signs and symptoms of a concussion may include:

•Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head.
•Temporary loss of consciousness.
•Confusion or feeling as if in a fog.
•Amnesia surrounding the traumatic event.
•Dizziness or "seeing stars"
•Ringing in the ears.
•Nausea.
•Vomiting.
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WestCoastJoe
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Hambone wrote:
WestCoastJoe wrote:Has Charles Vaillancourt already experienced confusion as an OL In this system?
Lol. Maybe Vaillancourt didn't really suffer a concussion but merely started displaying concussion-like symptoms from absorbing Dorazio's schemes. :wink:

Signs and symptoms of a concussion may include:

•Headache or a feeling of pressure in the head.
•Temporary loss of consciousness.
•Confusion or feeling as if in a fog.
•Amnesia surrounding the traumatic event.
•Dizziness or "seeing stars"
•Ringing in the ears.
•Nausea.
•Vomiting.
Ha ha ... Wasn't Vaillancourt wondering how he lost his position to injury? And might he also be wondering if he lost his position due to performance issues, when he seemed to be doing so very well after training camp and through the games until his concussion?

Or is this just Dan moving guys around, experimenting, so to speak, working in the lab?

Our OL had a good start to the year. Very promising. We have depth and talent. But the performance has slipped. As noted, less focus by me on OL issues this year. This will probably be be the last comment on Dan and the OL for a while.
..........

Now about that conservative, overall approach to the game ... If that keeps up, it will no doubt be a bigger issue.
John Madden's Team Policies: Be on time. Pay attention. Play like hell on game day.

Jimmy Johnson's Game Keys: Protect the ball. Make plays.

Walter Payton's Advice to Kids: Play hard. Play fair. Have fun.
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DanoT
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CardiacKid wrote:
Sir Purrcival wrote:Oh well on the lighter side, the Riders just got trounced 54-7 by the team we beat last week. Their forum isn't in a happy place right now either.
That news lifts the spirits. I would love to hop on Riderfans and contribute to the love but they won't even let me join.

Let me guess, the conspiracy theories this week extend to blaming the Hip for performing their final concert at the same time? Therefore distracting the players?

Speaking of distracted, the Leo's played like they were distracted, discombobulated, disengaged... Don't know if they were expecting more support in the stands or if they were caught in the hype of it being the rubber match with the team that supposedly stands between them and first. The game in between their ears seemed to lack focus.
I got banned from Riderfans for a reason-piling on. heh heh, but are you saying that they are no longer accepting new members even if you don't post?

Even some of those veteran posters at Riderfans are overly optimistic and not realistic. One guy with over 78k posts, two games ago (1-5) after getting beat the first time by the Stamps was saying he still expects 8 or 9 wins by season's end. And wasn't alone in that belief. :shock: :dizzy: :dizzy:
TheLionKing
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Sir Purrcival wrote:Oh well on the lighter side, the Riders just got trounced 54-7 by the team we beat last week. Their forum isn't in a happy place right now either.
Not always greener on the other side. Wonder if Jones is regretting leaving Edmonton ?
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Sir Purrcival
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Last I looked, there there is a strong undercurrent of buyers remorse growing but among those who aren't calling for his head, the sense is "who could we hire?'" that would make a difference at this point anyway? Not to mention there are some referring to the contract that Jones has. $750 g's or something like that. There are even a few who are calling this the worst Rider team ever and they do have some historically bad eras to make the comparison with. They are certainly at an all time low. If it was most other teams, I might actually have some sense of sympathy but there have been a few too many "We are the best franchise", "Canada's #1 2nd favourite team" utterances the last few years for me to feel that way. You reap what you sow. Many thought that they bought their way to the 2013 Grey Cup at the expense of their future. The last 3 seasons seem to have borne out that prediction.
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SammyGreene
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WestCoastJoe wrote: Ha ha ... Wasn't Vaillancourt wondering how he lost his position to injury? And might he also be wondering if he lost his position due to performance issues, when he seemed to be doing so very well after training camp and through the games until his concussion?

Or is this just Dan moving guys around, experimenting, so to speak, working in the lab?

