Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

SammyGreene wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:19 am
Sadly I'm sure there are some hosts at Sportsnet 650 that are now looking over their shoulders about their jobs knowing it was the station with the higher ratings that had the plug pulled.
They also have to be looking over their shoulders at the suddenly unemployed TSN1040 talent pool. Like a CFL team radio stations aren't at all shy about making a change if they see a free agent available who might be an upgrade over who they already have.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Belize City Lion wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:36 am To be brutally honest, much of the on-air roster at 650 is weak compared to what 1040 had.
This I agree with.

Also, if Bell really gave a crap they would make the hard changes, perhaps forcing higher-priced talent into retirement, raising advertising fees, or airing more hours of low-cost syndication shows. Something. But not sh*t-can an entire station. That's like taking a weed-wacker to an overgrown blade of grass.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

David wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:26 pm
Belize City Lion wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:36 am To be brutally honest, much of the on-air roster at 650 is weak compared to what 1040 had.
This I agree with.

Also, if Bell really gave a crap they would make the hard changes, perhaps forcing higher-priced talent into retirement, raising advertising fees, or airing more hours of low-cost syndication shows. Something. But not sh*t-can an entire station. That's like taking a weed-wacker to an overgrown blade of grass.


DH :cool:
I had the same thought. It wasn’t long ago that 1040 was running the syndicated Jim Rome and Dan Patrick shows in the daytime and ESPN programming in the evenings on non-game nights. I preferred the broader sports coverage to the more recent Canucks-centric programming with two high-priced local co-hosts at non-peak hours throughout the day.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 2:06 pm
David wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:26 pm
Belize City Lion wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:36 am To be brutally honest, much of the on-air roster at 650 is weak compared to what 1040 had.
This I agree with.

Also, if Bell really gave a crap they would make the hard changes, perhaps forcing higher-priced talent into retirement, raising advertising fees, or airing more hours of low-cost syndication shows. Something. But not sh*t-can an entire station. That's like taking a weed-wacker to an overgrown blade of grass.


DH :cool:
I had the same thought. It wasn’t long ago that 1040 was running the syndicated Jim Rome and Dan Patrick shows in the daytime and ESPN programming in the evenings on non-game nights. I preferred the broader sports coverage to the more recent Canucks-centric programming with two high-priced local co-hosts at non-peak hours throughout the day.
At work 20 years ago I always had my computer tuned mostly into Fan590 and occasionally Team1040 all day long. McCown's show was destination listening for me mostly because his focus was more on the business of sports and less on the jocks regardless of whether they played for a local Toronto team or not. Also listened religiously to now Argo PxP guy Mike Hogan's "Bullpen" show in the mid morning. I think I may have tuned into 1040 when I arrived in the office at 7:30 then switched to Hogan's show when it came on. For sure I didn't listen to Rome or Patrick's shows. When they came on that was the signal tto flip back to 590.

I suppose it's easy for us to criticize the move but does anybody actually have the numbers? I can't imagine Bell dumping the station if it was profitable. Syndication shows would certainly be inexpensive compared to the requirements to produce a live studio broadcast. However I think what makes a station like 1040 fly in terms of listeners is the fact they focus on local teams that the listener has emotional attachments. It's much easier to capture an audience when spending most of the airtime talking about teams the local market is invested in versus syndicated programs what would rarely, if ever, mention any Vancouver teams.

I do wonder if what we're seeing isn't the continued evolution of media. It was all print and radio until the 50s. The internet came along in the early 90s. Beat reporters have been replaced by bloggers. Print is rapidly in decline to where I think that actual newspapers will cease to exist within a decade. A big reason behind that is that advertisers don't spend the amount of money needed for them to survive. Once upon a time if we were thinking about buying a product or service we'd buy a paper and peruse the ads. In this era everybody does that research online. Businesses from large corporations down to smaill retail outlets rely on their websites to get that info out in a more efficient and inexpensive method. I would think radio stations are also finding it far more difficult to generate advertising revenues due to the same thing. Raise advertising rates? Will that generate more revenue? Or force more businesses away from radio advertising?

As mentioned I think newspapers will be gone the way of the dodo bird within a decade. With these 1040 announcements is it possible we are seeing something similar catching up to radio? When Jeffrey Orridge was Commish he sat down with Jay Janower for an interview on Global. I remember nothing about the interview except for one comment Orridge made which was (paraphrasing here) something to the effect of "things are evolving. We as a league have to recognize that the way people are consuming their media content is changing and we need to adapt". To me it was acknowledgement that the CFL had to recognize that the old ways of us old farts getting our content (print, radio and TV) were changing and evolving and not looking back. Are we seeing signs of that in radio now?
Last edited by Hambone on Wed Feb 10, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

I have to agree on many of the comments regarding 1040...

they talked Canucks almost all the time. and they were into 4th line type trivial matters. or Jake Virtanen 24/7.

and if not Canucks, they talked non-sports. if they talked NFL it was often with mediocre knowledge (my knowledge is not even mediocre. it's worse). but I want to listen to experts.

I much prefer ESPN or "Sporting News Radio" content....... I just don't think there's enough to talk about sports-wise locally in Vancouver. one big league team vs. 4 in many USA cities (plus NCAA football and basketball)........

local content is fine for some part of the day. but I don't see the need in having highly paid, big name commentators. in fact, I think I prefer lesser known hosts... I do like Don Taylor. but that's about it. I don't dislike others. just indifferent.. Andrew Watton too was/is good. partially because he has a lot of substance.

I don't even know the other channel... 590? 650?... but I'll give it a try........... one thing to keep in mind is people just listen to ESPN online these days anyway.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Bob McCown was a brilliant radio show.. I know it from national feed. but I also lived in Toronto a long time... pat Marsden and gord stellick were really good too. but again, they had substance. very knowledgable guys.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

what happened to CKNW? in the 80's and before, it was a powerhouse station.

now it just seems to be another station..................... self-inflicted or times changed?... I'm thinking more "times change"


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

I can accept that TSN 1040 was unprofitable as a niche station in a big market. TSN 1040 ranked 16th of 19 stations in the Vancouver market in the latest ratings with an average audience of 2,500 while Sportsnet 650 ranked dead last with an average audience of 400. Market leader CKNW had an average audience of over 14,000. Still, 1040's audience was about six times larger than that of Sportsnet 650, and it had been gaining market share overall. If Sportsnet 650 didn't have the Canucks rights, its owner Rogers might have pulled the plug just as Bell did to 1040. Here's the most recent analysis of the local sports radio market from Patrick Johnston of The Province in December:

Radio Wars: TSN 1040 morning show keeps gaining strength


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Typical radio business way of doing business: do a format change with no advance notice or hint and no official announcement. Then carry on with the new format as if the past never existed.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

DanoT wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:54 pm Typical radio business way of doing business: do a format change with no advance notice or hint and no official announcement. Then carry on with the new format as if the past never existed.
It's a bit difficult for something as public as a radio station to make changes to format or shutter a station on anything but short notice. Bad enough when things like that happen in a normal workplace. A disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind, a microphone in his hand and an audience tuned into his show could really cut loose publicly on his soon to be former employer if he's given notice ahead of time.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

B.C.FAN wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:44 pm I can accept that TSN 1040 was unprofitable as a niche station in a big market. TSN 1040 ranked 16th of 19 stations in the Vancouver market in the latest ratings with an average audience of 2,500 while Sportsnet 650 ranked dead last with an average audience of 400. Market leader CKNW had an average audience of over 14,000. Still, 1040's audience was about six times larger than that of Sportsnet 650, and it had been gaining market share overall. If Sportsnet 650 didn't have the Canucks rights, its owner Rogers might have pulled the plug just as Bell did to 1040. Here's the most recent analysis of the local sports radio market from Patrick Johnston of The Province in December:

Radio Wars: TSN 1040 morning show keeps gaining strength
Those are really dire numbers for SN 650. I just completed a 2nd day of forcing myself to pay attention to the boring drivel on there and I'm not sure how much more I can take of it . I think the Reach Deep slot has to be the worst, followed closely by The Program (Walker acknowledged all the new listeners at the outset of his show today--he is getting a lot of 1040 refugees who are not shy about letting him know how much they think he sucks). I can't really comment about The Starting Lineup since they are gone by 9am (like Bro Jake was). Rintoul is tolerable--mainly because I'm familiar with him from his years with 1040.