Our OL had a good start to the year. Very promising. We have depth and talent. But the performance has slipped. As noted, less focus by me on OL issues this year. This will probably be be the last comment on Dan and the OL for a while.
That must have taken tremendous restraint on your behalf WestCoast Joe given the bizarre use of Vaillancourt and Steward already! lol

A walk down memory lane sees the Lions elated to get Vaillancourt 5th overall in draft, saying he was their No. 1 pick all along and "most ready" to play. Has an outstanding training camp and beats out Fabian for starting position. Lions win both games with him in line-up but he suffers a concussion in Hamilton. Was green lighted to return 2 weeks ago but wasn't activated until Friday in a back-up role to Fabian. Vaillancourt confused on how he was demoted.

Then there's Steward...

Great handling of your two best young linemen. Sure there will be growing pains with both of them but let them develop and realize their potential.
Blitz
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WestCoastJoe wrote:
Re Friday night ...

Did Wally go all the way back to total conservatism in his philosophy? It kind of looks like it. Ultra soft zone defence. No midgame adjustments. Lack of pressure on the QB. Predictable offence. Lack of specific, detailed planning for a particular opponent. Rolling out the same old, same old can flatten a team's morale.

I hope not. I hope it was more of a one off. Bad game. On to the next.

Is the OL product more of what we have seen from Dan Dorazio over the years? Including many periods of poor run blocking, poor pass protection, and player confusion.

How fast did Kirby Fabien regress?

How fast did Hunter Steward hit the skids?

Has Charles Vaillancourt already experienced confusion as an OL In this system?

Adcock for Johnson? O'Neill for Steward?
........

Too early for these reflections? Nah. In pro sports you are as good as your last game.

Detailed planning is the modus operandi in the CFL these days. MW and Khari can do it. So do it. (Dave D sure did it with the Stampeders. It is a chess game.)

quote]
Football is a chess game. It's the sport with the most complex strategies. Its so much more than blocking, tackling, passing, receiving, kicking, and returning. Football is so complex because every play is planned over and over again. Football is the only game game that has only set plays, so therefore the highest level of planning is required.

As with every team sport, talent is important. Motivation and team discipline play are factors in winning. The quarterback position is crucial for executing each offensive play and the options within each play. All specialized positions play a role within a team sport. But in no other team sport does coaching, offensive and defensive systems, game planning, and play calling play as important a role as in football.

In the CFL, the talent level between most teams is not significantly different. On any Friday or Saturday night, most teams can beat another.

Videotape and advanced statistics enable teams to study the tendencies of their opposition and also their own tendencies. Knowing the tendencies of the opposing team is an advantage, sometimes a significant advantage.

When a football team like our B.C. Lions has used the same offensive playbook since late 2004 with some minor variations, it becomes predictable. In fact we have been a predictable team for a long time. Its been a factor in why we've suffered so many playoff losses, when we had more talent for most of those playoff games. A quarterback like a Jonathan Jennings may attack more often downfield than say a Travis Lulay did in 2013 or a Kevin Glenn did in 2014, but both were executing the same plays. Jeremiah Johnson is still running the same inside zone read play, with zone blacking as Andrew Harris did during his time in B.C.

The best teams are always changing or adding wrinkles to their schemes. Take the Calgary game. Play action to their tailback froze our linebacker. Calgary receivers cleared out. Rob Cote, Calgary's fullback, went in motion inside, then stepped back outside to block, and then slipped out to the flat and was wide open.

The best coaches don't stay married to a philosophy for too long. We've had the same basic philosophy on offence since 2004. The best examples of teams that have been successful because they did not stay married to an offensive philosophy for too long are John Hufnagel of the Calgary Stampeders and Bill Bellicheck of the New England Patriots.

John Hufnagel introduced the spread offence to the CFL as an offensive coordinator in Calgary. It was a pass first offence. But after returning to the CFL as Head Coach and GM of Calgary, in 2008, Hufnagel's offence became built around a successful running attack, with power backs such as Reynods and Cornish making life difficult. Calgary made variations to its passing attack every season. Dave Dickenson, as offensive coordinator of Calgary said “When I first came in the league, I had this opinion that he was a trendsetter. He was very creative offensively, and he was coming up with new ideas. “I don’t think anything has changed now I’m working with him as a coach.”