On the topic of SN 650's only reason they exist--Canucks broadcast rights--Brendan Batchelor is far inferior to the days when Shorthouse had the radio gig. He completes the overall bland malaise that afflicts that station. They deserve to be dead last in the ratings, and I doubt the dead cat bounce of inherited 1040 listeners will help them much in this market with their current lineup.
Last edited by BC 1988 on Thu Feb 11, 2021 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Hambone wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 8:55 pm
DanoT wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:54 pm Typical radio business way of doing business: do a format change with no advance notice or hint and no official announcement. Then carry on with the new format as if the past never existed.
It's a bit difficult for something as public as a radio station to make changes to format or shutter a station on anything but short notice. Bad enough when things like that happen in a normal workplace. A disgruntled former employee with an axe to grind, a microphone in his hand and an audience tuned into his show could really cut loose publicly on his soon to be former employer if he's given notice ahead of time.
Exactly. Bell made the decision that the brutal method of exterminating 1040 and wiping out all evidence that they had even existed was the best course of action.

So far the axed employees are resisting the urge to badmouth the company--Trevor Martins (T-Mart) is being the most creative in his restrained criticism. It's a good strategy to take the high road with a mind to getting back into the industry as soon as opportunities present themselves. Blake Price will probably be the first back since he already has a lot of sports commentator history with TSN. The Moj with his Lions gig may have an edge when the CFL gets going again.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

I don't expect to hear much badmouthing from former employees. There will be negotiations between employees and Bell for severance payments which could be in jeopardy if badmouthing occurs. Even if the radio personalities are contractors (as opposed to salaried employees), there is likely some termination language in their contracts that provides the basis for settlements and there will be very little appetite for new contracts from other media if badmouthing occurs.


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Another thought, does anyone know if the radio rights for the upcoming season are still held by TSN 1040 with the Lions and the Whitecaps or have they have expired for 2021. JC Abbott re-tweeted a notation that TSN Vancouver and Hamilton hold the CFL rights and usually the rights continue even during format changes. Just wondering.....


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Re: Lions in the local media (REVIVED thread 6-10-20)

Dusty wrote: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:49 am Another thought, does anyone know if the radio rights for the upcoming season are still held by TSN 1040 with the Lions and the Whitecaps or have they have expired for 2021. JC Abbott re-tweeted a notation that TSN Vancouver and Hamilton hold the CFL rights and usually the rights continue even during format changes. Just wondering.....
Neil McEvoy was asked that question yesterday during a wide-ranging interview with Marty Hastings of Kamloops This Week. TSN 1040 held the Lions' rights through 2022 but McEvoy said he doesn't know what happens next.
KTW: Among those ramifications for the Lions, is you had a deal with them through 2022, to be the official broadcaster. Now, they’re not there. What’s next for the Lions from a rights-holder standpoint?
NM: We just have to bunker down. This is such an early start of the process. We’re all shocked it happened. But I don’t necessarily know what the fine print is for the rights holders. TSN 1040 was a Bell Media corporation and, of course, Bell is still in existence. Again, I didn’t negotiate the contract, so I’m not really sure what the next step is, but I do know we are proud of our media property and we’re proud of what we give, so going forward we’ll have something, hopefully, so our fans can listen to us.

KTW: Would Sportsnet 650 be an option for the club if nothing works out with Bell?
NM: Again, I’m not sure. That’s a question for once we get closer to the starting date and a little bit further away from what happened yesterday. It’s all so fresh that it’s tough to speculate on what the next step is for everybody. (Commentator) Giulio Caravatta is an alumni of ours. He’s now out. So there are a lot of people who are still looking for jobs, I just don’t think … we don’t have the answers yet. That’s the easy answer, but we simply don’t. It’s just so early in the process.
B.C. Lions' co-GM McEvoy talks sad day for TSN 1040, broadcast rights, camp in Kamloops, Elimimian


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