Bill Belichick's ability to adapt is his defining trait as a Head Coach. That includes changing the plan during a game, during a season and during the team-building phase of the offseason.They are a game plan football team, looking for smart, versatile players that can help the team to shapeshift on a weekly basis depending on their opponent. They adjust their offensive philosophy to their personnel more than any other team in the NFL.

In 2004 they won the SuperBowl as a power running team behind Corey Dillon. In 2005 they were a pass first team out of pro sets. In 2007 they introduced the spread offence and bombed away. In 2008 they were a ball control offence. In 2010 they became a two tight end team with Hernandez and Gronkowski. In 2012, they created problems for NFL defenses unprepared for their hurry up temp offence. They were back to being a power running offence in 2013. In 2014 and 2015 they came out of the shotgun and used a lot of direct snaps under center and employed a lot of single tight end, spreading Gronkowski out wide often for advantageous matchups.

In B.C. for almost a decade and a half, with the exception of 2007 and the variations of 2011/2012, we've used a cookie cutter approach. Have a mobile quarterback like a Printers, a Pierce, a Lulay, or a Jennings, and we still kept them or keep them in a pocket passing spread offence.

The salary cap changed things in the CFL. Coaching became even more important. Calgary was successful due to the work of Hufnagel. Trestmann inmovated in Montreal. Kent Austin changed Hamilton's fortunes. Ottawa went from a struggling expansion team to a very competitive team playing in the Grey Cup after one season under Rich Campbell.

Buono brings presence as a Head Coach. Jonathan Jennings is a young talent at quarterback. We have a lot of very good players on this Leos team. We got off to an excellent start this season. But if we want to be a consistent winner, we just can't out execute the opposition. It takes more than that to win regularly in today's CFL.
"When I went to Catholic high school in Philadelphia, we just had one coach for football and basketball. He took all of us who turned out and had us run through a forest. The ones who ran into the trees were on the football team". (George Raveling)
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Have you noticed that after playing the Stamps 4 times this year they have steadily progressed faster than the Lions ? In about 8 weeks time they went from losing to us to absolutely owning us in our own stadium. That is proof of better coaching and player selection. And they are not going to get worse. My wife and i went to the last Ti-cats game after driving down from the Kootenays. We were absolutey thoroughly entertained and loved the experience like we do every year when we take in a game. For the life of me i cannot understand why there isnt 35,000 out to every game. World class stadium and a team with a rich history of producing. The Canuck's should be the ones suffering at the turnstiles as their reward for decades of mediocrity. Every chance i get i remind friends and family in Vancouver to ditch the Nuck's and embrace the Lion's.
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Mike Beamish offers some insights into the coaching battle and difference in intensity of the two teams in the Sunday Province:
As bright as his future appears to be, Jonathon Jennings has yet to complete a full CFL season (Friday was his 14th career start) and there will be growing pains for the 24-year-old Lions quarterback. Friday was one of those nights.

“That’s what we were trying to expose,” said Stampeders’ defensive end Charleston Hughes. “He’s still a young quarterback. We were trying to force him into decisions … to make bad decisions, really. He didn’t want to make a turnover. He didn’t want to make a bad play. We forced him into not making a play at all.”
“They did a good job on me,” Jennings said. “They did a good job of stopping what we were trying to do. The biggest thing is we have to come out better as a team, and not be so flat. We have to come out every week and do everything we can to win. When a team comes out and scores on its first drive, it’s shocking. At the same time, you’ve got to respond. That’s something we’ve got to be better at next time.”
The team’s “all-access” television crew caught the nub of the matter at halftime. Down by eight, coach Wally Buono reminded his team the game remained winnable. But … “you’re walking around too much,” he said. “You know what that tells me? That you’re not interested. They’re (Calgary) not that good. Don’t make them better than they are. That team there wants to win. You’re just going through the motions.”
“They just took us — the whole D-line — out of the game,” explained nose tackle Bryant Turner. “He (Mitchell) was just standing back there, with all kinds of time to throw the ball quickly. It was dangerous to blitz, because we would have left a man open. The CFL is a momentum game. I felt like, from the first snap, they had the momentum. And we were struggling the whole game, trying to to keep up.”
Lions looking shockingly disengaged in 37-9 defeat to the Stampeders
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